Turkish Foreign Minister claims Greek islands are Turkish

[Costa Fierro]

Yeah, I know. My question is, why are we still letting them stay in NATO? They are a net detriment to European and American interests. Simple as that, a binding vote to kick Turkey out of NATO would be wise.

Unfortunately, Turkey can do almost anything it wants and will never be kicked out of NATO. Why, you ask? Two reasons:

Pfft. Just invade Gallipoli again.

[New Werpland]

Yeah, I know. My question is, why are we still letting them stay in NATO? They are a net detriment to European and American interests. Simple as that, a binding vote to kick Turkey out of NATO would be wise.

Unfortunately, Turkey can do almost anything it wants and will never be kicked out of NATO. Why, you ask? Two reasons:

Erm you do know they aren't allowed to close those unless it is in self defense right? So the empire of 100% justification can still send their fleets through those to cause misery if they wish.

[Dwalin]

I'm still amazed that even though Sultan Erdogan and his loyal followers continue and even increase making such remarks, the EU is still holding talks with them regarding their entry into the EU.

The EU has stopped those talks since three days ago, IIRC. They realised that they could no longer pretend to give Turkey some bait by holding talks for EU membership, and what was even more important: they illegally annexed and ethnically cleansed half of Cyprus, a member state of the EU nowadays.

That's some good news. I know my countries government objected the talks but hadn't heard anything after that. I agree though, and its not just the issue concerning Cyprus, there are hundreds of issues that Turkey should settle first before it should even be allowed to hold talks about joining the EU.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Well, this world is truly going down the drain. It's only a matter of time before WWIII begins.

That's what everyone said when Turks shot down a Russian Plane.

Now don't get me wrong, the AKP is corrupt and horrible. But they're no worse than the populists we support and are largely okay with.

[Korica]

This is all part of the plan to create a new ottoman empire which Erdoğan is trying to do.

[Constantinopolis]

Erm you do know they aren't allowed to close those unless it is in self defense right?

Yes, and that's precisely the reason why NATO will never kick Turkey out. As long as Turkey is in NATO, article 5 says that any attack on any other NATO country counts as an attack on Turkey as well. Therefore, if anyone attacks any NATO country, Turkey can claim self-defense and close the straits.

Basically, as long as Turkey is in NATO, no one who is at war with NATO can expect to be able to pass through those straits. This is an immense strategic advantage.

[Baltenstein]

Well, this world is truly going down the drain. It's only a matter of time before WWIII begins.

That's what everyone said when Turks shot down a Russian Plane.

Now don't get me wrong, the AKP is corrupt and horrible. But they're no worse than the populists we support and are largely okay with.

Who are the populists we support and are largely okay with?

[Herargon]

The EU has stopped those talks since three days ago, IIRC. They realised that they could no longer pretend to give Turkey some bait by holding talks for EU membership, and what was even more important: they illegally annexed and ethnically cleansed half of Cyprus, a member state of the EU nowadays.



Mate, this isn't Fox News. We're talking about politics in practicality...

Are you sure?

That first article is a joke. I almost laughed.
The second one is a lot more credible, and it gives an expanded outlook of the situation as well.
The BBC one is okay but they do not nuance the scale of those billions; the support is given indirectly* from the European budget, which In 2014 has had a budget of €864.3 billion, or on average a ~1.05% of the EU-28 states' GDP together. The UK contributed to that with its own budget for around €11.3 billion, which was 0.4% of its ~€2804 billion.

* Member states contribute to the European Union's budget, and in turn part of the EU budget goes to regional development, under which the things - that the three articles describe,- fall.

[Uxupox]

Are you sure?

That first article is a joke. I almost laughed.
The second one is a lot more credible, and it gives an expanded outlook of the situation as well.
The BBC one is okay but they do not nuance the scale of those billions; the support is given indirectly from the European budget (IIRC), which In 2014 has had a budget of €864.3 billion, or on average a ~1.05% of the EU-28 states' GDP together. The UK contributed to that with its own budget for around €11.3 billion, which was 0.4% of its ~€2804 billion.

They are still giving them money

[Jochizyd Republic]

That's what everyone said when Turks shot down a Russian Plane.

Now don't get me wrong, the AKP is corrupt and horrible. But they're no worse than the populists we support and are largely okay with.

Who are the populists we support and are largely okay with?

Trump, Le Pen, Farange, The FPO, Putin...

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Unfortunately, Turkey can do almost anything it wants and will never be kicked out of NATO. Why, you ask? Two reasons:

Pfft. Just invade Gallipoli again.

Hopefully it will work out better than last time.

[Herargon]

That first article is a joke. I almost laughed.
The second one is a lot more credible, and it gives an expanded outlook of the situation as well.
The BBC one is okay but they do not nuance the scale of those billions; the support is given indirectly from the European budget (IIRC), which In 2014 has had a budget of €864.3 billion, or on average a ~1.05% of the EU-28 states' GDP together. The UK contributed to that with its own budget for around €11.3 billion, which was 0.4% of its ~€2804 billion.

They are still giving them money

Because in reality they do not want Erdogan to become even more an idiot he is and actually invade more of Cyprus, for example. Or, that Erdogan might do nothing at all with the migration treaty and decide to let it slip. When you argue and negotiate with dictators, you know that they are bound to sometimes ... be childish.

[The Canadian North-West]

Pfffft, it's fine.

Just wait until Greece claims Istanbul is Greek and still Constantinople. Then all hell'l break loose. /s

[Baltenstein]

Who are the populists we support and are largely okay with?

Trump, Le Pen, Farange, The FPO, Putin...

I don't see how "we" support and are okay with them. All of them are being massively criticized in their countries and abroad, and rightfully so.

Out of your list however, only Putin is an autocrat who has turned his country into a one-man dictatorship on par with Erdogan. Le Pen, Farage and the FPO aren't in power, and Trump has not yet taken over as president.

[Baltenstein]

Pfft. Just invade Gallipoli again.

Hopefully it will work out better than last time.

We'll need more Australians than last time. Then it will work out just fine.

[Pasovo-nacoBo]

I must say, OP, that was a beautifully written post.

But yea, Greece must protect her Sovreignty. However, i think they are acting up for two reasons:
1. How much longer can the West and Turkey hold on to Cold-War NATO relations in the modern era?
2. The huge migrant crisis near Turkey and civil war on their borders, in addition to a coup is disturbing the government fuels constant fire for his very bold claims.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Trump, Le Pen, Farange, The FPO, Putin...

I don't see how "we" support and are okay with them. All of them are being massively criticized in their countries and abroad, and rightfully so.

Out of your list however, only Putin is an autocrat who has turned his country into a one-man dictatorship on par with Erdogan. Le Pen, Farage and the FPO aren't in power, and Trump has not yet taken over as president.

The public generally seems to be all for them.

And Trump has so.

[Anollasia]

"Every nation has the right to demand proper treatment and no country should violate the territory of any other country."

- Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

The quote could be taken either way but as beautiful as Greek islands may be, there is no need to be greedy about it.

[Jochizyd Republic]

This is all part of the plan to create a new ottoman empire which Erdoğan is trying to do.

Lol. I wish.

Okay, is it me or does everyone just have really low standard now? From leftists thinking Bernie will bring about your Socialist Eden to Fascists thinking Trump is one of them, to Russian Orthodox Traditionalists thinking Putin is one of them, to certain farther rightward leaning Black Turks thinking Erdogan is a Neo Ottomanist...

I don't get it. Doesn't anyone have standards anymore?

[Minzerland II]

Unfortunately, Turkey can do almost anything it wants and will never be kicked out of NATO. Why, you ask? Two reasons:

(Image)

Pfft. Just invade Gallipoli again.

Did we not learn from the past? The least we could do is land on the proper beach.

[Pasovo-nacoBo]

"Every nation has the right to demand proper treatment and no country should violate the territory of any other country."

- Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

The quote could be taken either way but as beautiful as Greek islands may be, there is no need to be greedy about it.

If there is no people on this rock, then instead of spending millions if not billions on war...why not purchase the damn thing!

[Uxupox]

They are still giving them money

Because in reality they do not want Erdogan to become even more an idiot he is and actually invade more of Cyprus, for example. Or, that Erdogan might do nothing at all with the migration treaty and decide to let it slip. When you argue and negotiate with dictators, you know that they are bound to sometimes ... be childish.

So in reality he is playing them like a little fiddle.

[Rio Cana]

Two years ago an article on Turkey in which they mentioned the Treaty of Lausanne of 1923 was published . This is it - http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/10/02/not ... onspiracy/

If the Turks take over one of those islands then Greece can declare the 1923 treaty void and thus go back to these borders -

The pre-treaty borders of Greece - http://www.dcstamps.com/wp-content/uplo ... on-Map.gif

[Lydenburg]

This is why the Greeks have artillery and tanks already dug into positions on some of those islands (especially Rhodes), all pointing east. They've worried about the possibility of a dispute with Turkey boiling over into a repeat of Cyprus 1974 for decades.

[Maichuko]

When's Russia finally going to kick his ass? With Europe plagued by the Right and Trump loving Putin they pretty much have a free shot.