Religion and LGBT Issues

[The East Marches]

What is the real world reason that should prevent me from doing so other than "muh feelings"? You are trying to dodge right now. Just answer the question.

No I'm not fucking dodging. Can you actually validate your scenario by saying how you would do this without harming society?
You say that the law would back you doing this? Are you saying the law is corrupt? Then that harms society.
Are you saying the law is malevolent? Time for a fucking revolution.

Yes you are dodging. You've proved my point that your "ethics" are nothing more than Christian morals dressed up. You refuse to answer the question. What is wrong with murder if I can get away with it and not harm society? You refuse to answer this question because in the end you have no answer. Its just "muh feelings".

[Genivaria]

Debunk what?

Well, that proves that it's origin is in a religious text, specifically, the story of The Eloquent Peasant.

Not really since it's 'origin' is across the world in places unconnected to each other.
"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." — Confucius[14](c. 500 BC)
What you do not want to happen to you, do not do it yourself either. " – Sextus the Pythagorean.

Not only is it false to claim that it has a religious 'origin' it is also false to claim that there is only one origin.
That's like claiming that clearly the Mayans learned Pyramid building from the Egyptians because there can only be one origin, so by your logic the Mayan pyramids are just Egyptian rip-offs.

[Genivaria]

No I'm not fucking dodging. Can you actually validate your scenario by saying how you would do this without harming society?
You say that the law would back you doing this? Are you saying the law is corrupt? Then that harms society.
Are you saying the law is malevolent? Time for a fucking revolution.

Yes you are dodging. You've proved my point that your "ethics" are nothing more than Christian morals dressed up. You refuse to answer the question. What is wrong with murder if I can get away with it and not harm society? You refuse to answer this question because in the end you have no answer. Its just "muh feelings".

Your continued assertions don't prove anything.

I did answer your question, you simply can't give your scenario any grounding.
And yet you accuse ME of dodging

[United Marxist Nations]

Well, that proves that it's origin is in a religious text, specifically, the story of The Eloquent Peasant.

Not really since it's 'origin' is across the world in places unconnected to each other.
"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." — Confucius[14](c. 500 BC)
What you do not want to happen to you, do not do it yourself either. " – Sextus the Pythagorean.

Not only is it false to claim that it has a religious 'origin' it is also false to claim that there is only one origin.
That's like claiming that clearly the Mayans learned Pyramid building from the Egyptians because there can only be one origin, so by your logic the Mayan pyramids are just Egyptian rip-offs.

Confucianism is religious, it believes in harmony with Heaven, as well as ancestor and spirit-worship.

Greece was undoubtedly connected with ancient Egypt, and, more obviously, the Near-East, where the Golden Rule was also practiced.

[Southerly Gentleman]

Well, that proves that it's origin is in a religious text, specifically, the story of The Eloquent Peasant.

Not only is it false to claim that it has a religious 'origin' it is also false to claim that there is only one origin.
That's like claiming that clearly the Mayans learned Pyramid building from the Egyptians because there can only be one origin, so by your logic the Mayan pyramids are just Egyptian rip-offs.

How is that at all like what he's saying? Pyramids are a very effective way to build primitive structures, so they were found in several civilizations. Similarly, morality has its origins in religion, so similar moral codes were found in disparate places.

[Genivaria]

Not really since it's 'origin' is across the world in places unconnected to each other.
"Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself." — Confucius[14](c. 500 BC)
What you do not want to happen to you, do not do it yourself either. " – Sextus the Pythagorean.

Not only is it false to claim that it has a religious 'origin' it is also false to claim that there is only one origin.
That's like claiming that clearly the Mayans learned Pyramid building from the Egyptians because there can only be one origin, so by your logic the Mayan pyramids are just Egyptian rip-offs.

Confucianism is religious, it believes in harmony with Heaven, as well as ancestor and spirit-worship.

Greece was undoubtedly connected with ancient Egypt, and, more obviously, the Near-East, where the Golden Rule was also practiced.

Really reaching there aren't we.

[The East Marches]

Yes you are dodging. You've proved my point that your "ethics" are nothing more than Christian morals dressed up. You refuse to answer the question. What is wrong with murder if I can get away with it and not harm society? You refuse to answer this question because in the end you have no answer. Its just "muh feelings".

I did answer your question, you simply can't give your scenario any grounding.
Your continued assertions don't prove anything.

Sure they do. That bereft of utility stuff, you can't provide any grounding why murder is universally bad. If it provides utility or some other use and doesn't harm society, then it is permissible and right. Otherwise all you have left is "muh feelings". Why is murder universally wrong in all instances? Why shouldn't I use my superior power and take your stuff for gain?

[The Oan Isles]

What is the real world reason that should prevent me from doing so other than "muh feelings"? You are trying to dodge right now. Just answer the question.

No I'm not fucking dodging. Can you actually validate your scenario by saying how you would do this without harming society?
You say that the law would back you doing this? Are you saying the law is corrupt? Then that harms society.
Are you saying the law is malevolent? Time for a fucking revolution.

I wonder why the individual who started this thread thought it would go down peacefully. *Pass the popcorn* Is this still about Religion and LGBT, 'cause I'm lost. *Munch, munch*

[Genivaria]

Not only is it false to claim that it has a religious 'origin' it is also false to claim that there is only one origin.
That's like claiming that clearly the Mayans learned Pyramid building from the Egyptians because there can only be one origin, so by your logic the Mayan pyramids are just Egyptian rip-offs.

How is that at all like what he's saying? Pyramids are a very effective way to build primitive structures, so they were found in several civilizations. Similarly, morality has its origins in religion, so similar moral codes were found in disparate places.

Yes and the Golden Rule is a very effective way to build a moral code off of.

Similarly, morality has its origins in religion

This has still to be proven.

[United Marxist Nations]

Confucianism is religious, it believes in harmony with Heaven, as well as ancestor and spirit-worship.

Greece was undoubtedly connected with ancient Egypt, and, more obviously, the Near-East, where the Golden Rule was also practiced.

Really reaching there aren't we.

Confucianism is often characterized as a system of social and ethical philosophy rather than a religion. In fact, Confucianism built on an ancient religious foundation to establish the social values, institutions, and transcendent ideals of traditional Chinese society. It was what sociologist Robert Bellah called a "civil religion,"1 the sense of religious identity and common moral understanding at the foundation of a society's central institutions. It is also what a Chinese sociologist called a "diffused religion";3 its institutions were not a separate church, but those of society, family, school, and state; its priests were not separate liturgical specialists, but parents, teachers, and officials. Confucianism was part of the Chinese social fabric and way of life; to Confucians, everyday life was the arena of religion.

http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/F ... ianism.htm

BRB

[Southerly Gentleman]

How is that at all like what he's saying? Pyramids are a very effective way to build primitive structures, so they were found in several civilizations. Similarly, morality has its origins in religion, so similar moral codes were found in disparate places.

Yes and the Golden Rule is a very effective way to build a moral code off of.

Similarly, morality has its origins in religion

This has still to be proven.

Have you been ignoring everything UMN said and linked to? Do you seriously think the Golden Rule just popped up out of nowhere because ancient people wanted to be good for the sake of being good?

[Genivaria]

No I'm not fucking dodging. Can you actually validate your scenario by saying how you would do this without harming society?
You say that the law would back you doing this? Are you saying the law is corrupt? Then that harms society.
Are you saying the law is malevolent? Time for a fucking revolution.

I wonder why the individual who started this thread thought it would go down peacefully. *Pass the popcorn* Is this still about Religion and LGBT, 'cause I'm lost. *Munch, munch*

I don't even fucking know at this point.
Ah now I remember I asked UMN why we should care about the Church's view on LGBT issues and then he derailed the thread into subjective vs objective morality.
He still has yet to get to a relevant point.

[The East Marches]

I wonder why the individual who started this thread thought it would go down peacefully. *Pass the popcorn* Is this still about Religion and LGBT, 'cause I'm lost. *Munch, munch*

I don't even fucking know at this point.
Ah now I remember I asked UMN why we should care about the Church's view on LGBT issues and then he derailed the thread into subjective vs objective morality.
He still has yet to get to a relevant point.

So have you

[Genivaria]

Yes and the Golden Rule is a very effective way to build a moral code off of.

This has still to be proven.

Have you been ignoring everything UMN said and linked to? Do you seriously think the Golden Rule just popped up out of nowhere because ancient people wanted to be good for the sake of being good?

First off, I linked the sources.
Second the fact the UMN wants to read only the parts that confirm his views and ignore the rest certainly isn't my fault.

[Genivaria]

I don't even fucking know at this point.
Ah now I remember I asked UMN why we should care about the Church's view on LGBT issues and then he derailed the thread into subjective vs objective morality.
He still has yet to get to a relevant point.

So have you

Relevant to the thread topic? That was posted before the derailing but I can see how going "No you" is easier.

[The East Marches]

So have you

Relevant to the thread topic? That was posted before the derailing but I can see how going "No you" is easier.

You still refused to address my point about your morality. Its not any better than the religious morality, it is virtually the same. :^)

[Genivaria]

Relevant to the thread topic? That was posted before the derailing but I can see how going "No you" is easier.

You still refused to address my point about your morality. Its not any better than the religious morality, it is virtually the same. :^)

Yes I have, and I'm growing tired of you lying.

[The East Marches]

You still refused to address my point about your morality. Its not any better than the religious morality, it is virtually the same. :^)

Yes I have, and I'm growing tired of you lying.

No you haven't. Just answer the question. Its not that difficult. What makes murder and banditry universally bad if there are no negative consequence? What about the actions on their own makes them bad?

[Genivaria]

Yes I have, and I'm growing tired of you lying.

No you haven't. Just answer the question. Its not that difficult. What makes murder and banditry universally bad if there are no negative consequence? What about the actions on their own makes them bad?

No you haven't.

Not sure how you think you know that.

But what makes murder and theft bad? The fact that people don't want to be murdered or robbed I'd say.

[United Marxist Nations]

Have you been ignoring everything UMN said and linked to? Do you seriously think the Golden Rule just popped up out of nowhere because ancient people wanted to be good for the sake of being good?

First off, I linked the sources.
Second the fact the UMN wants to read only the parts that confirm his views and ignore the rest certainly isn't my fault.

Your sources confirm that it originated in religious messages. All of the earliest notes of it are from religious texts.

[Genivaria]

First off, I linked the sources.
Second the fact the UMN wants to read only the parts that confirm his views and ignore the rest certainly isn't my fault.

Your sources confirm that it originated in religious messages. All of the earliest notes of it are from religious texts.

And pyramids originated in Egypt by your same logic.
No they confirmed no such thing.

[United Marxist Nations]

No you haven't. Just answer the question. Its not that difficult. What makes murder and banditry universally bad if there are no negative consequence? What about the actions on their own makes them bad?

No you haven't.

Not sure how you think you know that.

But what makes murder and theft bad? The fact that people don't want to be murdered or robbed I'd say.

Why does their opinion matter? There are clearly other people who want them to be murdered or robbed.

[Genivaria]

Not sure how you think you know that.

But what makes murder and theft bad? The fact that people don't want to be murdered or robbed I'd say.

Why does their opinion matter? There are clearly other people who want them to be murdered or robbed.

Do they want to be murdered or robbed?

[United Marxist Nations]

Your sources confirm that it originated in religious messages. All of the earliest notes of it are from religious texts.

And pyramids originated in Egypt by your same logic.
No they confirmed no such thing.

Again, these places did have contact with one-another. And you yourself said that you thought Christianity "appropriated" it.

[The East Marches]

No you haven't. Just answer the question. Its not that difficult. What makes murder and banditry universally bad if there are no negative consequence? What about the actions on their own makes them bad?

No you haven't.

Not sure how you think you know that.

But what makes murder and theft bad? The fact that people don't want to be murdered or robbed I'd say.

Your ultimate defense is "feelings", thank you for answering honestly. That is what is ultimately what it boils down to. No different than the religious types here. "Secular" ethics are just as much a meme as the religious ones.