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Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What should the first subtitle of our next thread be?

Trans Men Are Not Women
23
24%
Anti-Cistamines
10
10%
Please Don't Deadnaming Eve
3
3%
Is This Destroying My Free Speech
8
8%
We Know More About This Than You
11
11%
HRT And Crumpets
26
27%
Pro-Nouns & Anti-Verbs
16
16%
 
Total votes : 97

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Gim
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Postby Gim » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:58 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Gim wrote:
I guess there's a difference in the transgender community.

I am not talking about the trans community.


However, you said you're one yourself?
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Khalisako
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Postby Khalisako » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:02 am

Gim wrote:
Inzunza wrote:I'm told that sexual organs determines an individual's sex rather than gender, my source being my significant other who is almost always on Tumblr. Thus, human behavior shouldn't really define gender.



Men like competition; women like gossip. Clear distinction in human behaviour, I think.

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Neutraligon
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Postby Neutraligon » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:11 am

Gim wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:I am not talking about the trans community.


However, you said you're one yourself?

I am one, the people I am talking about are not.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:59 am

Gim wrote:
Inzunza wrote:I'm told that sexual organs determines an individual's sex rather than gender, my source being my significant other who is almost always on Tumblr. Thus, human behavior shouldn't really define gender.



Men like competition; women like gossip. Clear distinction in human behaviour, I think.


Nah, because most people believe in this crud we just as a society create different gendered words to describe similar stuff. Doesn't actually reflect reality. When women are competing over something we call it a cat fight and when dudes gossip about each other we call it shit-talk and banter. Another obvious example is men's "gut feeling" versus "female intuition".
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Inzunza
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Postby Inzunza » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:39 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Nah, because most people believe in this crud we just as a society create different gendered words to describe similar stuff. Doesn't actually reflect reality. When women are competing over something we call it a cat fight and when dudes gossip about each other we call it shit-talk and banter. Another obvious example is men's "gut feeling" versus "female intuition".


Golly, colloquial terms sure are frustrating. x.x
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The Florence Union
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Postby The Florence Union » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:02 am

Xaseqomehia wrote:Hope I could help shed a bit of convoluted light on the subject. :)


Mucho gracious, much appreciated, my eyes have been opened.

Grenartia wrote:8. Look, I don't give a shit if you're pro or anti trans, but that word is a slur on par with the word n*gger, and I will politely ask you only once to refrain from using it in this thread again.


Serrus wrote:About 8: Reporting now.


My apologies, I was aware that there is some controversy surrounding the "T" word but I didn't think it was on par wit the n word. Seeing the unfavorable response to my using of the word I will refrain from using it on NS.

In other words, I am a godless communist so I am all for the transgender movement, I'm just uneducated.

My bad.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:33 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Considering this was discussing people who insist that trans individuals reveal they are trans on basically the first date, your point is kinda silly. Dating may be hard for cis-individuals, it can be deadly for those who are trans.


To be fair, it's a pretty important thing to know. I mean, what are you going to do, keep it secret until you're in bed? That's not going to go over well.

Would you rather find out that the person you've been dating hates trans-people months into seeing them? Is that fair to you? Is that fair to them?

Honestly, the best idea would simply to not date people you haven't gotten to know properly. Which is something I would say to anyone, sex traffickers are a thing, psychos are a thing.


It's a matter of building trust. That's the thing. For transgender people, revealing their status before some form of trust has been established can be dangerous. Comfort levels are important.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:57 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Something I saw on FB that's relevant to the discussion we had yesterday:

(Image)


1. This is kind of grave-digging but this is a rather demanding thing to ask of people. Dating isn't exactly an easy thing for cis-people either, running out a list of deal-breakers as a prelude to dating someone is a bit ridiculous.

2. Also, not a shitty dating policy if you want to have children.


1. So, its 'too demanding' for us to want cis people to announce ahead of time that they're willing to kill us for being trans, but its a totally reasonable expectation for cis people to make us come out of the closet on the first date? How is that not a blatant fucking double standard?

2. Would you expect somebody who's infertile, for whatever reason, to announce it to their partner on the first date?
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:59 am

Grenartia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
1. This is kind of grave-digging but this is a rather demanding thing to ask of people. Dating isn't exactly an easy thing for cis-people either, running out a list of deal-breakers as a prelude to dating someone is a bit ridiculous.

2. Also, not a shitty dating policy if you want to have children.


1. So, its 'too demanding' for us to want cis people to announce ahead of time that they're willing to kill us for being trans, but its a totally reasonable expectation for cis people to make us come out of the closet on the first date? How is that not a blatant fucking double standard?

2. Would you expect somebody who's infertile, for whatever reason, to announce it to their partner on the first date?

2) Yes.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:00 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
1. So, its 'too demanding' for us to want cis people to announce ahead of time that they're willing to kill us for being trans, but its a totally reasonable expectation for cis people to make us come out of the closet on the first date? How is that not a blatant fucking double standard?

2. Would you expect somebody who's infertile, for whatever reason, to announce it to their partner on the first date?

2) Yes.

Shit, you must have some intense first dates
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Inzunza
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Postby Inzunza » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:01 am

Fuck gender roles. I expect HER to pay for the first date's meal. >:C
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:03 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Neutraligon wrote:Considering this was discussing people who insist that trans individuals reveal they are trans on basically the first date, your point is kinda silly. Dating may be hard for cis-individuals, it can be deadly for those who are trans.


To be fair, it's a pretty important thing to know. 1. I mean, what are you going to do, keep it secret until you're in bed? That's not going to go over well.

2. Would you rather find out that the person you've been dating hates trans-people months into seeing them? Is that fair to you? Is that fair to them?

3. Honestly, the best idea would simply to not date people you haven't gotten to know properly. Which is something I would say to anyone, sex traffickers are a thing, psychos are a thing.


1. This was addressed earlier in the thread. You address it when the relationship starts getting serious, and well before any sex happens, and only when its safe to come out.

2. Actually, I would. As long as I'm safe and they're not trying to kill me for being trans, its all fair.

3. Some trans people are so deep stealth that they don't even come out to anyone. Up until a decade or two ago, that was the therapist-recommended route, to cut off all contact with family and friends, and start a new life somewhere else.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:05 am

Alvecia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:2) Yes.

Shit, you must have some intense first dates

It's a major dealbreaker; it's something that should come out early, before making the other person emotionally invested.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:06 am

Neutraligon wrote:
Gim wrote:
However, you said you're one yourself?

I am one, the people I am talking about are not.


Trans people being friends with cis people? Absolutely shocking!
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:08 am

The Florence Union wrote:
Xaseqomehia wrote:Hope I could help shed a bit of convoluted light on the subject. :)


Mucho gracious, much appreciated, my eyes have been opened.

Grenartia wrote:8. Look, I don't give a shit if you're pro or anti trans, but that word is a slur on par with the word n*gger, and I will politely ask you only once to refrain from using it in this thread again.


Serrus wrote:About 8: Reporting now.


My apologies, I was aware that there is some controversy surrounding the "T" word but I didn't think it was on par wit the n word. Seeing the unfavorable response to my using of the word I will refrain from using it on NS.

In other words, I am a godless communist so I am all for the transgender movement, I'm just uneducated.

My bad.


No hard feelings. I generally assume most people who say it aren't malicious (unless there's other factors present), so I tend to err on the side of giving a stern warning than reporting to moderation or assuming hatred where none was meant.
Impeach Humanity, Legalize Death Stars, Life is TheftWis/Gren 2016 Something all cisgender allies should start doing. I wear teal, blue & pink for Swith. ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:09 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Shit, you must have some intense first dates

It's a major dealbreaker; it's something that should come out early, before making the other person emotionally invested.

Do you ask them to bring a full medical history as well?
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:10 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
1. So, its 'too demanding' for us to want cis people to announce ahead of time that they're willing to kill us for being trans, but its a totally reasonable expectation for cis people to make us come out of the closet on the first date? How is that not a blatant fucking double standard?

2. Would you expect somebody who's infertile, for whatever reason, to announce it to their partner on the first date?

2) Yes.


You expect unreasonable things from people you just met.
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:10 am

I thought we already had this discussion, didn't we? Pretty sure it was concluded with 'a trans person has no obligation to inform their partner that they are trans, especially post-operation because at that point they are already who they are physically and mentally.'

Like, for real. If you gotta problem, how about you list off no-goes and dealbreakers rather than having the childish belief that it is the trans person's responsibility to tell you they are trans, where unless they are pre-op and are trying to talk about their life in general, that is simply not going to happen in all likelihood unless it somehow comes up in conversation.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:11 am

Alvecia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:It's a major dealbreaker; it's something that should come out early, before making the other person emotionally invested.

Do you ask them to bring a full medical history as well?

No, but I would certainly expect someone with an STD to bring it up.

Not revealing something that is an obvious dealbreaker until you've got the other person emotionally invested is manipulative.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:12 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Do you ask them to bring a full medical history as well?

No, but I would certainly expect someone with an STD to bring it up.

Not revealing something that is an obvious dealbreaker until you've got the other person emotionally invested is manipulative.

Dealbreaker is subjective. For many, being infertile wouldn't matter.
For other, their taste in film might be a dealbreaker.

It's unreasonable to expect their entire life story on the first date.
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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:13 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Do you ask them to bring a full medical history as well?

No, but I would certainly expect someone with an STD to bring it up.

Not revealing something that is an obvious dealbreaker until you've got the other person emotionally invested is manipulative.


Being trans is not an obvious dealbreaker. Not at all.

Just because it is for you doesn't mean that's the way it works for everyone.

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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:13 am

Grenartia wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:2) Yes.


You expect unreasonable things from people you just met.

There are things that a person has the right to know when they're entering into a relationship; whether the other person has been married before, whether they have kids, an STD, and other things that are major dealbreakers.
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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:14 am

The V O I D wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:No, but I would certainly expect someone with an STD to bring it up.

Not revealing something that is an obvious dealbreaker until you've got the other person emotionally invested is manipulative.


Being trans is not an obvious dealbreaker. Not at all.

Just because it is for you doesn't mean that's the way it works for everyone.

It would be a potential dealbreaker for anyone who wants kids, or for the portion of the population that still disapproves of transsexuality religiously.
Christian Anarcho-Monarchist. If you're confused about how that works, send me a TG and I'll explain it. Just completed studies in History and International Relations. Asexual with sex-revulsion.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:14 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
The V O I D wrote:
Being trans is not an obvious dealbreaker. Not at all.

Just because it is for you doesn't mean that's the way it works for everyone.

It would be a potential dealbreaker for anyone who wants kids, or for the portion of the population that still disapproves of transsexuality religiously.

The impetus then is on you to ask, not on them to offer up
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:15 am

Inzunza wrote:Fuck gender roles. I expect HER to pay for the first date's meal. >:C


Not really the topic.

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
1. So, its 'too demanding' for us to want cis people to announce ahead of time that they're willing to kill us for being trans, but its a totally reasonable expectation for cis people to make us come out of the closet on the first date? How is that not a blatant fucking double standard?

2. Would you expect somebody who's infertile, for whatever reason, to announce it to their partner on the first date?

2) Yes.


I applaud your consistency here.

Though how many people know beforehand if they're infertile (before they're trying)
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