Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

[Tarsonis]

It relates to both mind and body. To class transgenderism as a mental illness involves a dualism in which body and mind are separated excessively, and the body - in strictly biologically defined terms - is asserted as arbiter of truth.

Except it is in this case. Biological reality is the normal arbiter of reality for 99.97% of the population. In the Case of GD, the Mind is at odds with the body in a way that is not supposed to be. Hence disorder.

The condition doesn't really fit any of the otherwise-used medical paradigms, and there's no need to try and force it, particularly as this often brings into play more general derogatory attitudes towards mental health conditions - the phrases "they should just get over it" and "we shouldn't pander to delusion" tend not to be far away.

"they should just get over it" shouldn't be said to anybody with any mental illness.

"Not pandering to delusion" has objective merit, but i've yet to meet anyone without a derogatory motive for saying it.

[The New California Republic]

Fuck no. We are back to that old chestnut, are we?

https://www.health24.com/Mental-Health/ ... s-20180621

A rose by any other name smells just as sweet

Uh huh. How about I call you something that you are not, to see how happy you are about it? No? Didn't think so...

[Tarsonis]

Yes, your seeing a mental health specialist, i.e getting treatment. I'm not commenting on appropriate methods of treatment, I'm simply stating the fact that Gender Dysphoria is not a typical neurological condition, thus would be accurately classified as a Mental Disorder.

Actually I see a therapist for schizophrenia and ocd. They constantly wave off that it’s a mental health issue and focus more on how people treat me because of it

That might be more appropriate for your individual case. Again, I haven't said that social treatment isn't a cause for depression and anxiety, I said it was disingenuous to blame it "solely."

[Tarsonis]

A rose by any other name smells just as sweet

Uh huh. How about I call you something that you are not, to see how happy you are about it? No? Didn't think so...

As much has I hate the over used lines, Facts and feelings often have little to do with each other.

[The New California Republic]

Uh huh. How about I call you something that you are not, to see how happy you are about it? No? Didn't think so...

As much has I hate the over used lines, Facts and feelings often have little to do with each other.

So what precise "fact" are you trying to put forward here?

[Tarsonis]

As much has I hate the over used lines, Facts and feelings often have little to do with each other.

So what precise "fact" are you trying to put forward here?

I already have. If you can't be expected to read, I can't be expected to repeat it to you.

[The New California Republic]

So what precise "fact" are you trying to put forward here?

I already have. If you can't be expected to read, I can't be expected to repeat it to you.

That it is a mental disorder?

[Tarsonis]

I already have. If you can't be expected to read, I can't be expected to repeat it to you.

That it is a mental disorder?

Gold star for you

[The New California Republic]

That it is a mental disorder?

Gold star for you

Pleasant.

Even though it was declassified as such?

[Novus America]

So the Church of England is going to offer baptism-style services to transgender people to celebrate their new identity for first time.

Not my own denomination, but I do love the idea of such a church ceremony to celebrate and welcome trans people!

"Do you reject the gender binary and all its empty promises?"

Except most transgender individuals are gender binary.
If gender did not exist, transgendered could not exist.

Most transgender persons believe they were born with a biological sex that does not correspond with their gender. But most still as identify as male or female.

[Tarsonis]

Gold star for you

Pleasant.

Even though it was declassified as such?

Do I seriously have to walk you through this again?

The "declassification" was done for sociological reasons, not because of what we'd consider legitimate scientific reasons. By all accounts, Gender Dysphoria meets all the criteria for Mental Disorder, but that carries stigma. The Article you cited openly admits the change is about curbing stigma, because stigma is a contributing factor, not because GD doesn't meet the criteria for a Mental Disorder.

[The New California Republic]

Even though it was declassified as such?

Do I seriously have to walk you through this again?

You didn't walk me through it before, so I really don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

The "declassification" was done for sociological reasons, not because of what we'd consider legitimate scientific reasons. By all accounts, Gender Dysphoria meets all the criteria for Mental Disorder, but that carries stigma. The Article you cited openly admits the change is about curbing stigma, because stigma is a contributing factor, not because GD doesn't meet the criteria for a Mental Disorder.

"It was taken out from the mental health disorders because we had a better understanding that this wasn't actually a mental health condition and leaving it there was causing stigma"

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/20/heal ... -ill-trnd/

So methinks you have flipped the situation on its head.

[Dumb Ideologies]

It relates to both mind and body. To class transgenderism as a mental illness involves a dualism in which body and mind are separated excessively, and the body - in strictly biologically defined terms - is asserted as arbiter of truth.

Except it is in this case. Biological reality is the normal arbiter of reality for 99.97% of the population. In the Case of GD, the Mind is at odds with the body in a way that is not supposed to be. Hence disorder.

The body is also at odds with the mind. Rather than body being dominant and determinant over mind in the majority of cases, it is merely a matter of both aligning on gender in the vast majority of cases. This does not predispose any particular reading on the question of one side or the other being "disordered" when they do not.

If the meaning of "mental disorder" is based merely on opinion and social construction rather than the fundamental nature of the thing (as you seem to be suggesting by this appeal to majority), surely the opinion of specialists and practitioners in the area should not be so casually set aside as "merely sociological".

For expertise may also be a social construct, but it's normal in society to defer to experts :^)

[Cesken]

Transgenderism is a disease and the only cure is a rifle.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Transgenderism is a disease and the only cure is a rifle.

I thought they weren't allowed to enlist in the military. Guess we're more open minded than I thought!

[Chrominus]

Transgenderism is a disease and the only cure is a rifle.

Not the right way to get rid of a social "illness"/stop the spread of information, the true cure in this case would be a campaign of terror. That being said, I ain't a disease, and even if i was there's more than the cure of a bullet to the head. You could also use compassion and understanding of the way society shifts the meaning of words to agree to disagree on transness being a disease/mental disorder.

[The Tomerlands]

Transgenderism is a disease and the only cure is a rifle.

Get ready to be banned fail troll.

[Cesken]

Transgenderism is a disease and the only cure is a rifle.

Get ready to be banned fail troll.

Banned for what? Sorry sir but article 13 does not affect the United States.

[Alvecia]

Get ready to be banned fail troll.

Banned for what? Sorry sir but article 13 does not affect the United States.

Forum rules

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Get ready to be banned fail troll.

Banned for what? Sorry sir but article 13 does not affect the United States.

'Banned' was a bit much, but I wouldn't be surprised if you get a warning from moderation. Blatant trolling is frowned on here.
If you have an argument to make, then make it, but otherwise, I don't see why we should listen to you.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Rifles are our Kryptonite. All other weaponry bounces off the T-Shield.

[Vassenor]

Get ready to be banned fail troll.

Banned for what? Sorry sir but article 13 does not affect the United States.

What does copyright have to do with this?

[The Tomerlands]

Banned for what? Sorry sir but article 13 does not affect the United States.

'Banned' was a bit much, but I wouldn't be surprised if you get a warning from moderation. Blatant trolling is frowned on here.
If you have an argument to make, then make it, but otherwise, I don't see why we should listen to you.

He's a troll/bigot. He should be banned in my opinion. Although I'm not a moderator so it really shouldn't be up for me to decide that.

[Cesken]

Banned for what? Sorry sir but article 13 does not affect the United States.

'Banned' was a bit much, but I wouldn't be surprised if you get a warning from moderation. Blatant trolling is frowned on here.
If you have an argument to make, then make it, but otherwise, I don't see why we should listen to you.

I'm not trolling, these are my actual beliefs. If you think I'm just saying it to anger people, you'd be wrong.

[Tarsonis]

Rifles are our Kryptonite. All other weaponry bounces off the T-Shield.

....I have an idea for a comic book...