7th Rome prophecy?

[Krah Versilia]

If it means an influx of hot, buxom blondes then I am okay with this. Sure the language is trash but I am a man of compromise.

I'll endorse such an endeavour.

As will I, although I would like some Norwegians with that.

[Napkiraly]

Not really. The Qin and Xin dynasties for example only lasted 15 and 14 years respectively. The Yuan dynasty didn't last a century. A number of others lasted only around a century or century and a half. The CCP has been in power for over 70 years, so it is quite possible that we can see its end in the next half century or so.

Some of the most successful such as Tang and Ming lasted nearly 3 centuries, though.

Indeed, so it depends on how well the CCP is able to hold onto power. For all we know, their reign could outlast that of the Zhou Dynasty or could be up in flames two decades from now.

[New Antonalia]

China, most likely.

The United States resembles Rome at it's lowest, just with the thin veneer of enlightened civilization hiding all the cracks.

Frankly, it's kind of appropriate. China might as well get a shake at being the big dick swinging superpower for a while.

Hell, they might do it better than we did, and that's not a difficult standard to beat.

Mods, I am terribly sorry for this potential thread jack but I just can't let the quoted comment slide.

Entering Rant Mode...

No, no, and a big fucking hell no. Have you seen what China does to it's own people on a daily basis? The lack of basic freedoms, the constant monitoring, the the government ideology being the continued preservation of the Chinese Communist Party??? Excuse me but what grass have you been smoking to think that China would make a better superpower? They are horribly belligerent, have a laughable human rights track record, and guess what their doing in Africa? Completely screwing the pooch when it comes to the best interests of the citizens of those nations! Hell, I'd be remiss to mention how they supplied weapons to the genocidal Interahamwe and Government forces during the Rwandan Genocide, China's relationship with Comrade Bob (Robert Mugabe, the psychotic racist and xenophobic dicator of Zimbabwe who suspended all free elections after he was elected), and look what their doing with Assad and the Ba'athists. And yeah the United States has a pretty shitty track record, but our best interests normally lie within the best interests of the world as a whole. I would be incredibly remiss if I didn't mention all the stuff the rest of the world loves to harp on the United States for, like supporting the Batista regime, supplying arms to the Muj., and stuff like that, but the point remains, the United States has a history of helping others. Watch the lecture Col. Thomas Sheperd gave in 2010, and then you can determine whether or not China is best for the world.

[Auristania]

I can pick and chose Romes. So can everybody else.
Currently the Poll is set at guessing which Nation will be the nxt Rome after USA. IF enough posters vote to change the Poll to voting for their Favourite Historical Romes, then I will change the Poll; it is known.

Question: what do you mean by "the terrorists"
Its a big bad world out there, kiddo, you're gonna have to be a tad more specific.

List of terrorists: Daesh, ISIL, al Nusrah Front, IRA, Hamas, CIA, KGB, Alphabetti Spagghetti etc etc etc

[Engleberg]

Question: what do you mean by "the terrorists"
Its a big bad world out there, kiddo, you're gonna have to be a tad more specific.

List of terrorists: Daesh, ISIL, al Nusrah Front, IRA, Hamas, CIA, KGB, Alphabetti Spaghetti etc etc etc

Did you just put the CIA on there. Are you sure about that statement.

[Ebliania]

List of terrorists: Daesh, ISIL, al Nusrah Front, IRA, Hamas, CIA, KGB, Alphabetti Spaghetti etc etc etc

Did you just put the "CIA" on there. Are you sure about that statement.

not that far from the truth.


7th Rome won't happen, everything dies when Trump nukes the world. jk

[Community Values]

If that's the case, we have quite awhile to go if China now is like a dynasty then (quite ironic, really).

Not really. The Qin and Xin dynasties for example only lasted 15 and 14 years respectively. The Yuan dynasty didn't last a century. A number of others lasted only around a century or century and a half. The CCP has been in power for over 70 years, so it is quite possible that we can see its end in the next half century or so.

The Ming lasted 200 years, and after that the Qing, lasted another 200 years. The Han lasted 400 years. I don't think time matters, since this stuff is all triggered by the Mandate of Heaven, and if China now is the equivalent of the dynasties then, what would be the Mandate's equivalent? What could the CCP do that would piss off its citizens so much that they would openly revolt?

[Sanctissima]

Not really. The Qin and Xin dynasties for example only lasted 15 and 14 years respectively. The Yuan dynasty didn't last a century. A number of others lasted only around a century or century and a half. The CCP has been in power for over 70 years, so it is quite possible that we can see its end in the next half century or so.

Some of the most successful such as Tang and Ming lasted nearly 3 centuries, though.

True, but the CCP is hardly another Han dynasty, or akin to one of the more illustrious and successful ones. They've managed to mass industrialize the country, but that's about it. The military is (despite being massive in terms of sheer manpower) extremely underfunded, the environment is completely fucked, the culture is utterly destroyed and socially things are not terribly good. Given enough of a shove, it could all come crashing down.

They're basically another Qing Dynasty. Very powerful, but not stable. A civil war is, while unprecedented, almost always just around the corner.

[Valaran]

The main point of this thread is who will be the nxt Mpire after USA?

The secondary point of the thread is categorizing which historical Empires count as legitimate descendants and ancestors of Rome?

Possibly China.

No one after Byzantium.

[Sanctissima]

None will realize the true threat of Canadian immigrants until it is too late!

Fools, instead of building a border wall with Mexico, you should be building one in the North, from whence comes your demise! Vae victis, Winter is coming!

this kills the Canadian

Hiss, our one weakness, how could they have known!?

It matters not... send in the geese.

[Community Values]

The main point of this thread is who will be the nxt Mpire after USA?

The secondary point of the thread is categorizing which historical Empires count as legitimate descendants and ancestors of Rome?

Possibly China.

No one after Byzantium.

Not the HRE?

[Dytarma]

Long answer:

I think the USA will still stand as the "Modern Rome" because they are the only superpower left in the world, yet China and Russia are catching up. But due to the Tibetan independence movement and China's pollution, they may soon fall behind again. But Russia however, they may be able to give independence to Novorossiya and weaken Ukraine, and with Trump soon going to be our 45th president, our relations may warm a bit. But, with tentions growing with the NATO, we may see Russia loose some important allies, like Belarus. This is because of it being between Russia and the E.U., and with the Russian's intervention in Ukraine, this may change who they side with. This will cause NATO troops to cross into Belarus and into mainland Russia, and then the NATO troops could cause Russia to surrender. This would still make America the sole superpower.

Short answer:

GO 'MURICA!!!!

[Socialist Nordia]

Some of the most successful such as Tang and Ming lasted nearly 3 centuries, though.

True, but the CCP is hardly another Han dynasty, or akin to one of the more illustrious and successful ones. They've managed to mass industrialize the country, but that's about it. The military is (despite being massive in terms of sheer manpower) extremely underfunded, the environment is completely fucked, the culture is utterly destroyed and socially things are not terribly good. Given enough of a shove, it could all come crashing down.

They're basically another Qing Dynasty. Very powerful, but not stable. A civil war is, while unprecedented, almost always just around the corner.

The only thing I can think of that China can do to squander their shot at being the next most important global power is if they have another warring states period.

[Napkiraly]

Not really. The Qin and Xin dynasties for example only lasted 15 and 14 years respectively. The Yuan dynasty didn't last a century. A number of others lasted only around a century or century and a half. The CCP has been in power for over 70 years, so it is quite possible that we can see its end in the next half century or so.

The Ming lasted 200 years, and after that the Qing, lasted another 200 years. The Han lasted 400 years. I don't think time matters, since this stuff is all triggered by the Mandate of Heaven, and if China now is the equivalent of the dynasties then, what would be the Mandate's equivalent? What could the CCP do that would piss off its citizens so much that they would openly revolt?

As it has always been: prosperity, stability, law and order, lack of corruption, etc. Those things can easily go, especially with the numerous issues in China's society (corruption, the rich worming their way past justice, demographic pressures, etc) and things that China cannot fully control (the effects of climate change, automation, etc).

[Socialist Nordia]

Long answer:

I think the USA will still stand as the "Modern Rome" because they are the only superpower left in the world, yet China and Russia are catching up. But due to the Tibetan independence movement and China's pollution, they may soon fall behind again. But Russia however, they may be able to give independence to Novorossiya and weaken Ukraine, and with Trump soon going to be our 45th president, our relations may warm a bit. But, with tentions growing with the NATO, we may see Russia loose some important allies, like Belarus. This is because of it being between Russia and the E.U., and with the Russian's intervention in Ukraine, this may change who they side with. This will cause NATO troops to cross into Belarus and into mainland Russia, and then the NATO troops could cause Russia to surrender. This would still make America the sole superpower.

Short answer:

GO 'MURICA!!!!

Russia is a declining power, lashing out in their last efforts at becoming a global power on the scale they once were. In the long term, I don't see them as one of the most important players on the world stage.

[Auristania]

Excuse me but what grass have you been smoking to think that China would make a better superpower? They are horribly belligerent, have a laughable human rights track record, and guess what their doing in Africa? Completely screwing the pooch when it comes to the best interests of the citizens of those nations!

Does China being evil make it more likely or less likely that China will be the next Empire?

Who will be the nxt Empire after USA?
Will that change be good or evil? is another story.

[Dytarma]

Long answer:

I think the USA will still stand as the "Modern Rome" because they are the only superpower left in the world, yet China and Russia are catching up. But due to the Tibetan independence movement and China's pollution, they may soon fall behind again. But Russia however, they may be able to give independence to Novorossiya and weaken Ukraine, and with Trump soon going to be our 45th president, our relations may warm a bit. But, with tentions growing with the NATO, we may see Russia loose some important allies, like Belarus. This is because of it being between Russia and the E.U., and with the Russian's intervention in Ukraine, this may change who they side with. This will cause NATO troops to cross into Belarus and into mainland Russia, and then the NATO troops could cause Russia to surrender. This would still make America the sole superpower.

Short answer:

GO 'MURICA!!!!

Russia is a declining power, lashing out in their last efforts at becoming a global power on the scale they once were. In the long term, I don't see them as one of the most important players on the world stage.

Same here. With all the criticism the've been getting for the Ukraine conflict, that may be one of the reasons they may back down.

[Sanctissima]

True, but the CCP is hardly another Han dynasty, or akin to one of the more illustrious and successful ones. They've managed to mass industrialize the country, but that's about it. The military is (despite being massive in terms of sheer manpower) extremely underfunded, the environment is completely fucked, the culture is utterly destroyed and socially things are not terribly good. Given enough of a shove, it could all come crashing down.

They're basically another Qing Dynasty. Very powerful, but not stable. A civil war is, while unprecedented, almost always just around the corner.

The only thing I can think of that China can do to squander their shot at being the next most important global power is if they have another warring states period.

Honestly, it wouldn't take all that much to kickstart a modern-day equivalent. There's already plenty of inner-Party rivalries and individual high-ranking Party members who pretty much control parts of the military. If a major Party-schism ever happened, it wouldn't take much to turn these Party elite into warlords.

The Achilles' Heel of China is food. They are by no means self-sufficient, and need to import massive amounts of food from foreign countries. It's one of the reasons why they're so interested in East Africa at the moment. Plenty of farms propping up there due to Chinese investment.

If something were to suddenly happen that prevented China from imported sufficient quantities of food, things would get hectic. And I'm not convinced today's Chinese would die of starvation as submissively as those who did during the Great Leap Forward's famine. It would only take one high-ranking Party member with a bit of ambition (and there are plenty of those) and the right resources to take advantage of such a situation, and that would cause one massive civil war.

[Sanctissima]

Russia is a declining power, lashing out in their last efforts at becoming a global power on the scale they once were. In the long term, I don't see them as one of the most important players on the world stage.

Same here. With all the criticism the've been getting for the Ukraine conflict, that may be one of the reasons they may back down.

They're testing the waters, ultimately.

If he thought he could get away with it, Putin would take a lot more than just Crimea. Russia can bully around places like Ukraine and Georgia, but when other countries with actual power come onto the scene, the Russian bear backs away. It's why Russian tanks haven't rolled into Kiev. They could do it, it's just that they don't think they could get away with it.

[The Federal American Empire]

This is my hope.

1. liberal politics in the US and Canada collapse under its own social and economic weight.

2. The "Federal Republic of North America" is formed as conservatives in Canada and the US unite.

3. The FR becomes a voluntary one party state.

[Valaran]

True, but the CCP is hardly another Han dynasty, or akin to one of the more illustrious and successful ones. They've managed to mass industrialize the country, but that's about it. The military is (despite being massive in terms of sheer manpower) extremely underfunded, the environment is completely fucked, the culture is utterly destroyed and socially things are not terribly good. Given enough of a shove, it could all come crashing down.

They're basically another Qing Dynasty. Very powerful, but not stable. A civil war is, while unprecedented, almost always just around the corner.

Not that I'm espcially willing to defend China or the CCP, but, to adress some of your specific points:

They have had one of the most successful economic development stories in history. This has been more than industrialisation, and also included (for instance) the largest and sharpest reduction in poverty ever recorded, one of the largest and best sustained periods of economic growth, unprecedented and sustained rise in living standards, etc. I don't feel your sentence does such an achievement justice.

As to the underfunding of their military, well I would normally question on what basis might one might have proclaimed this, but in China's case it would be simply easier to note that its budget increases by 6-11% annually. It is currently higher than all other Asian countries combined, and such exponential growth leads to obvious future results. Whatever underfunding may presently exist, it won't be there shortly (I think its military has other issues, but funding levels is not really one of them).

Culture is a tricksy concept, but your point is contentious. It has not been destroyed so much as altered (often by general socio-economic forces that are concurrent with rapid development), and much of it (such as confucianism) is deliberately preserved and sponsored by the CCP. You'd be on more solid ground when referring to the suppression of specific cultures, namely Uighur or Tibetan.

[No argument on the environmental consequences]

Now as to stability, I think it is fair to say that CCP has far greater control over both state institutions, and indeed civil society, than the Qing Dynasty did. As to whether this leads to stability as an objective reality (ie in a non-comparative sense) is harder to determine, but the present system is far from teetering over the edge: the CCP is relatively popular (due to nationalism and rising living standards), it has no major alternative to worry about and it maintains a fairly tight grip over the citizen body and over the possible origins of any alternative system (education, intellectuals, online, etc). This is far more sturdy an edifice than most dictators can boast of. While there are clearly long term issues on the horizon (states' inability to reform well, reliance on economic factors, birth of civil movements, lack of local/provincial control, etc), these remain relatively distant pressures, not immediate fracture points. Thus, I highly doubt that a shove could presently do that much, outside of some massively catastrophic event that any system of government would be hard pressed to survive.

[Dytarma]

Same here. With all the criticism the've been getting for the Ukraine conflict, that may be one of the reasons they may back down.

They're testing the waters, ultimately.

If he thought he could get away with it, Putin would take a lot more than just Crimea. Russia can bully around places like Ukraine and Georgia, but when other countries with actual power come onto the scene, the Russian bear backs away. It's why Russian tanks haven't rolled into Kiev. They could do it, it's just that they don't think they could get away with it.

I know what you mean, it's this kind of thing that pulls them away from being a superpower, which is why America would probably stay ahead for a while. I'm not saying forever, just a while.

[Valaran]

The only thing I can think of that China can do to squander their shot at being the next most important global power is if they have another warring states period.

I'd say that demographic factors in particular are more important.

[Auristania]

List of terrorists: Daesh, ISIL, al Nusrah Front, IRA, Hamas, CIA, KGB, Alphabetti Spaghetti etc etc etc

Did you just put the CIA on there. Are you sure about that statement.

Indeed I did. You win 5M internet $ for paying attention.

[The Grene Knyght]

List of terrorists: Daesh, ISIL, al Nusrah Front, IRA, Hamas, CIA, KGB, Alphabetti Spaghetti etc etc etc

Did you just put the CIA on there. Are you sure about that statement.

I mean in fairness, aren't they?
But I would disagree with what you're saying about terrorists constituting a rome. They are far too fractured. Some of these groups have utterly no relation to each other. This is a loose and vague as someone saying fascists are the next rome, or feminists, or francophones, or people with dogs.