Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

[New Greater Netherlands]

Genesis 1:27:

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

The part that you missed reads: "And those who are neither, both or something else altogether never were, never can and never shall be." Oh wait, it does not say that...

Huh?

[The New California Republic]

To be honest the non-literal metaphorical interpretation of the Bible as an excuse for the many strange things in it can only carry so far. I mean, what the hell does the "metaphor" about God creating Eve from one of Adam's ribs mean? Come to think of it, it means that Eve is actually a man in that case, as it implies that she is a clone of Adam, or at the very least used to be male. The metaphorical interpretation of the Bible just opens even more doors to absurdity.

The fact that one can take something too far does not mean that one should not ever do it at all; and similarly, the fact that one can adduce an absurd meaning to a metaphorically read passage does not invalidate other adduced meanings to said, metaphorically read passage. There are criteria for evaluating interpretations beyond a literal/metaphorical distinction. (Otherwise theology would be far more boring. )

I would ask how either a literal or metaphorical interpretation of the whole "Adam's Rib" thing, or a mix of the two, could possibly avoid leading to ridiculous and absurd conclusions, but that isn't the subject of this thread...

[Cekoviu]

For some reason, my voice kind of automatically adjusts to being higher and more feminine when I'm around my trans friends, but it is low and masculine around my family. That's not a conscious thing, by the way. Does that happen to anyone else?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

For some reason, my voice kind of automatically adjusts to being higher and more feminine when I'm around my trans friends, but it is low and masculine around my family. That's not a conscious thing, by the way. Does that happen to anyone else?

You're probably not entirely at ease with showing your family your true identity as you are with your transgender friends. I have a friend who's gay. When he's around his friends, his voice is more feminine and soft. When he's with family or around people he doesn't know, his voice becomes deep and ultra masculine. I don't know if that is a good analogy to make but perhaps you're still growing into your identity and struggle around your family. But since your trans friends know you as trans, there's no judgment or possible judgment and that makes you feel more at ease.

[Auzkhia]

For some reason, my voice kind of automatically adjusts to being higher and more feminine when I'm around my trans friends, but it is low and masculine around my family. That's not a conscious thing, by the way. Does that happen to anyone else?

Are you out to your family?

Being me with my family, especially extended relatives, I feel the need to fall my cissona, as I like to call it. Only my parents know, as I told them.

[Cekoviu]

For some reason, my voice kind of automatically adjusts to being higher and more feminine when I'm around my trans friends, but it is low and masculine around my family. That's not a conscious thing, by the way. Does that happen to anyone else?

You're probably not entirely at ease with showing your family your true identity as you are with your transgender friends. I have a friend who's gay. When he's around his friends, his voice is more feminine and soft. When he's with family or around people he doesn't know, his voice becomes deep and ultra masculine. I don't know if that is a good analogy to make but perhaps you're still growing into your identity and struggle around your family. But since your trans friends know you as trans, there's no judgment or possible judgment and that makes you feel more at ease.

That would make sense. I definitely feel more comfortable with my friends, so perhaps that's the case. Thanks.

For some reason, my voice kind of automatically adjusts to being higher and more feminine when I'm around my trans friends, but it is low and masculine around my family. That's not a conscious thing, by the way. Does that happen to anyone else?

Are you out to your family?

Being me with my family, especially extended relatives, I feel the need to fall my cissona, as I like to call it. Only my parents know, as I told them.

I am out to them, but I feel a little less open about it around them.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You're probably not entirely at ease with showing your family your true identity as you are with your transgender friends. I have a friend who's gay. When he's around his friends, his voice is more feminine and soft. When he's with family or around people he doesn't know, his voice becomes deep and ultra masculine. I don't know if that is a good analogy to make but perhaps you're still growing into your identity and struggle around your family. But since your trans friends know you as trans, there's no judgment or possible judgment and that makes you feel more at ease.

That would make sense. I definitely feel more comfortable with my friends, so perhaps that's the case. Thanks.

You're welcome. I struggle with my bisexual status at time. My mom knows, and she's cool with it. But no one else in my family knows so I have to be guarded in what I say and do around them. For whatever's worth, and I know it's not the same at all, I sort of get where you're coming from. Hang in there, Koviu.

[Auzkhia]

You're probably not entirely at ease with showing your family your true identity as you are with your transgender friends. I have a friend who's gay. When he's around his friends, his voice is more feminine and soft. When he's with family or around people he doesn't know, his voice becomes deep and ultra masculine. I don't know if that is a good analogy to make but perhaps you're still growing into your identity and struggle around your family. But since your trans friends know you as trans, there's no judgment or possible judgment and that makes you feel more at ease.

That would make sense. I definitely feel more comfortable with my friends, so perhaps that's the case. Thanks.

Are you out to your family?

Being me with my family, especially extended relatives, I feel the need to fall my cissona, as I like to call it. Only my parents know, as I told them.

I am out to them, but I feel a little less open about it around them.

As I said my parents know, but I still feel a bit reluctant to display it, I'm trying to, but I feel more comfortable with gender non-conformity in college than at home. Maybe I should just get over it and look all out androgynous as I want to. I'm growing out my hair and wearing make up regularly to add some femininity to my presentation.

[The New California Republic]

For some reason, my voice kind of automatically adjusts to being higher and more feminine when I'm around my trans friends, but it is low and masculine around my family. That's not a conscious thing, by the way. Does that happen to anyone else?

I have noticed that my sister's accent changes when in the presence of certain people. Instantaneous accent mimicry is a trait that can be observed in many people, even though the person themselves does not realize that they are doing it. A person's accent changes if they have been living in a different area for a few years, but this is something entirely different, it is an instant reaction. Perhaps in your case it is a pitch shift associated with mimicking the people that you are in the presence of, as I am sure that they will have slightly different vocal inflections.

[Cekoviu]

That would make sense. I definitely feel more comfortable with my friends, so perhaps that's the case. Thanks.

You're welcome. I struggle with my bisexual status at time. My mom knows, and she's cool with it. But no one else in my family knows so I have to be guarded in what I say and do around them. For whatever's worth, and I know it's not the same at all, I sort of get where you're coming from. Hang in there, Koviu.

Yeah, I know what you mean.
There's another nickname! I need to make a list of these.

[Cekoviu]

For some reason, my voice kind of automatically adjusts to being higher and more feminine when I'm around my trans friends, but it is low and masculine around my family. That's not a conscious thing, by the way. Does that happen to anyone else?

I have noticed that my sister's accent changes when in the presence of certain people. Instantaneous accent mimicry is a trait that can be observed in many people, even though the person themselves does not realize that they are doing it. A person's accent changes if they have been living in a different area for a few years, but this is something entirely different, it is an instant reaction. Perhaps in your case it is a pitch shift associated with mimicking the people that you are in the presence of, as I am sure that they will have slightly different vocal inflections.

Yeah, I've heard of that. Hillary Clinton kind of seems to do it, as SNL joked about. It's possible that that could be the case, but I still do it around my friends with low voices as well, so I'm not sure that's the whole story.

[Khasinkonia]

For some reason, my voice kind of automatically adjusts to being higher and more feminine when I'm around my trans friends, but it is low and masculine around my family. That's not a conscious thing, by the way. Does that happen to anyone else?

I have noticed that my sister's accent changes when in the presence of certain people. Instantaneous accent mimicry is a trait that can be observed in many people, even though the person themselves does not realize that they are doing it. A person's accent changes if they have been living in a different area for a few years, but this is something entirely different, it is an instant reaction. Perhaps in your case it is a pitch shift associated with mimicking the people that you are in the presence of, as I am sure that they will have slightly different vocal inflections.

It’s very possible code switching is happening.. I certainly do. My voice goes from being high because it’s effeminate at school with friends and my father’s house to being high because it’s extremely nasally at my mother’s. And my accent changes too

[Grenartia]

Ok let me expand 1. I am writing this because of science. 2. More specifically, anatomy and biology even agree: you're a boy, or you are a girl. 3. You have a penis, or you have a vagina.

4. What I am getting at here is that a person cannot identify as something that does not exist. I attempted to wrap my head around the idea that there are people out there half a bubble off plumb enough to think that they are something other than male or female.


5. The things that I stumbled upon was stupid I read these so-called genders and their definitions, and I think my IQ dropped. These are not "genders" because "genders" are physical.

6. These are conceptions of life, personalities, disorders, and afflictions. 7. Oh yes, I'm aware that those are hurtful words, and this is a "mean" post. 8. I'm sure I will be told more than once that I am 'wrong' and that gender is 'fluid' but it will have no effect on me, because I know I am correct.

9. Gender is not a matter of opinion; it's a scientific fact. Penis or vagina, vagina or penis? 10. Pink or blue, not green, not purple.

1. Don't go dragging science into this and expecting to come out triumphant. We actually have science on our side.

2. Sex =/= gender. Biology, psychology, and the medical field all agree.

3. Except for intersex people.

4. Prove it doesn't exist.

5. Sure, I can understand that if you went to MOGAI Archive, but that's because only trolls and the highly gullible contribute to that. Nobody in the trans community takes "racecargender" seriously.

6. Not according to the experts.

7. Even worse, its factually incorrect.

8. Even if scientific evidence to the contrary is presented?

9. Sure, the fact that gender exists is not an opinion. But you cannot truly determine somebody's gender by looking at their genitals or chromosomes. No single person's gender can be objectively determined any more than their favorite color can be, and for the exact same reasons.

10. The fact that you're associating colors and genders at all is proof that gender isn't biological. Its a psycho-social phenomenon. A century ago, pink was a boy's color, and blue was for girls. And I'm sure if I wanted to, I could find examples of cultures where different colors have been associated with different genders.

[Imdumb]

I like trains

[Grenartia]

Why is penis male, and vulva female? Biological sex isn't just genitalia, see intersex.

Because some people decided it were. Some nations had a tradition of more than two genders, such as two spirit in many Native American and First Nation communities and Hijras in India. In those communities, they will disagree with you, because their cultures do not follow the western binary.

1. Because it's biology. Just because exceptions exist doesn't suddenly make the distinctions between male and female a fabrication of mankind.

2. Transgender implies you are the opposite of the biological sex you were born under. You can only be opposite something if both genders involved have set definitions. 3. So it is contradictory to claim that 'hey, what makes penis = male; vaginas = female?'. Because those are very basically included in the definitions of those words. If they weren't, you wouldn't be trans anything. The words trans and cis would be meaningless because you wouldn't have a reference point for either term. We'd basically have to create our own individual genders.

1. Who was arguing otherwise?

2. Close, but no cigar. It refers to anyone who's gender identity doesn't exclusively match up with the one traditionally associated with their sex assigned at birth. Sure, many transgender people have a gender "opposite" the one expected for their sex, but not all of us do, and the whole "opposite" terminology is rooted in a bit of cisheterosexism, to be entirely honest.

3. Except for when you're speaking in a context where chromosomes matter, and the person's genitalia don't correspond with the chromosomes traditionally associated with said genitalia. I.E., women with CAIS, who were born with vaginas, but have XY chromosomes, or men with XX chromosomes, but also have the SRY gene, that caused them to develop as phenotypically male.

Any model which doesn't adequately describe phenomenon it is supposed to describe is a faulty model that must be revised. The binary model of sex is faulty, as the existence of intersex individuals proves.

[New Nukia]

Ok let me expand 1. I am writing this because of science. 2. More specifically, anatomy and biology even agree: you're a boy, or you are a girl. 3. You have a penis, or you have a vagina. 4. What I am getting at here is that a person cannot identify as something that does not exist. I attempted to wrap my head around the idea that there are people out there half a bubble off plumb enough to think that they are something other than male or female. 5. The things that I stumbled upon was stupid I read these so-called genders and their definitions, and I think my IQ dropped. These are not "genders" because "genders" are physical. 6. These are conceptions of life, personalities, disorders, and afflictions. 7. Oh yes, I'm aware that those are hurtful words, and this is a "mean" post. 8. I'm sure I will be told more than once that I am 'wrong' and that gender is 'fluid' but it will have no effect on me, because I know I am correct. 9. Gender is not a matter of opinion; it's a scientific fact. Penis or vagina, vagina or penis? 10. Pink or blue, not green, not purple.

1. Don't go dragging science into this and expecting to come out triumphant. We actually have science on our side.
2. Sex =/= gender. Biology, psychology, and the medical field all agree.
3. Except for intersex people.
4. Prove it doesn't exist.
5. Sure, I can understand that if you went to MOGAI Archive, but that's because only trolls and the highly gullible contribute to that. Nobody in the trans community takes "racecargender" seriously.
6. Not according to the experts.
7. Even worse, its factually incorrect.
8. Even if scientific evidence to the contrary is presented?
9. Sure, the fact that gender exists is not an opinion. But you cannot truly determine somebody's gender by looking at their genitals or chromosomes. No single person's gender can be objectively determined any more than their favorite color can be, and for the exact same reasons.
10. The fact that you're associating colors and genders at all is proof that gender isn't biological. Its a psycho-social phenomenon. A century ago, pink was a boy's color, and blue was for girls. And I'm sure if I wanted to, I could find examples of cultures where different colors have been associated with different genders.

1. You start with science being on your side, yet at the same time, your entire belief is based on the idea that gender is not objective but subjective, and therefore it would not be within the bounds of science.
2. In other words, scientists--particularly those who want to make money from transsexuals--are on your side. Facts are not on your side.
3. I wonder what % of "intersex" in the LGBTIAQ++ movement are actually not naturally hermaphrodites, but instead had surgery to accomplish this outcome.
4. How do you prove that a gender or sex other than male, female, or hermaphrodite exists? By the way, MtF/FtM are not actual genders but mental disorders that prove their own invalidity. They cannot be transgender if they identify as one of them, rather than the gender to which they changed.
5. How about the New York City genders listing? If you misgender someone who identifies as a "two-spirit," you get a $200K fine.
6 and 7: Lol, you sound like you're denying reality.
8. Just because a girl acts a little more like a guy when she plays a video game doesn't mean she's not still a girl.
9 and 10. Imagine being stupid enough to believe that your subjectively extant genders which exist only in the feelings and emotions of people are objectively extant. You don't know what "objective" means.

[Grenartia]

There is no reason why one would have to reach that conclusion by necessity. I don't. And many other Christians, especially queer Christians, don't.

1. Considering the Bible as Holy does not imply the view that all of it is to be taken literally (and this point has been recognized since the early days of the church). 2. Even if one takes the Bible to be read only literally, it simply says no-where explicitly that there are *only* two genders. You have to make some interpretative moves before you arrive there.

See, holding or looking to a book as holy, but at the same time not holding the view that it should NOT be taken literally is an oxymoron. I’m stating this based on my time in conservative and far-right Christianity(I also spend some time in progressive Christianity). Many Christians view the “fact” that God made Adam, a cisgender man, and Eve, a cisgender woman that is the only possible and vaild genders there are.

Hot takes:

Eve was a transwoman, Christ was a transman.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

See, holding or looking to a book as holy, but at the same time not holding the view that it should NOT be taken literally is an oxymoron. I’m stating this based on my time in conservative and far-right Christianity(I also spend some time in progressive Christianity). Many Christians view the “fact” that God made Adam, a cisgender man, and Eve, a cisgender woman that is the only possible and vaild genders there are.

Hot takes:

Eve was a transwoman, Christ was a transman.

I personally don’t view those characters as trans, but if that is your takeaway, okay. I don’t see it, personally.

[Grenartia]

cissona

That's actually an amazing word.

1. You start with science being on your side, yet at the same time, your entire belief is based on the idea that gender is not objective but subjective, and therefore it would not be within the bounds of science.
2. In other words, scientists--particularly those who want to make money from transsexuals--are on your side. Facts are not on your side.
3. I wonder what % of "intersex" in the LGBTIAQ++ movement are actually not naturally hermaphrodites, but instead had surgery to accomplish this outcome.
4a. How do you prove that a gender or sex other than male, female, or hermaphrodite exists? 4b. By the way, MtF/FtM are not actual genders but mental disorders that prove their own invalidity. 4c. They cannot be transgender if they identify as one of them, rather than the gender to which they changed.
5. How about the New York City genders listing? If you misgender someone who identifies as a "two-spirit," you get a $200K fine.
6 and 7: Lol, you sound like you're denying reality.
8. Just because a girl acts a little more like a guy when she plays a video game doesn't mean she's not still a girl.
9 and 10. Imagine being stupid enough to believe that your subjectively extant genders which exist only in the feelings and emotions of people are objectively extant. You don't know what "objective" means.

1. Welcome to the world of psychology, where the only possible way to objectively determine what's in somebody's head would involve highly unethical experimentation (and even then, it wouldn't be guaranteed). Just about the only thing that could objectively determine what's in somebody's thoughts would be to create some sort of direct brain-computer interface (i.e., that spike from the Matrix, or something). Absent that, its mostly just introspection.

2. They weren't on our sides at first. Or else they'd still be "treating" us with shock therapy and castration and shit like that, and making their money that way. Your snide insinuation just got riggity riggity REKT, son.

3. Actually, I've inquired about such a surgical outcome, both on google, and through people who would know, and from what I can gather, no such procedure exists. There's surgeries for binary trans people, and surgeries for intersex people to have dyadic (i.e., non-intersex) phenotypes, but no dyadic to intersex procedures. Unless there's some doctor doing some highly experimental and unpublicized shit in some internet-less hellhole.

4a. Their millenia of documentation in cultures across the world. It was as universal as laughter, or crying.

4b. Doesn't meet the criteria for a mental disorder. Sorry to burst your bubble.

4c. What kind of mental gymnastics are you running?

5. Lolwat.

6, 7. Funny, I could say the exact same about you.

8. That has nothing to do with what I said.

9, 10. Imagine being this ignorant of basic psychology.

[Auzkhia]

See, holding or looking to a book as holy, but at the same time not holding the view that it should NOT be taken literally is an oxymoron. I’m stating this based on my time in conservative and far-right Christianity(I also spend some time in progressive Christianity). Many Christians view the “fact” that God made Adam, a cisgender man, and Eve, a cisgender woman that is the only possible and vaild genders there are.

Hot takes:

Eve was a transwoman, Christ was a transman.

Eve was made with a ribbone, and she would have been XY chromosome, if you were to look at the genetic make up of ribbones; and a virgin birth would mean that Jesus was XX chromosome.

cissona

That's actually an amazing word.

Thanks, i got it from someone else here on this thread, I liked it too, so made it catch.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

Lilly Singh is hilarious.

[Vassenor]

1. Don't go dragging science into this and expecting to come out triumphant. We actually have science on our side.
2. Sex =/= gender. Biology, psychology, and the medical field all agree.
3. Except for intersex people.
4. Prove it doesn't exist.
5. Sure, I can understand that if you went to MOGAI Archive, but that's because only trolls and the highly gullible contribute to that. Nobody in the trans community takes "racecargender" seriously.
6. Not according to the experts.
7. Even worse, its factually incorrect.
8. Even if scientific evidence to the contrary is presented?
9. Sure, the fact that gender exists is not an opinion. But you cannot truly determine somebody's gender by looking at their genitals or chromosomes. No single person's gender can be objectively determined any more than their favorite color can be, and for the exact same reasons.
10. The fact that you're associating colors and genders at all is proof that gender isn't biological. Its a psycho-social phenomenon. A century ago, pink was a boy's color, and blue was for girls. And I'm sure if I wanted to, I could find examples of cultures where different colors have been associated with different genders.

1. You start with science being on your side, yet at the same time, your entire belief is based on the idea that gender is not objective but subjective, and therefore it would not be within the bounds of science.
2. In other words, scientists--particularly those who want to make money from transsexuals--are on your side. Facts are not on your side.
3. I wonder what % of "intersex" in the LGBTIAQ++ movement are actually not naturally hermaphrodites, but instead had surgery to accomplish this outcome.
4. How do you prove that a gender or sex other than male, female, or hermaphrodite exists? By the way, MtF/FtM are not actual genders but mental disorders that prove their own invalidity. They cannot be transgender if they identify as one of them, rather than the gender to which they changed.
5. How about the New York City genders listing? If you misgender someone who identifies as a "two-spirit," you get a $200K fine.
6 and 7: Lol, you sound like you're denying reality.
8. Just because a girl acts a little more like a guy when she plays a video game doesn't mean she's not still a girl.
9 and 10. Imagine being stupid enough to believe that your subjectively extant genders which exist only in the feelings and emotions of people are objectively extant. You don't know what "objective" means.

If you're going to claim that facts and science are on your side it normally helps if you provide actual citations in support of your arguments.

[Luna Amore]

1. Because it's biology. Just because exceptions exist doesn't suddenly make the distinctions between male and female a fabrication of mankind.

2. Transgender implies you are the opposite of the biological sex you were born under. You can only be opposite something if both genders involved have set definitions. 3. So it is contradictory to claim that 'hey, what makes penis = male; vaginas = female?'. Because those are very basically included in the definitions of those words. If they weren't, you wouldn't be trans anything. The words trans and cis would be meaningless because you wouldn't have a reference point for either term. We'd basically have to create our own individual genders.

1. Who was arguing otherwise?

2. Close, but no cigar. It refers to anyone who's gender identity doesn't exclusively match up with the one traditionally associated with their sex assigned at birth. Sure, many transgender people have a gender "opposite" the one expected for their sex, but not all of us do, and the whole "opposite" terminology is rooted in a bit of cisheterosexism, to be entirely honest.

3. Except for when you're speaking in a context where chromosomes matter, and the person's genitalia don't correspond with the chromosomes traditionally associated with said genitalia. I.E., women with CAIS, who were born with vaginas, but have XY chromosomes, or men with XX chromosomes, but also have the SRY gene, that caused them to develop as phenotypically male.

4. Any model which doesn't adequately describe phenomenon it is supposed to describe is a faulty model that must be revised. The binary model of sex is faulty, as the existence of intersex individuals proves.

1. You do. Later in this post. And the poster I originally responded to.

2. Seriously? This right here is what I started talking about in the first place. That's what the prefix 'trans' means. There's no offense there, but apparently it's rooted in cisheterosexism, a term that made my eyes gloss over and wish I never bothered to interact with this thread in the first place. You are throwing up walls for literally no reason. This is a bad approach. It ingrains an 'us vs them' mentality and that is just a terrible way to get integrated into society. It's like you are trying to make enemies.

3. Those are exceptions. People can be born with two heads or 11 fingers, that doesn't suddenly mean describing a human as a one-headed creature with 10 fingers is wrong.

4. But it isn't. The term intersex exists and fits within the model of two sexes as an exception.

[Grenartia]

1. Who was arguing otherwise?

2. Close, but no cigar. It refers to anyone who's gender identity doesn't exclusively match up with the one traditionally associated with their sex assigned at birth. Sure, many transgender people have a gender "opposite" the one expected for their sex, but not all of us do, and the whole "opposite" terminology is rooted in a bit of cisheterosexism, to be entirely honest.

3. Except for when you're speaking in a context where chromosomes matter, and the person's genitalia don't correspond with the chromosomes traditionally associated with said genitalia. I.E., women with CAIS, who were born with vaginas, but have XY chromosomes, or men with XX chromosomes, but also have the SRY gene, that caused them to develop as phenotypically male.

4. Any model which doesn't adequately describe phenomenon it is supposed to describe is a faulty model that must be revised. The binary model of sex is faulty, as the existence of intersex individuals proves.

1. You do. Later in this post.

2a. Seriously? This right here is what I started talking about in the first place. That's what the prefix 'trans' means. 2b. There's no offense there, but apparently it's rooted in cisheterosexism, 2c. a term that made my eyes gloss over and 2d. wish I never bothered to interact with this thread in the first place. 2e. You are throwing up walls for literally no reason. This is a bad approach. It ingrains an 'us vs them' mentality and that is just a terrible way to get integrated into society. It's like you are trying to make enemies.

3. Those are exceptions. People can be born with two heads or 11 fingers, that doesn't suddenly mean describing a human as a one-headed creature with 10 fingers is wrong.

4. But it isn't. The term intersex exists and fits within the model of two sexes as an exception.

1. I never said or implied it was a "fabrication of mankind". Simply that those distinctions need to be placed in a wider context than they currently are.

2a. "a prefix meaning “on the other side of,” referring to the misalignment of one’s gender identity with one's biological sex assigned at birth:"

I fail to see how the underlined is functionally much different from the definition I gave.

2b. The definition you gave certainly restricts the view of human sexuality and gender to an inadequate Complimentarianistic model.

2c. And...? Half the shit the transphobes that pop in here saying gives me the same reaction.

2d. I'm sorry you feel that way.

2e. How am I "throwing up walls"? Against who am I doing that to? For what reason am I doing it?

3. Honestly, the more apt comparison would be having red hair or green eyes.

4. If your model of two sexes needs a 3rd category to adequately explain observed reality, your model is shitty and needs revision. Its as stupid and overly simplistic as a particle physicist saying everything is either a proton or an electron, or some nebulous 3rd category that serves as a catchall for all the shit that is an exception.

P. S. You're getting overly heated here. I suggest you take a nice walk outside, do some breathing exercises, and come back when you've calmed down. No need in a member of the site's staff getting a black mark on their record if it can be avoided.

[Luna Amore]

1. You do. Later in this post.

2a. Seriously? This right here is what I started talking about in the first place. That's what the prefix 'trans' means. 2b. There's no offense there, but apparently it's rooted in cisheterosexism, 2c. a term that made my eyes gloss over and 2d. wish I never bothered to interact with this thread in the first place. 2e. You are throwing up walls for literally no reason. This is a bad approach. It ingrains an 'us vs them' mentality and that is just a terrible way to get integrated into society. It's like you are trying to make enemies.

3. Those are exceptions. People can be born with two heads or 11 fingers, that doesn't suddenly mean describing a human as a one-headed creature with 10 fingers is wrong.

4. But it isn't. The term intersex exists and fits within the model of two sexes as an exception.

1. I never said or implied it was a "fabrication of mankind". Simply that those distinctions need to be placed in a wider context than they currently are.

2a. "a prefix meaning “on the other side of,” referring to the misalignment of one’s gender identity with one's biological sex assigned at birth:"

I fail to see how the underlined is functionally much different from the definition I gave.

2b. The definition you gave certainly restricts the view of human sexuality and gender to an inadequate Complimentarianistic model.

2c. And...? Half the shit the transphobes that pop in here saying gives me the same reaction.

2d. I'm sorry you feel that way.

2e. How am I "throwing up walls"? Against who am I doing that to? For what reason am I doing it?

3. Honestly, the more apt comparison would be having red hair or green eyes.

4. If your model of two sexes needs a 3rd category to adequately explain observed reality, your model is shitty and needs revision. Its as stupid and overly simplistic as a particle physicist saying everything is either a proton or an electron, or some nebulous 3rd category that serves as a catchall for all the shit that is an exception.

1. The first poster said it is the way it is because 'some guy said so' implying it's just a fabrication. If I incorrectly read your response as support of that, I apologize.

2. You need a five part response to me saying trans means opposite despite 'on the other side of' being right there in the definition. You said it was cisheterosexism. That right there is an unnecessary wall of language. Which is pretty common around here I'm seeing. Considering the serious issues facing the trans-community, I would think being unnecessarily critical of benign language would be low on the priority list. The deck chairs are fine, get to the lifeboats.

4. The third sex is catchall because it incorporates features of the other two. It's not some independent third different thing. A person may have characteristics of both sexes. Those are still either characteristics of male or female.

P. S. You're getting overly heated here. I suggest you take a nice walk outside, do some breathing exercises, and come back when you've calmed down. No need in a member of the site's staff getting a black mark on their record if it can be avoided.

This is quite possibly the most self-righteous tactic people take online. Don't like what someone is saying? Just claim they are getting 'heated'. It paints you in good light and paints me as a frothing at the mouth rageaholic who's fresh out of rageahol. Nothing in what I've posted suggests I am overly heated. I've managed to maintain composure on this forum for a decade and a half. I can do without the tips.