Turkish Foreign Minister claims Greek islands are Turkish

[CountryLandVilleTown]

hope greece invades and takes back constantinople tbh

[Risottia]

This is going to make things interesting. ..the Greek courts have decided not to extradite the three Turkish soldiers who escaped on a Turkish army blackhawk to Greece after the coup failed. And why would you extradite someone back to a place that's going to torture them?
These three men may have one day been enemy combatants against the country, but at the end of the day they sought asylum and their human rights should be protected. Even if it pisses off the wannabe Sultan and his Islamist cult.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/greek-court ... 1480957706

Not that Greece had any other choice. They're party to the ECHR, no ECHR member can extradite anyone to Turkey right now of course - it's a country that has blatantly suspended all civil and personal rights.

[Novus America]

hope greece invades and takes back constantinople tbh

How are 11 million Greeks going to take a city of 14 million Turks in a country of 78 million Turks?
Short of mass murder using nuclear weapons Greece does not have it is not going to happen.

Turkey also has a much higher TFR. 2.06 to 1.34. The situation is only going to get worse for Greece. If Greece increased its TFR to say 4.00, maybe, in a century they might have a chance. Obviously that is not going to happen.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Short of mass murder using nuclear weapons

Literally what everyone is talking about.

[Jochizyd Republic]

hope greece invades and takes back constantinople tbh

Turkey should let the Grey Wolves loose in Greece then. Only fair to say.

[Victoriala II]

hope greece invades and takes back constantinople tbh

Turkey should let the Grey Wolves loose in Greece then. Only fair to say.

Then we release the Golden Dawn in reply.

Fair game.

[Hurdergaryp]

Short of mass murder using nuclear weapons

Literally what everyone is talking about.

It is a common enough subject in the fair and balanced discussion realm of NationStates General.

[The Islands of Versilia]

Turkey, calm down.

Just, take a chill pill and do kebab stuff.

Leave Greece alone. You're no longer the Ottoman Empire.

Go sit in your corner.

[Baltenstein]

I don't support communists, radical left wingers, conservatives, far right wingers, greens or any of the shit that exists.
What I support is someone who will put Greece first. Someone who will do what is in the interests of Greece and her people. Someone who will strive to make Hellenism stronger, someone who cares about their country and people, someone who wants to see a strong Greece(particularly economically and as a society and nation in general), who has the intelligence to navigate international politics and diplomacy, and the so called real-politic. Someone who is a statesmen, or an elder statesmen.

Maybe some day, when hell freezes over, a new politician like Eleutherios Venizelos will come along. Until then though...

Such a person obviously hasn't come to the forefront of Greek politics to date otherwise they'd be in power because I think the majority of people also are fed up with the existing situation and political parties hence why Syriza was able to win. One day, hopefully soon, such a person will come to power.
Maybe when Syriza fuck things up even more, and inevitably Golden Dawn get in and screw things up as well by making us a pariah on the world stage, someone who puts Greece's interests first will come along.

This reminds me of the joke that says that Greece should do it like Germany, vote Goden Dawn, become a Nazi dictatorship, declare war on everybody, lose, get occupied, and undergo an economic miracle afterwards.

Australia seems to be able to have stopped the boats arriving. Of course it doesn't have islands lying next to the enemies coast.
It still has more area to patrol over a much larger area in it's northern approaches.
They've stopped the boats because they wanted to. Because they deployed the navy, they deployed a border force, and maritime patrol aircraft, and they instituted a policy of turning the boats back. They send people to detention centers in nearby countries whom they have an agreement with. Anyone who isn't deemed a refugee, and that's most of them, isn't allowed to come to Australia.
Pretty soon they are going to ban anyone who tried to come to Australia illegally, who was deemed to not be a refugee, from ever being allowed to enter the country.

Yes a more Australian approach would be recomdenable, but as you said, there are some problematic factors in the Aegean that don't exist for Australia.

Ok, so that graph says around 140% from what I can see unless I'm blind.
So if the EU gave Greece money to pay off debts, why has Greece's debt continued to climb afterwards as a direct result of being "bailed out"?? That was my actual point. Not what the level of debt was, that's not really relevant whether it was 110% or 140%.

Do you mean the absolute debt, in numbers, or the debt-to-GDP ratio?

Greece's absolute debt was app. 300 billion Euro at the time of the first bailout. This didn't change, it's still more or less the same today, because the EU states lent money to Greece to pay off its old debts. Like so:
Let's say that you owe 1000 EUR to person A. You borrowed it a year ago under the condition that you will repay it (with interest, of course) in one year. Now the year is over and person A wants the loan+interest back, but you don't have it. Normally, you would be in trouble. But person B gives you the amount so you can repay person A, under the condition that B is going to monitor your finances from now on. You now have repaid person A, but you will still have to repay B in the future.
As one can see, person A are the private banks and person B is the EU.

Now to the debt-to-GDP ratio. This has climbed because Greece's economy has shrunk due to recession and capital flight. If Greece has an absolute debt of 300 billion EUR, and an economy of 200 billion EUR, then it's debt-to-GDP ratio is app. 150 %. If the debt stays at 300 billion EUR, but the GDP shrinks to 150 billion EUR, then the debt-to-GDP rises to 200 %.

And if he wasn't a moron obsessed with taking selfies in military attire, would you agree with his comments?

Personally, I think the stance of every Greek government should be to categorically endorse the current, internationally recognized borders and tell the Turks to pull off their jingoist, border-redrawing revisionism elsewhere. Not enganging in jingoist, border-redrawing revisionism on its own.

I don't think he will and never said he will. He's also expressed him self regarding ISIS and terrorism..something that Turkey has it's fingerprints all over.
He's on the record as saying that Europe, Germany specifically, should handle the Greece situation, and that America should stay out of it because they get involved in too many things.

Although I do believe several in his inner circle are Greek..although we've seen in the past how well Greek-Americans serve the interests of Greece(not at all), unlike the Jews in America with Israel..

Time will tell though. What they say during campaigns and what they actually do if they get in to office are two different things.

We shall see.

[Greed and Death]

Turkish naval forces are reporting massing in international waters near the islands.

[Rio Cana]

In commenting on a prior post. It seems the Greeks need to increase the production of babies or face a shrinking population.

Story on that - http://www.ekathimerini.com/202171/arti ... -to-go-off

Seems Bulgaria has it worst -

Bulgaria is expected to have the world's highest population decline rate between 2015 and 2050, a UN report shows.

The Southeastern European country is among the 48 whose population is expected to shrink over the next 35 years. It is part of the group where a decrease of more than 15% is expected between 2015-2050, alongside Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Hungary, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Romania, Serbia and Ukraine.

Bulgaria has a population of roughly 7.15 million as of 2015, a number that is projected to go down to 5.154 m in 35 years, the UN says.

This suggest a decrease of 27.9%, the biggest in the world according to a table that is part of the UN report's key findings. - See more at: http://www.novinite.com/articles/170130 ... Lb9iz.dpuf

Turkeys population is growing but according to this following article from 2012, its the Kurdish population and not the Turk population which is just at replacement level. Turkish law does not provide statistics by group. Everyone is lumped together.

Turkey's fertility rate is now below 2.1, the replacement level, which suggests the population will eventually decline.

The fertility level in more prosperous western Turkey is now about 1.5 -- roughly the same as in western Europe.The number of children produced by the average Turkish woman has plunged to two from three over just the past two decades, coincident with Turkey's rise as an economic power.

Kurds tend to have four kids compared for two for Turks.

Kurds, who tend to be concentrated in the country's impoverished southeast and are generally poorer and less educated, could conceivably outnumber Turks within about 30 years should present patterns persist.

Article - http://www.ibtimes.com/kurdish-majority ... ion-705466

[Baltenstein]

Yes, just like the Turks are "outbreeding" the SE European coutries, putting external pressure on them, they are themselves outbred by the Kurds inside Turkey, which of course will result in further massive clusterfucks if the Turkish state doesn't decide to settle the Kurdish issue in an acceptable way (something it has shown no willingness for so far).

[Arachno-Satinism]

hope greece invades and takes back constantinople tbh

It's actually spelled

"Konstantiniye"
:^)

[Qandaristania]

Ohh boy they're at it again.

[Greater Slavic Union]

How is anyone ok with Turkey being in NATO, and soon, maybe the EU?

Turkey's been part of NATO since 1952. Erdoğan wasn't born until 1954.

And? Why can't we change it?

With this logic, I may say "Well, Russia has dominated Ukraine, the Blatics, and Poland for centuries, so..."

[Ereria]

I wouldn't mind my state grabbing a few of these nice Greek Islands, but first we would need to bring in death penalty and get rid of the internal terrorist problems before we act on that. However I would ofc prefer no war at all. Priority should be to cleansing the terrorists then look outwards.

[Baltenstein]

I wouldn't mind my state grabbing a few of these nice Greek Islands, but first we would need to bring in death penalty and get rid of the internal terrorist problems before we act on that. However I would ofc prefer no war at all. Priority should be to cleansing the terrorists then look outwards.

Exactly, mein Führer. First you destroy the enemies of the nation within, than you destroy the inferior vermin without. Well done.

[Arachno-Satinism]

I wouldn't mind my state grabbing a few of these nice Greek Islands, but first we would need to bring in death penalty and get rid of the internal terrorist problems before we act on that. However I would ofc prefer no war at all. Priority should be to cleansing the terrorists then look outwards.

And people think AKP is the worst bunch in Turkish politics.

[Ereria]

I wouldn't mind my state grabbing a few of these nice Greek Islands, but first we would need to bring in death penalty and get rid of the internal terrorist problems before we act on that. However I would ofc prefer no war at all. Priority should be to cleansing the terrorists then look outwards.

Exactly, mein Führer. First you destroy the enemies of the nation within, than you destroy the inferior vermin without. Well done.

Very well summed up

And people think AKP is the worst bunch in Turkish politics.

Nah, for me AKP is way too considerate of what the EU demands and wants. In my own opinions we need death penalty to PKK members and ISIS people, and the state should be run by a nationalist government. However I can't see why Europeans are ok with other european countries having more and more right wing parties elected, but if Turkey does it, we are facist???

[Arachno-Satinism]

Nah, for me AKP is way too considerate of what the EU demands and wants. In my own opinions we need death penalty to PKK members and ISIS people, and the state should be run by a nationalist government. However I can't see why Europeans are ok with other european countries having more and more right wing parties elected, but if Turkey does it, we are facist???

Not one of those Europeans and I view every populist, ultranationalist, & extreme religious with equal disdain, but to put it quite simply: new right parties are voted due to tribalist self-interest, not certain ideological purity or sincere belief that every nation should be concerned of its own traditions, customs, and heritages.

[Esternial]

Turkey, a less mentally stable Russia.

[Victoriala II]

hope greece invades and takes back constantinople tbh

It's actually spelled

"Istanbul"
:^)

ftfy

[Punikstan]

Unfortunately, the never-ending stream of worrying news from Turkey continues. Stepping in line with president Erdogan's latest remarks that the Lausanne treaty consisted of "unfair conditions that were imposed upon Turkey" that "are not going to last forever" (Seen here), Turkish foreign minister Cavusoglu has decided to up the ante and make territorial demands on the Greek Islands of Imia:

Turkey’s Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu on Wednesday referred to the eastern Aegean Imia islets as “Turkish soil.”

Cavusoglu was responding in writing to a question tabled by a Turkish MP regarding the status of islands and islets in the Aegean.

“As long as the AKP is in power there will be no change in the legal and de facto status of islands in the Aegean,” noted Cavusoglu in his statement.

Cavusoglu’s comments followed comments made by the leader of the Turkish Republican People's Party (CHP) Kemal Kilicdaroglu in which he accused Greece of occupying 18 islands in the Aegean.

Reacting to Cavusoglu's statement, the Greek foreign ministry issued its own statement on Thursday.

"Greece’s sovereignty over its islands in the Aegean, including Imia, is undisputable and established by international law,” the ministry said, adding that "Irresponsible references to the contrary are provocative," given that the legal status of Aegean islands and islets was determined by a series of international agreements signed last century.

In 1996, Greece and Turkey came close to war over the uninhabited outcrop.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/214212/arti ... k-reaction

State of Emergency, constant sabre-rattling against the West, increasing repression of all internal opposition, establishment of a strong-man cult of personality, glorification of the imperial past, now open territorial demands against smaller neighbor countries: the Erdogan government has started to mimic the antiques of Nazi Germany so closely that I'm really starting to wonder if Erdogan has a copy of "Mein Kampf" somewhere on his bedside table.

Greek PM Alexis Tsipras meanwhile has more important things to do, like worshipping Fidel Castro's corpse in Havana and holding great speeches about the evils of Capitalism or whatever.

It is my personal opinion that - against an increasingly hostile and revanchist Turkey - the EU must cooperate more closely on matters of border security and immigration management and look for ways that reduce the dependency on Erdogan's Turkey on that particular matter in any way possible. The integrity of EU memberstates borders must be guaranteed in the Aegean as much as in the Baltics/Eastern Europe or elsewhere, especially with the possible prospect that a Trump presidency will considerably reduce American hard power presence in Europe.

What say ye NSG?

Just gonna leave this here.

Remove Erdogan and replace AKP with the Kemalists and HDP.

[Novus America]

Turkey's been part of NATO since 1952. Erdoğan wasn't born until 1954.

And? Why can't we change it?

With this logic, I may say "Well, Russia has dominated Ukraine, the Blatics, and Poland for centuries, so..."

We can, but outside of the US they are the only member with a large, somewhat credible army, and the have a vital strategic position. Have them leave NATO and go to Russia would be a major strategic reversal that would greatly weaken NATO. Also they are the main non Russian energy supply route to Europe.

[Arachno-Satinism]

Unfortunately, the never-ending stream of worrying news from Turkey continues. Stepping in line with president Erdogan's latest remarks that the Lausanne treaty consisted of "unfair conditions that were imposed upon Turkey" that "are not going to last forever" (Seen here), Turkish foreign minister Cavusoglu has decided to up the ante and make territorial demands on the Greek Islands of Imia:



http://www.ekathimerini.com/214212/arti ... k-reaction

State of Emergency, constant sabre-rattling against the West, increasing repression of all internal opposition, establishment of a strong-man cult of personality, glorification of the imperial past, now open territorial demands against smaller neighbor countries: the Erdogan government has started to mimic the antiques of Nazi Germany so closely that I'm really starting to wonder if Erdogan has a copy of "Mein Kampf" somewhere on his bedside table.

Greek PM Alexis Tsipras meanwhile has more important things to do, like worshipping Fidel Castro's corpse in Havana and holding great speeches about the evils of Capitalism or whatever.

It is my personal opinion that - against an increasingly hostile and revanchist Turkey - the EU must cooperate more closely on matters of border security and immigration management and look for ways that reduce the dependency on Erdogan's Turkey on that particular matter in any way possible. The integrity of EU memberstates borders must be guaranteed in the Aegean as much as in the Baltics/Eastern Europe or elsewhere, especially with the possible prospect that a Trump presidency will considerably reduce American hard power presence in Europe.

What say ye NSG?

Just gonna leave this here.

Remove Erdogan and replace AKP with the Kemalists and HDP.

You can do it either by a) glorious Turkish Kemalist tradition of military coup (too late), or b) the CHP could think how to snatch away those rural votes from AKP.
Wishful thinking.