7th Rome prophecy?

[Napkiraly]

Why does it just arbitrarily start with Rome if we're talking about civilizations with no connections to the Romans?

Rome is the grand daddy of Europe, and to a lesser extent, the Middle East. For instance, upon conquering Constantinople, Mehmed II claimed that he was the rightful ruler of the Roman Empire. Their impact cannot be understated on the Mediterranean basin and its history.

[Alvecia]

I guess this Catch-22 quote is somewhat appropriate here

Old man in whorehouse: You see, Italy is a very poor, weak country and that is what makes us so strong, strong enough to survive this war and still be in existence, long after your country has been destroyed.

Capt. Nately: What are you talking about? America is not going to be destroyed.

Old man in whorehouse: Never?

Capt. Nately: Well...

Old man in whorehouse: Rome was destroyed. Greece was destroyed. Persia was destroyed. Spain was destroyed. All great countries are destroyed. Why not yours? How much longer do you think your country will last? Forever?

Capt. Nately: Well, forever is a long time.

Old man in whorehouse: Very long.

[Napkiraly]

Why does it just arbitrarily start with Rome if we're talking about civilizations with no connections to the Romans?

Rome seems to be the at the center of everything for people who read the Bible and conspiracies instead of actual history.

Or because Rome has had a profound influence on European history and was the standard everyone set to compare themselves to.

[Siotao]

Can confirm that mainland Chinese tourists are nothing but fucking assholes. Have never had a good experience with them.

can further confirm because dealing with chinese tourists in singapore or malaysia is like dealing with a mob of locusts

[The Grene Knyght]

For real guys, it's in the OP.
It starts with Rome because that's where the prophecy starts.

[Genivaria]

For real guys, it's in the OP.
It starts with Rome because that's where the prophecy starts.

The problem is that very few of us give a damn about prophecy.

[The first Galactic Republic]

Why does it just arbitrarily start with Rome if we're talking about civilizations with no connections to the Romans?

Rome is the grand daddy of Europe, and to a lesser extent, the Middle East. For instance, upon conquering Constantinople, Mehmed II claimed that he was the rightful ruler of the Roman Empire. Their impact cannot be understated on the Mediterranean basin and its history.

You must have missed all the non European countries in the poll though.

[The first Galactic Republic]

For real guys, it's in the OP.
It starts with Rome because that's where the prophecy starts.

OP doesn't even follow the prophecy. The idea of a third Rome is already contended and OP acts like it was outright decided and that there have been other Romes.

Furthermore the idea of a Third Rome was that an actual successor of Rome existed, not that a really big power existed. Thus countries like China or the US can't be connected to Rome.

[Genivaria]

For real guys, it's in the OP.
It starts with Rome because that's where the prophecy starts.

OP doesn't even follow the prophecy. The idea of a third Rome is already contended and OP acts like it was outright decided and that there have been other Romes.

Furthermore the idea of a Third Rome was that an actual successor of Rome existed, not that a really big power existed. Thus countries like China or the US can't be connected to Rome.

So would Fascist Italy be a successor?

[Valaran]

Fair points all around.

My main point about the economy is that it's foundationless. Sure, there's sustained growth, and everything looks indomitable at the surface, but deep down there are two major problems that could, even individually, cause the whole thing to implode:

1) The Coal Sector. They have nuclear plants and massive hydroelectric plants, sure, but China is overwhelmingly dependent on coal. This has reduced pretty massive sections of the country to smog-ridden hellholes, which has completely fucked much of their population health-wise. The bottom line is, China is unlikely to give up coal before it is forced to, and by then I expect it will be a bit too late since much of their agricultural sector will already be in ruins, and the bulk of their population will have health conditions that make Minamata look like nothing.

2) Their Population. Too many boys, not enough girls. Give it a few decades, and the country will experience a major population decline unless they adopt en masse from other countries (which they won't, because they're racist as all hell). That will fuck over a large swath of their economy. Or not, it depends on when automation kicks off.

I completely agree as to there being structural issues regarding the economy. I personally focus on different issues than coal, though the demographic crisis in general is certainly the central problem.

Militarily, I probably should have reworded that. My main point is that it's shit. They've got tanks that can't fit soldiers, guns that malfunction, and training that makes even Germany's Army look like it's got its shit together. In an actual war with a country of similar strength, they wouldn't fare nearly as well as many people think.

I think I might agree with this, and the last sentence in particular, but I also happen to think that the Chinese military is quite good at specific things (aspects of A2/AD, beating Japanese naval forces, border wars with India). I don't know whether having bad full spectrum capabilities and good niche capabilities makes a military shit per se, though it wouldn't make it excellent akin to the US. Perhaps it is simply inefficient, given its funding, but I don't think China is the worst culprit there (Saudi Arabia, for one).

Culturally, no, I'm sorry, but I must insist their new culture is shit. Their society has been reduced to a bunch of lemming-locust hybrids who follow the pack but are selfish as all hell. It is the utmost worst combination of collectivism and individualism in one fucked up union. Ever wonder why nobody liked Chinese tourists? It's because they're a bunch of assholes whose culture has been reduced to assholism.

I just feel that it is subjective/a normative statement to make, no?

Stability-wise, if they ever faced an actual longterm crisis (particularly one that prevented them from importing sufficient amounts of food from other countries for a significant period of time) all hell would break loose. There are Party members at odds with each other who quite literally have private armies under their control in all but name. It may be a house of cards reinforced with concrete, but it's still a house of cards. Give it enough of a push, and it will shove, considerably moreso than other developed countries.

I'm not sure, is the honest answer. I don't think many countries could survive persistent food shortages with their political system intact, but on the other hand I would agree in that China is less politically stable than western nations. My normal line is that whatever its faults, the CCP will band together when faced with serious threats (out of mutual fear, if nothing else), and that they have plenty of measures to alleviate short term problems; these are tempered by structural issues and a reliance on continued economic prosperity as a basis for legitimacy. I would be very curious as to China's internal stability in 2030, and I think I would be much closer to your position then, but for now I think it is quite stable.

[The first Galactic Republic]

OP doesn't even follow the prophecy. The idea of a third Rome is already contended and OP acts like it was outright decided and that there have been other Romes.

Furthermore the idea of a Third Rome was that an actual successor of Rome existed, not that a really big power existed. Thus countries like China or the US can't be connected to Rome.

So would Fascist Italy be a successor?

When Constantinople fell a few countries tried to argue that they were direct successors. The Ottomans argued that they were because they conquered the Byzantines. The Russians argued they were because the Byzantines made them Orthodox. Germany claimed they were because of the Holy Roman Empire.

Fascist Italy however has doesn't have a direct connection and really no country does. The Byzantines were Romans on the other hand, though they became very different so the idea of a Second Rome is arguably flawed.

[Valaran]

I assume that this in reference to the notion of 'state terrorism', which is mostly conducted by intelligence agencies.

It's only state terrorism when it is conducted against us.

idk where Auristania is from though

[Napkiraly]

OP doesn't even follow the prophecy. The idea of a third Rome is already contended and OP acts like it was outright decided and that there have been other Romes.

Furthermore the idea of a Third Rome was that an actual successor of Rome existed, not that a really big power existed. Thus countries like China or the US can't be connected to Rome.

So would Fascist Italy be a successor?

They certainly described themselves as such and aspired to recreate a "New Roman Empire" in the Mediterranean Basin, even referring to the Mediterranean as Mare Nostrum.

[The Grene Knyght]

For real guys, it's in the OP.
It starts with Rome because that's where the prophecy starts.

OP doesn't even follow the prophecy. The idea of a third Rome is already contended and OP acts like it was outright decided and that there have been other Romes.

Furthermore the idea of a Third Rome was that an actual successor of Rome existed, not that a really big power existed. Thus countries like China or the US can't be connected to Rome.

I agree
I was just answering the question you guys had as to why the opportunity chose rome as the starting point

[Neanderthaland]

So why is the HRE the 4th Rome, and Moscow the 3rd, when the HRE predates the Russian Empire?

[Genivaria]

So why is the HRE the 4th Rome, and Moscow the 3rd, when the HRE predates the Russian Empire?

Because fuck history?

[21st Century Rome]

...I don't suppose you guys think it would be likely for the true Roman Empire to come back in the 21st Century?
:P
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Uhhh.... *shrugs*
I'd vote China. You know, giant population and all. But what do I know? I want real Rome back.

[Genivaria]

...I don't suppose you guys think it would be likely for the true Roman Empire to come back in the 21st Century?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Uhhh.... *shrugs*
I'd vote China. You know, giant population and all. But what do I know? I want real Rome back.

You're welcome.
http://40.media.tumblr.com/fd44a75f5af6 ... 1_1280.jpg
http://cdn.wallpapersafari.com/41/53/vslgyT.jpg

[New confederate ramenia]

>tfw I'm the only person who voted for South America
khe weon soy

[Minoa]

The problem with this idea, apart from fallacies with actual history, is that at present the barriers to transportation are lower than ever before, making tourism and working abroad possible nearly anywhere. It is understandable for most countries to desire to be the homeland of the next Apple and Google, hence you see calls by most countries for foreign investment.

[Risottia]

AD 1453: Barbarians destroyed Constantinople, the second Rome and there was a prophecy "Two Romes have fallen. The third stands. And there will not be a fourth https://orthodoxwiki.org/Third_Rome

Rome 1 = Rome
Rome 2 = Constantinople
Rome 3 = Moscow

The fourth Rome shall never be = the Holy Roman Empire which is defined as neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire.

Rome 5 = British Empire, the biggest Empire evah: therefore Arthur Pendragon.
Rome 6 = USA

Which nation will be the next Empire after USA?

As a pessimist, I expect terrorists will win.

As an optimist, I hope India will win. Britain civilized India therefore they carry the legacy of Arthur Pendragon himself.

India was quite civilized before Britain took it over and the US was never an empire.

Uhm, the Philippines, Cuba and Puerto Rico might disagree on the last bit. Unless you mean "ruled by someone styled as Emperor", that is.

[Esternial]

A fine illustration on how reductionism isn't always a good idea.

[Frank Zipper]

Alibaba

[Jumhuriyah Hindustan]

China first, then India.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

The fourth Rome shall never be = the Holy Roman Empire which is defined as neither Holy nor Roman nor an Empire.

Muh Voltaire quote 700 years after the fact!