Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

[Socialist Nordia]

About the second story, either:

A. This kid is trans and is consistently misgendered in it so the article is rubbish and doesn’t belong in this thread or

B. The kid is not trans and just has a drag hobby, so it doesn’t belong in this thread.

I don't think the Independent would misgender a trans person, so it's probably the latter.

Why can’t people differentiate between transgender people and drag queens? I mean, it’s not hard, they’re different things.

[Sharania]

About the second story, either:

A. This kid is trans and is consistently misgendered in it so the article is rubbish and doesn’t belong in this thread or

B. The kid is not trans and just has a drag hobby, so it doesn’t belong in this thread.

This thread excludes LGBT+ activists?

[Khasinkonia]

Hi, guys. My name's Aaron (soon-to-be Erin), and I'm a returning NSer that had also recently came out as MTF transgender. I love websites like this where you can be provided information on tough topics like transitioning or passing (still can't do the voice but the walk is fabulously perfect~). For the longest time I had trouble finding reliable sites to get some of this info from, but I realized that it wasn't for lack of trying; it was rather a lack of self-acceptance. I may still struggle with that from time to time, what you have said and done to get the information out there has moved me and my foundation of trying to hide it, and although I still have social anxiety on crossdressing while still physically a male or other such acts, I will try to move swiftly with my transitioning processes. Again, thank you, and I'll see you around.

I wish you best of luck, my friend!

[Grenartia]

Okay, I did Grenartia's.
x: ±1.38
y: ±39.23

Cool.

I've made a Desmos thingy that will calculate your values so I don't have to do it from now on. Replace the variables with your values and round the results to the nearest hundredth: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/ogv7wugutd
Also, change the coefficients to be negative if you think you would fit better with negative results.

Thanks.

About the second story, either:

A. This kid is trans and is consistently misgendered in it so the article is rubbish and doesn’t belong in this thread or

B. The kid is not trans and just has a drag hobby, so it doesn’t belong in this thread.

This thread excludes LGBT+ activists?

No, its just that this is the Transgender Discussion Thread. Drag =/= transgender.

[Aellex]

Why can’t people differentiate between transgender people and drag queens? I mean, it’s not hard, they’re different things.

What's the difference tho?
As for the kid, it seems like he's in urgent need of child protection service because not 8 to 10 year old will come up by himself with this shit so hid parents are most likely to blame.

[Vassenor]

Why can’t people differentiate between transgender people and drag queens? I mean, it’s not hard, they’re different things.

What's the difference tho?
As for the kid, it seems like he's in urgent need of child protection service because not 8 to 10 year old will come up by himself with this shit so hid parents are most likely to blame.

How do you know that kids can't come up with something like that by themselves?

[Aellex]

How do you know that kids can't come up with something like that by themselves?

Because they're fucking kids. He's not even old enough to have started his puberty, don't bullshit me that he is to have become a """kinderdrag activist""" all on his own.

[Socialist Nordia]

Why can’t people differentiate between transgender people and drag queens? I mean, it’s not hard, they’re different things.

What's the difference tho?
As for the kid, it seems like he's in urgent need of child protection service because not 8 to 10 year old will come up by himself with this shit so hid parents are most likely to blame.

The difference is that transgender people actively identify as a gender different from their assigned sex at birth. Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and often medically or socially transition in order to alleviate it.

Drag queens don’t have any of this. They just like dressing up as the opposite gender as a hobby.

And you are seriously underestimating the ability of a child to come up with stuff on their own. I don’t know how often you’re around children, but I’ve seen even younger kids who are very adamant about oddly specific or unusual things, and who come up with all sorts of crazy ideas.

[Aellex]

The difference is that transgender people actively identify as a gender different from their assigned sex at birth. Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and often medically or socially transition in order to alleviate it.

Drag queens don’t have any of this. They just like dressing up as the opposite gender as a hobby.

So in other words cosplayers vs cross dressers. That seems like quite the slim difference, tbh.

And you are seriously underestimating the ability of a child to come up with stuff on their own. I don’t know how often you’re around children, but I’ve seen even younger kids who are very adamant about oddly specific or unusual things, and who come up with all sorts of crazy ideas.

[Philjia]

The difference is that transgender people actively identify as a gender different from their assigned sex at birth. Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and often medically or socially transition in order to alleviate it.

Drag queens don’t have any of this. They just like dressing up as the opposite gender as a hobby.

So in other words cosplayers vs cross dressers. That seems like quite the slim difference, tbh.

One's a man dressed as a woman, one's a woman.

[Dumb Ideologies]

The difference is that transgender people actively identify as a gender different from their assigned sex at birth. Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and often medically or socially transition in order to alleviate it.

Drag queens don’t have any of this. They just like dressing up as the opposite gender as a hobby.

So in other words cosplayers vs cross dressers. That seems like quite the slim difference, tbh.

It's not really an apt comparison to highlight the distinction. Identifying permanently as something, struggles with dysphoria and going through a transition process isn't a performance hobby.

Cosplayers don't permanently identify as the characters they perform as, just as cross dressers don't. Cosplay - costume "play". The two frequently merge into crossplay of course, as many people's internet search histories will attest.

[Sharania]

No, its just that this is the Transgender Discussion Thread. Drag =/= transgender.

Why can’t people differentiate between transgender people and drag queens? I mean, it’s not hard, they’re different things.

What's the difference tho?
As for the kid, it seems like he's in urgent need of child protection service because not 8 to 10 year old will come up by himself with this shit so hid parents are most likely to blame.

Wait a sec! I’m not some idiot bigot to equate the two! My post contained links to two articles. I was asking (in the context of the both articles linked) about your opinion about the whole issue and sharing my reservations about it.


About Desmond Napoles – what’s your (and Aallexe’s) beef with him? Why both of you are dismissing him and his activism out of hand? Who is to decide what issues and instances about LGBTQ+ activism are not to be discussed on this thread? Who says that the allies should be excluded?

From Desmond’s bio page:

Desmond was born in June 2007, during NYC Pride Week, at St. Vincent’s Hospital in Manhattan. As he tells it, this means that he “is a member of the Village People by default”. He has also claimed that he “came out of the closet when he was born”. Desmond has a loving family and lives in New York City with his father, mother, and many pets. He also has an older sister. Desmond’s nickname at home is Desi.

As a toddler and preschooler, he enjoyed playing dress up by taking bed sheets, towels, bubble wrap, his mother’s t-shirts, and anything else he could use to make his own outfits, dresses, and “wigs”. He would endlessly clomp up and down the hallway in his mother’s high heels (and still does). He enjoyed playing with Barbie dolls, play kitchen, toy trains, maps, video games, and coloring books. Although he loves going to the park and playground, he never took an interest in playing sports. At age five, Desmond began taking ballet.

At age six, Desmond expressed boundless joy when he received an Elsa costume from Disney’s movie “Frozen” for Halloween. After that, he often asked for princess costumes or dresses while out shopping. Soon, he often wanted to wear his dresses outside of the home. Initially uncertain if they were making the right decision for allowing him to do so, Desmond’s parents quickly and fortunately realized that the source of their uneasiness came not from Desmond’s personal choices, but from their own misgivings about how the outside world would react. It was as simple as defeating those feelings, accepting Desmond as he is, and respecting Desmond’s own tastes and preferences.

Desmond’s parents also consulted a therapist who said the best thing to do would be to neither discourage, nor encourage, but rather to allow Desmond to develop naturally. Therefore, rather than ostracize, punish, or shame him, force him to play with certain toys, or restrict him to boys only costumes and clothing while playing dress up, Desmond’s parents allowed him to inherently progress, explore, and choose his tastes in clothing, toys, and activities on his own. He had developed his gender identity as non-conforming, or gender fluid, as a young child. He is not, nor has the desire to become, transgender. From early on, he has said that he is a boy who enjoys dressing up as a girl.

His mother likens her support of Desmond’s interests and activities as being similar to that of a mother who supports her son’s interest in sports. Both scenarios are unconditional acts of love for their children and recognition of their child as an individual.

Soon, Desmond also began to show an interest in performing in his own choice of outfits, often including dresses and wigs. His first big break came in 2014 when he was featured alongside the B-52’s lead singer, Fred Schneider, in RuPaul’s Drag Race season 5 winner Jinkx Monsoon’s music video for the song, “The Bacon Shake”. This was Desmond’s first time playing a character in “drag” and he loved it. It ignited a passion within him for entertaining others, as well as an understanding of how important it is for people of all ages to express themselves the way they want to.

Desmond has been the undisputed and most beloved young star of NYC Pride since 2015 when he danced his way into everyone’s hearts at the NYC Pride March in his choice of a rainbow tutu and sparkly gold beret. Overnight, Desmond’s story was featured on NewNowNext, Yahoo, Perez Hilton, and Out Magazine. Quickly, he became an internet sensation and was well-known by millions worldwide. Desmond’s mother’s acquaintance created a Facebook Fan Page, called “Desmond is Amazing” to share his continuing journey with others. The name stuck, and Desmond decided to use it as his official stage name. He has named his fans his "Amazies" and is extremely grateful for their continued love and support.

People were delighted to see a child who was accepted and able to be who they wanted to be, something that very few people have had the freedom as children to do. Even in our modern society, it is all too common for parents to treat their children as mini versions of themselves. They allow their child to wear only what the parent selects, play with toys the parent believes is most appropriate for the child’s gender, force the child’s interests with what is widely socially accepted, and stress that the child’s values and ideas should only align with their own.

Desmond’s personal drag style has evolved over the years. Currently, he is most influenced by the colorful club kids of 1990s NYC nightlife, RuPaul and the queens of RuPaul’s Drag Race, the artists Andy Warhol and Keith Haring, the disco divas of the 1970s, fashion designers Alexander McQueen, Comme des Garçons, Vivienne Westwood, John Galliano, Thierry Mugler, and Betsey Johnson, and the Blitz Kids of 1980’s London. He is exceedingly creative and designs his own outfits which his mother helps bring to life. His signature piece is original one-of-a-kind headdresses. He has termed his style “androgynously” and “avant drag”. He is constantly pushing the boundaries of fashion and stepping outside of the box. He applauds those who create their own outfits, something he calls “DIY drag”. Desmond was declared “The World’s Youngest Club Kid” due to his unique and unconventional style.

Desmond prefers to be called a “drag kid”, rather than a “drag queen”, although he is accepting of the fact that the media almost exclusively refers to him as a “10-year old drag queen”. He believes that the term “queen” should be reserved for adult drag performers. Although he wants everyone to express themselves as genuinely as possible, he is concerned about the growing trend of young teen and child drag performers to dress or act overly sexy or provocatively, much like their adult counterparts. He feels that it sends the wrong message about all young drag performers and results in added aggression, bullying, and hatred, not only from society, but from within the LGBTQ community itself. Although an often controversial topic, he would personally like to see more young people discovering a drag style that speaks to their personal truth, but is at the same time, more age appropriate.

Desmond no longer has an active interest in ballet, but he still loves dancing. He is the youngest member of the Iconic House of UltraOmni, as Desmond UltraOmni. The Iconic House of UltraOmni was founded by Ballroom Icon, Pioneer and Hall of Famer Kevin Omni and Tommy Dimples in 1979. The house is one of the original New York City voguing houses. The current father of the house is Sydney UltraOmni. Desmond walks BQ European Runway and is also starting to learn New Way Vogue. He considers freedom of self-expression to be his favorite aspect of the ballroom scene.

Since 2015, Desmond has remained a public source of hope and inspiration for many, especially in the LGBTQ community. He has been featured and mentioned in numerous magazines and online media sites including NewNowNext, Mic, Out Magazine, The Village Voice, World of Wonder's WOW Report and WOW Presents, Go Magazine, Vogue, Teen Vogue, Buzzfeed, Perez Hilton, Yahoo and Yahoo Beauty, LogoTV, Boys By Girls, Hardy Zine, Konbini, InStyle, Huffpost, Access Hollywood, Slate, Time Out NYC, Qwear Fashion, Bustle, BoyCulture, Broadway World, Paper Magazine, Gayly, Daily Mail UK, The Cut, The Advocate, Gay City News, Pride.com, The New Yorker, Google Show Up Stories, and many more around the world. Desmond was a guest talent at RuPaul's DragCon NYC 2017.

Now, at 10-years old, Desmond is an unapologetic and outspoken openly gay youth. Around first grade, Desmond began having normal childhood crushes, not on girls, but on other boys. A few years later, he confided to his mother about his crushes and said that he felt different than other boys in his class. He asked many questions, to which his mother explained the diverse types of relationships people may want to have when they are older. At age nine, Desmond told his parents that he is gay. This does not mean that he is sexually active, as he has not reached puberty yet, nor has he reached the age where sexual relations are appropriate or discussed explicitly.

To Desmond, being gay means that he is certain that he would like to have a boyfriend someday, not a girlfriend. As he gets older, he has been increasingly adamant about his choice and identity. He feels less different after meeting and speaking with other boys his age who also feel that they are gay. He has met several older members of the LGBTQ community who have related that they also had the same feelings when they were younger. In addition, he has met parents of gay individuals that said that they knew that their children were gay from an early age or from the beginning.

Desmond is already a notable LGBTQ activist and advocate. He was motivated by the discrimination, hatred, intrusion, hacking, outrage, and public slander that his family faced, and continues to face, after his story went viral in 2015. He feels greatly affected and saddened when he reads about or sees reports of homophobia, violence, bullying, and rejection against members of the LGBTQ community. He is concerned about the resulting high suicide rate among young people. So, he decided on his own to use his public visibility, not to focus on how fabulous and famous a drag kid he is, but to reach out and personally help other LGBTQ youth.

He is actively invested in spreading his message of unconditional acceptance, pride, and love. He aspires to be a powerful example for other young people like himself, influence positive change in the LGBTQ community, fight for equal rights, advocate for anti-bullying programs, and be the hope that generations of people before him were denied. He wants other young people to express themselves and embrace the same level of self-confidence, bravery, and self-acceptance that he embodies. He endlessly announces that it is okay to be who you are, with his personal motto being, “Be Yourself, Always”.

In June 2017, Desmond attended the memorial rally at the Stonewall National Monument in remembrance of the victims of the Orlando Pulse shooting. Along with Studio 54 drag legend Dame Rollerena, he read several of the names of those who were killed. At the 2017 NYC Pride Rally, Desmond wrote and gave a speech about what Pride means to him. In October 2017, he was honored to be chosen as the “Child Honor Godfather” of ONG LGBT España’s anti-bulling, violence, and discrimination project, #PorUnFuturoSinViolencia. He also consistently speaks about believing in yourself, despite criticism and bullying, in his frequent interviews and media coverage, with the hope of helping others.

In July, he was the awarded the Marsha P. Johnson Don’t be Outraged, Be Outrageous Award – “Marsha P. Johnson was a longtime activist for LGBT rights. A veteran of the Stonewall Era, she was always on the frontline fighting for the cause. This award honors an individual or group who uses outlandish creativity to shine a light on an issue facing our community. This symbolizes the community at its most original.” In his acceptance speech, Desmond thanked his mother, the House of UltraOmni, NYC Pride, and RuPaul.
Desmond continues to invent, create, and immerse himself in several LGBTQ youth advocacy projects as detailed below.

Current Projects

THE AMAZIEST MAGAZINE
Desmond is in the process of developing a magazine targeted at LGBTQ youth called The Amaziest. All content will be created and submitted by LGBTQ youth for LGBTQ youth. He is researching various methods of producing the magazine, as well as a design and layout consistent with his message.

Future Projects

A.M.AZ.E FOR LGBTQ YOUTH
Desmond has upcoming plans to develop an anti-bullying program for LGBTQ youth that directly addresses bullying happening within the LGBTQ community. A.M.AZ.E stands for “Anti-bullying Movement trailblAZing Equality” for LGBTQ Youth.


AMAZEMENT FASHIONS
Desmond has been sketching designs in his fashion template notebooks since he was around age seven. He currently designs his own outfits which his mom then creates for him. After watching the documentary, “The True Cost” and meeting designer Michael Laed, Desmond has been interested in creating outfits using donated clothing, unconventional materials, and items purchased from a local pro-LGBTQ thrift store, called “Out of the Closet”. It is his dream to have his own fashion line in the future focused on sustainable fashion. He would call his fashion house Amazement. This is a combination of the words “amazing” and “statement”.

Even if the answer is “yes” (No True Scotsman Fallacy) – fine! There is still the first article that I linked about German Playboy.

[Sharania]

Because they're fucking kids. He's not even old enough to have started his puberty, don't bullshit me that he is to have become a """kinderdrag activist""" all on his own.

Nope:

For those questioning if his parents have pressured him into his lifestyle, think again. Napoles told Daily Beast that they have been nothing but supporters of his dream. "My parents are not forcing me at all. This is what I wanted to do, and this is what I always want to do for the rest of my life," he told the news outlet. "I just love their support, it’s fabulous."

His mother, Wendylou, also spoke with Daily Beast about the way Napoles chooses to live his life. For her, it was a natural decision to help him to chase his fashion dreams:

“I mean we accepted it because we would rather he feel comfortable with himself. If someone has such a deep interest, you’re just going to indulge them in it. Like if your kid was so crazy about football, you’d take them to the game.”

[Aellex]

Nope:

For those questioning if his parents have pressured him into his lifestyle, think again. Napoles told Daily Beast that they have been nothing but supporters of his dream. "My parents are not forcing me at all. This is what I wanted to do, and this is what I always want to do for the rest of my life," he told the news outlet. "I just love their support, it’s fabulous."

His mother, Wendylou, also spoke with Daily Beast about the way Napoles chooses to live his life. For her, it was a natural decision to help him to chase his fashion dreams:

“I mean we accepted it because we would rather he feel comfortable with himself. If someone has such a deep interest, you’re just going to indulge them in it. Like if your kid was so crazy about football, you’d take them to the game.”

Holy fuck, have you actually read the two links you posted? Because fucking yes, this kid is definitely in need of child protection service, my god!

[Neutraligon]

trannies are mentally ill, as a society we should speak out against the reality denying mental illness known as being a tranny

Oh, if you have a medical degree it would seem you need to update yourself, being trans is not a mental illness.

[Ransium]

trannies are mentally ill, as a society we should speak out against the reality denying mental illness known as being a tranny

This is trolling but I’ve already banned this user.

[Cekoviu]

Insert amusing but provocative joke here.

[Dumb Ideologies]

I'd be cautious about reposting with a couple of words changed something previously ruled as trolling.

[Dylar]

trannies are mentally ill, as a society we should speak out against the reality denying mental illness known as being a tranny

Oh, if you have a medical degree it would seem you need to update yourself, being trans is not a mental illness.

I mean, technically speaking, wouldn't it be? I always thought that a lot of people who are trans suffered from dysphoria before transitioning or sometime during or even after their transition.

[Cekoviu]

Oh, if you have a medical degree it would seem you need to update yourself, being trans is not a mental illness.

I mean, technically speaking, wouldn't it be? I always thought that a lot of people who are trans suffered from dysphoria before transitioning or sometime during or even after their transition.

Gender dysphoria isn't a mental illness, even "technically speaking", anymore. Being trans is also different from having gender dysphoria, so claiming the condition of being trans is a mental illness is inaccurate in many ways.

[Neutraligon]

I mean, technically speaking, wouldn't it be? I always thought that a lot of people who are trans suffered from dysphoria before transitioning or sometime during or even after their transition.

Gender dysphoria isn't a mental illness, even "technically speaking", anymore. Being trans is also different from having gender dysphoria, so claiming the condition of being trans is a mental illness is inaccurate in many ways.

Actually gender dysphoria is a mental illness in the same way depression is a mental illness. However as one does not need gender dysphoria to be trans being trans in and of itself is not a mental illness.

[Cekoviu]

Gender dysphoria isn't a mental illness, even "technically speaking", anymore. Being trans is also different from having gender dysphoria, so claiming the condition of being trans is a mental illness is inaccurate in many ways.

Actually gender dysphoria is a mental illness in the same way depression is a mental illness. However as one does not need gender dysphoria to be trans being trans in and of itself is not a mental illness.

It was declassified as a mental illness in the most recent DSM, IIRC. It's now a "condition" or something like that.

[Neutraligon]

Actually gender dysphoria is a mental illness in the same way depression is a mental illness. However as one does not need gender dysphoria to be trans being trans in and of itself is not a mental illness.

It was declassified as a mental illness in the most recent DSM, IIRC. It's now a "condition" or something like that.

Oh mind linking that. From what I can tell the most recent DSM, DSM5 , still links gender dysphoria as a mental illness.

[Cekoviu]

It was declassified as a mental illness in the most recent DSM, IIRC. It's now a "condition" or something like that.

Oh mind linking that. From what I can tell the most recent DSM, DSM5 , still links gender dysphoria as a mental illness.

Oops, it wasn't in the DSM, but the APA stated that gender non-conformity is not a mental disorder (somewhat different than what I said; it'd been a while since I read that): https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Libra ... phoria.pdf

[Neutraligon]

Oh mind linking that. From what I can tell the most recent DSM, DSM5 , still links gender dysphoria as a mental illness.

Oops, it wasn't in the DSM, but the APA stated that gender non-conformity is not a mental disorder (somewhat different than what I said; it'd been a while since I read that): https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Libra ... phoria.pdf

Correct, gender non-conformity is not a mental disorder, but it is also not the same thing as gender dysphoria. Anyway, glad to know I am up to date on this.