Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

[Dylar]

My apologies. *cough*Newgrounds [E-rated]Flash games!*cough*

...Looking back, it never ceases to amaze me how I ignored how awful that site was...Good gracious...Of course, I usually was able to avoid the porn, but everything was still so...ughhhh...

I mean, it's Newgrounds. The site full of socially-akward teenage kids who don't know how to deal with their...umm..."excitement"

[Philjia]

That's their problem.

Not if the duck is lying to them about being a goose.

Obviously it's polite to tell your partner if you have unexpected genitals, and nobody should be having sex with anyone not willing to discuss that.

[Grenartia]

So, you're saying nobody should date anybody.

I'm saying that, if you don't know someone wouldn't beat you up, you have no business being in a romantic relationship with that person.

Why'd you repeat yourself if you're just saying the same thing I just said?

[United Muscovite Nations]

I'm saying that, if you don't know someone wouldn't beat you up, you have no business being in a romantic relationship with that person.

Why'd you repeat yourself if you're just saying the same thing I just said?

I'm not saying you shouldn't date anyone, I'm saying you shouldn't date total strangers.

[Khalisako]

Why'd you repeat yourself if you're just saying the same thing I just said?

I'm not saying you shouldn't date anyone, I'm saying you shouldn't date total strangers.

No sex before marriage either, by the way.

[Grenartia]

Why'd you repeat yourself if you're just saying the same thing I just said?

I'm not saying you shouldn't date anyone, I'm saying you shouldn't date total strangers.

Some people don't have any other choice. Why do you think dating sites and apps are a thing?

I'm not saying you shouldn't date anyone, I'm saying you shouldn't date total strangers.

No sex before marriage either, by the way.

Obviously.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I'm not saying you shouldn't date anyone, I'm saying you shouldn't date total strangers.

Some people don't have any other choice. Why do you think dating sites and apps are a thing?

No sex before marriage either, by the way.

Obviously.

If you're dating online, simple, just include it in your profile, most dating sites have the option for it.

[Luminesa]

1. Why is it a petty existential crisis? Of course, this all might relate to how one views sex. If you view sex as, "I use you, you use me," okay, the person may not need to disclose their name to you. Might be a one-night stand. If you view sex as, "The culmination of a relationship of mutual love and trust that has built slowly, after years of getting to know one another," it might be a big deal. 2. No, it doesn't have to end in violence, if the person who discovers the truth is capable of controlling themselves and handling the matter rationally. 3. If they cannot, and you have noticed in prior interactions that they cannot control themselves on specific matters, you should not be dating them in the first place.

4. And of course, this revolves around the fact that you really cannot force a person into a relationship simply on the basis of one's gender identity. If you are cis or trans, what matters is you find someone who, if you tell them you are either, say, "Okay, sure." You know what I mean. 5. If they threaten to harm you, or if you sense an aspect to their personality that is inherently dangerous, get away from them. You do not want to lock yourself in an unhealthy relationship with someone who only wants to control you. 6. Vice-versa, you should not seek to trick someone, in any aspect of a relationship, about yourself, because a true relationship should be about giving 100% for your lover.

7. If you're hiding something that is so important and inherent to your being right at the beginning of the relationship, think about the other person. Of course, if they're chill with it, then that's not a problem. If they aren't, think about why. What if they have a lot of social anxiety? What if they're the type (possibly like myself) who might wonder, "Wait. If they hide X (any feature, not necessarily transsexuality, but something else that might be very important to know), what else are they hiding?" Or what if they've had lots of people around them hide secrets, they want a relationship that is truthful and honest, and then you hide from them that they're trans? There are little intricacies to such things you need to think about. You do need to think about the other person. It may not be simply because the person is trans that they may not want to date. 8. Maybe they just have trust issues.

And ultimately, nobody should ever sell themselves short because they are afraid of being harmed in a relationship. If you're trans, and you're hiding it so you'll find someone, 9. that might be like me hiding I'm Catholic to try and get a non-Catholic, or maybe even a non-practicing Catholic (plenty exist, after all). 10. If it hurts, and if it takes so much effort to hide, especially if it's something so important to you, why must you put yourself through that pain? That pain that will suck the life out of your relationship, and that will ultimately cause the relationship to turn in on itself? 11. The point of a relationship should be to find someone who loves you for you, not to hide parts of yourself that are inherent to who you are. Otherwise, that person is loving an idea of the person they know, not the person they actually are with. And in the meantime, both of you, in some way, are hurt. And that's not how a relationship should be.

1. Its a petty existential crisis, because any violation that happened was not the fault of the believer in question. Its equivalent to begging mercy for being a thief because somebody offered you a chip from a bag that wasn't theirs.

2. Sure. But too many people don't meet that criteria.

3. Which goes without saying, but the simple fact is, that's not always apparent. Ever been in an abusive relationship, or know somebody who has? I have. Assholes like that can be very good at camouflaging their true intentions.

4. Nobody's trying to argue otherwise.

5. Obviously.

6. None of us really want to trick people. Its simply an act of being confident they're alright to disclose to before disclosing, to maximize safety. I mean, how many girls do you know clench their keys in their fists to use as a weapon when they're walking to their car or their house at night? Its the same basic principle.

7. Well, generally, in that situation, we sincerely explain not only what we've been hiding, but why, and express our desire that we didn't have to hide it. There's also an implicit need to thank them for proving themselves trustworthy, as well as a commitment to always be open and honest in the future. Disclosure is way more than "Yo, for the last month or so, I've been hiding that I'm transgender, now lets fuck."

8. Kind of hard to be trans and have an active sex/romance life and not also have issues with trusting people. Disclosure isn't something you do right before sex (though it should happen before sex). Its something that happens when the relationship starts getting serious, and when you've judged that the person won't freak the fuck out over it. Yes, that implies holding off on sex until the time is right. Surely, the religiously devout in this thread can appreciate that.

9. I mean, its pretty hard to imagine somebody freaking out over somebody being Catholic or not.

10. Because its more painful to pretend to be somebody you're not, even if it would appear to be easier from the outside looking in.

11. I mean, sure. But, again, there's the safety issue to worry about first and foremost. Unlike praying mantises, humans generally don't tend to be willing to put our love lives before our personal safety.

1.) I ahhhh...admittedly don't understand this comparison.

2.) I mean...unless you have specific stats about the people trans people date?...I should say that because I have never been in this position, and am not well-informed on it, but I do have to ask, is everyone that trans people are seeking to date abusive? I dunno, it comes across to me as a rather overwhelming amount of fear. Sure there are violent people out there, but I mean...that certainly can't mean everyone.

3.) True. I've never been in an abusive romantic relationship, but in abusive friendships. There are always signs one can look for, I admittedly was simply naive.

4.) Okay.

6.) Apologies. I understand it's mostly a defensive thing. "Trick" might not have been the right word.

7.) Right. And disclosing secrets can be hard. It's just I wouldn't wish for anyone to be in a relationship where they fear they have to hide from their lover.

8.) Sure, as a rule I think everyone should hold-off sex until a.) marriage and b.) as a sort of tip to the Macchu Picchu of the relationship.

9.) Situations probably do exist, but I mean it in the sense that for many, being a Catholic isn't just a charm on a chain of personal characteristics. It's who they are, or who they want to be.

10.) What do you mean?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Indeed. Demanding that trans people always disclose that they are trans to every potential partner, even casual ones, is not reasonable given how openly trans people face a lot of danger.

I mean...my understanding would be that I would want to know who I am having sex with...It doesn't have to lead to someone getting hurt and dying. A.) The people who beat and kill trans people for being trans, after having sex with them, are crazy, and B). openness, communication, and mutual respect should be part of any relationship, otherwise it's not a good relationship.

You're seeing the world in a very black and white way. For transgender people, revealing they're transgender could mean they get hurt or even murdered. Besides, by the time a transgender man or woman is ready to have sex in a relationship, they trust the person enough to reveal their status.

Please please please, do not perpetuate the "transgender people trap" bullshit. Because that's what it is. Bullshit.

[Grenartia]

Some people don't have any other choice. Why do you think dating sites and apps are a thing?



Obviously.

If you're dating online, simple, just include it in your profile, most dating sites have the option for it.

Which basically amounts to self-doxxing.

1. Its a petty existential crisis, because any violation that happened was not the fault of the believer in question. Its equivalent to begging mercy for being a thief because somebody offered you a chip from a bag that wasn't theirs.

2. Sure. But too many people don't meet that criteria.

3. Which goes without saying, but the simple fact is, that's not always apparent. Ever been in an abusive relationship, or know somebody who has? I have. Assholes like that can be very good at camouflaging their true intentions.

4. Nobody's trying to argue otherwise.

5. Obviously.

6. None of us really want to trick people. Its simply an act of being confident they're alright to disclose to before disclosing, to maximize safety. I mean, how many girls do you know clench their keys in their fists to use as a weapon when they're walking to their car or their house at night? Its the same basic principle.

7. Well, generally, in that situation, we sincerely explain not only what we've been hiding, but why, and express our desire that we didn't have to hide it. There's also an implicit need to thank them for proving themselves trustworthy, as well as a commitment to always be open and honest in the future. Disclosure is way more than "Yo, for the last month or so, I've been hiding that I'm transgender, now lets fuck."

8. Kind of hard to be trans and have an active sex/romance life and not also have issues with trusting people. Disclosure isn't something you do right before sex (though it should happen before sex). Its something that happens when the relationship starts getting serious, and when you've judged that the person won't freak the fuck out over it. Yes, that implies holding off on sex until the time is right. Surely, the religiously devout in this thread can appreciate that.

9. I mean, its pretty hard to imagine somebody freaking out over somebody being Catholic or not.

10. Because its more painful to pretend to be somebody you're not, even if it would appear to be easier from the outside looking in.

11. I mean, sure. But, again, there's the safety issue to worry about first and foremost. Unlike praying mantises, humans generally don't tend to be willing to put our love lives before our personal safety.

1.) I ahhhh...admittedly don't understand this comparison.

2.) I mean...unless you have specific stats about the people trans people date?...I should say that because I have never been in this position, and am not well-informed on it, but I do have to ask, is everyone that trans people are seeking to date abusive? I dunno, it comes across to me as a rather overwhelming amount of fear. Sure there are violent people out there, but I mean...that certainly can't mean everyone.

3.) True. I've never been in an abusive romantic relationship, but in abusive friendships. There are always signs one can look for, I admittedly was simply naive.

4.) Okay.

6.) Apologies. I understand it's mostly a defensive thing. "Trick" might not have been the right word.

7.) Right. And disclosing secrets can be hard. It's just I wouldn't wish for anyone to be in a relationship where they fear they have to hide from their lover.

8.) Sure, as a rule I think everyone should hold-off sex until a.) marriage and b.) as a sort of tip to the Macchu Picchu of the relationship.

9.) Situations probably do exist, but I mean it in the sense that for many, being a Catholic isn't just a charm on a chain of personal characteristics. It's who they are, or who they want to be.

10.) What do you mean?

1. Ok. Think of it like this. If you were a priest, and Person A came into your confessional booth to confess that they're a thief, because Person B gave them some chips from a bag that Person B took from Person C, and Person A only found out that last detail after the fact, what would you say?

2. Well, its still legal in most states to kill a trans person if you say you thought they were coming onto you. And for the last few years, each year surpassed the last in terms of the number of trans people who were killed, and this year seems to be on track for following that pattern as well. We don't generally seek out any specifics in potential partners, as a group, so it seems to be a problem ingrained in society, rather than with our taste in partners.

3. Hindsight is 20/20.

6. Fair enough.

7. From your mouth to God's ears.

8. I mean, I disagree with A. on general principle, but B. just sounds like the relationship is all downhill afterwards. Personally, I feel it should be no different from, say, going out away from the city lights and stargazing all night long, or watching crappy movies and doing your own personal MST3K with your partner. A fun tradition to be engaged in regularly, instead of a once-in-a-lifetime experience, even if its a mindblowing one.

9. Fair enough.

10. "If it hurts, and if it takes so much effort to hide, especially if it's something so important to you, why must you put yourself through that pain? " The thing is, despite what some people would like to believe, the world is still unaccepting of trans people. It hurts to be trans, because society makes it hurt. But it still hurts even more to fulfill society's expectations for who we should be. You don't feel that pain (or at least I hope you don't), but the things we have to do to be happy, that might appear to you to add unnecessary pain, are simply acts of pain reduction for us.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If you're dating online, simple, just include it in your profile, most dating sites have the option for it.

Which basically amounts to self-doxxing.

Not anymore than revealing your sex, race, height, or even name does, which people have no problem doing. Hell, lots of people on NSG know my name, I've said it before, and at least one knows the exact city I live in.

[Vassenor]

Which basically amounts to self-doxxing.

Not anymore than revealing your sex, race, height, or even name does, which people have no problem doing. Hell, lots of people on NSG know my name, I've said it before, and at least one knows the exact city I live in.

And guess what: Some people might not want to give out that kind of information.

Also when was the last time someone was murdered for their height? Or how does knowing that I'm 5'6" help identify me?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Which basically amounts to self-doxxing.

Not anymore than revealing your sex, race, height, or even name does, which people have no problem doing. Hell, lots of people on NSG know my name, I've said it before, and at least one knows the exact city I live in.

Not the same, really. Your name will more than likely cause no harm to come to you. Transgender hate crimes are a thing. Revealing their status the same way you reveal your height can mean the difference between life and death to them.

[Grenartia]

Not anymore than revealing your sex, race, height, or even name does, which people have no problem doing. Hell, lots of people on NSG know my name, I've said it before, and at least one knows the exact city I live in.

And guess what: Some people might not want to give out that kind of information.

Also when was the last time someone was murdered for their height? Or how does knowing that I'm 5'6" help identify me?

Indeed. Its like painting a target on your back.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Not anymore than revealing your sex, race, height, or even name does, which people have no problem doing. Hell, lots of people on NSG know my name, I've said it before, and at least one knows the exact city I live in.

And guess what: Some people might not want to give out that kind of information.

Also when was the last time someone was murdered for their height? Or how does knowing that I'm 5'6" help identify me?

How does knowing that you're trans help identify you?

Also, you would have a tough time on a dating site without revealing your sex.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

And guess what: Some people might not want to give out that kind of information.

Also when was the last time someone was murdered for their height? Or how does knowing that I'm 5'6" help identify me?

How does knowing that you're trans help identify you?

UMN, I'm sure you're aware of transgender hate crimes. Come on. This is not too hard to grasp.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

And guess what: Some people might not want to give out that kind of information.

Also when was the last time someone was murdered for their height? Or how does knowing that I'm 5'6" help identify me?

People are killed for their race all the time (admittedly, race is more noticeable), yet it's commonly mentioned. Whatever the case, don't you think that a potential suitor might wish to know that you're trans (although, this problem may be remedied through the use of private message before you start a relationship).

[United Muscovite Nations]

How does knowing that you're trans help identify you?

UMN, I'm sure you're aware of transgender hate crimes. Come on. This is not too hard to grasp.

I am, but there's not the danger in internet dating that there is IRL. There's very little identifying information there, so there's very little risk of it being traced back to you IRL unless you freely give out stuff like your phone number and address.

[Grenartia]

And guess what: Some people might not want to give out that kind of information.

Also when was the last time someone was murdered for their height? Or how does knowing that I'm 5'6" help identify me?

People are killed for their race all the time (admittedly, race is more noticeable), yet it's commonly mentioned. Whatever the case, don't you think that a potential suitor might wish to know that you're trans (although, this problem may be remedied through the use of private message before you start a relationship).

The simple fact is, trans people are disproportionately murdered for being trans. Even more than people of [race] being murdered for being part of that race.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

UMN, I'm sure you're aware of transgender hate crimes. Come on. This is not too hard to grasp.

I am, but there's not the danger in internet dating that there is IRL. There's very little identifying information there, so there's very little risk of it being traced back to you IRL unless you freely give out stuff like your phone number and address.

The risk in real life is very high. And very often, is not at the hands of partners. It's at the hands of others. If you're interested in understanding why a transgender person is hesitant to reveal their status, read about the dangers they often face. Talk to them. Read about the victims who have been murdered just because they're transgender.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I am, but there's not the danger in internet dating that there is IRL. There's very little identifying information there, so there's very little risk of it being traced back to you IRL unless you freely give out stuff like your phone number and address.

The risk in real life is very high. And very often, is not at the hands of partners. It's at the hands of others. If you're interested in understanding why a transgender person is hesitant to reveal their status, read about the dangers they often face. Talk to them. Read about the victims who have been murdered just because they're transgender.

The risk in real life is high. There's hardly any risk online.

[Khalisako]

UMN, I'm sure you're aware of transgender hate crimes. Come on. This is not too hard to grasp.

I am, but there's not the danger in internet dating that there is IRL. There's very little identifying information there, so there's very little risk of it being traced back to you IRL unless you freely give out stuff like your phone number and address.

I imagine there is still a risk if one're looking locally.

Such as on fetLife, wherein listing one's sex, location, and age. However, it is not smart idea to reveal face or definite location before talking to whoever might want to know.

They know there a trans in their area, but not who that trans is. Because if it a passing trans, that trans could be anybody they see.

If it long distance than the dnager is negligable, barring some special circumstances.

[Grenartia]

I am, but there's not the danger in internet dating that there is IRL. There's very little identifying information there, so there's very little risk of it being traced back to you IRL unless you freely give out stuff like your phone number and address.

The risk in real life is very high. And very often, is not at the hands of partners. It's at the hands of others. If you're interested in understanding why a transgender person is hesitant to reveal their status, read about the dangers they often face. Talk to them. Read about the victims who have been murdered just because they're transgender.

Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... der_people

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The risk in real life is very high. And very often, is not at the hands of partners. It's at the hands of others. If you're interested in understanding why a transgender person is hesitant to reveal their status, read about the dangers they often face. Talk to them. Read about the victims who have been murdered just because they're transgender.

The risk in real life is high. There's hardly any risk online.

There is. Tracking IP addresses and other info isn't as hard as you might think. Digging social media and forum posts isn't hard. If someone is bent on harming you for being transgender, they'll find a way.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

The simple fact is, trans people are disproportionately murdered for being trans. Even more than people of [race] being murdered for being part of that race.

Fair enough.

Out of curiosity, might I ask at which point in a relationship would you reveal the fact that you're trans?