NATION

PASSWORD

Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

What should the first subtitle of our next thread be?

Trans Men Are Not Women
23
24%
Anti-Cistamines
10
10%
Please Don't Deadnaming Eve
3
3%
Is This Destroying My Free Speech
8
8%
We Know More About This Than You
11
11%
HRT And Crumpets
26
27%
Pro-Nouns & Anti-Verbs
16
16%
 
Total votes : 97

User avatar
Khasinkonia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6265
Founded: Feb 02, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Khasinkonia » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:03 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Is it just me who hears career-narcissist binary-presenting celebrities declaring themselves to be genderqueer or non-binary and then goes "sure you are" while giving a long sarcastic "get a load of this" look to the sides?

I don’t like to question other people’s identities, but I do agree. It seems to me like “nonbinary” is becoming a little “I’m different look at me!” tag instead of something legitimate. Like, for Miley Cyrus, I feel like “woman” would suffice to describe her, quite frankly.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27327
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:33 am

Khasinkonia wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Is it just me who hears career-narcissist binary-presenting celebrities declaring themselves to be genderqueer or non-binary and then goes "sure you are" while giving a long sarcastic "get a load of this" look to the sides?

I don’t like to question other people’s identities, but I do agree. It seems to me like “nonbinary” is becoming a little “I’m different look at me!” tag instead of something legitimate. Like, for Miley Cyrus, I feel like “woman” would suffice to describe her, quite frankly.



Transtrenders are a thing, and I think more common than the group would like to believe.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:37 am

Tarsonis wrote:Transtrenders are a thing, and I think more common than the group would like to believe.

No, but gatekeeping is a thing, various cultures have/had NB cultures all on their own.
Last edited by Soviet Technocracy4 on Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Khasinkonia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6265
Founded: Feb 02, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Khasinkonia » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:45 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Khasinkonia wrote:I don’t like to question other people’s identities, but I do agree. It seems to me like “nonbinary” is becoming a little “I’m different look at me!” tag instead of something legitimate. Like, for Miley Cyrus, I feel like “woman” would suffice to describe her, quite frankly.



Transtrenders are a thing, and I think more common than the group would like to believe.

As much as I hate to say it, I think there may well be transtrenders out there, particularly in the public eye. I reckon there’s disproportionate celebrity representation of an otherwise negligible demographic because publicity and what have you.

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:57 am

Classical Judaism has six genders and you think celebrities can’t be NB. Rather it is binarism that is trending.
Last edited by Soviet Technocracy4 on Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27327
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:58 am

Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:Transtrenders are a thing, and I think more common than the group would like to believe.

No, but gatekeeping is a thing, various cultures have/had NB cultures all on their own.


It’s not gatekeeping. There are people out there who only identify as Trans because they think it’s trendy or because it endears them to people or they get attention they want. I’m not making this up wholesale, I personally know people like this. I’m not saying it’s all, or most or even a sizable portion of the community, but they do exist.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45251
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:02 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Khasinkonia wrote:I don’t like to question other people’s identities, but I do agree. It seems to me like “nonbinary” is becoming a little “I’m different look at me!” tag instead of something legitimate. Like, for Miley Cyrus, I feel like “woman” would suffice to describe her, quite frankly.



Transtrenders are a thing, and I think more common than the group would like to believe.


Rings true to my experience - my uni had five or six "out" trans people when I was there (50/50 on binary/non-binary), then within the next year several entirely heteronormatively presenting "non-binary" people appeared, made lots of noise, then immediately removed any reference to it from their profiles once they left uni and never mentioned it again.

It was quite obviously a form of "play" for them to associate themselves with an edgy and visible minority - they weren't bad people per se but vaguely patronising and insulting like naive self-centred tourists demanding to take part in local ceremonies of which they know nothing.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:03 am

Tarsonis wrote:It’s not gatekeeping. There are people out there who only identify as Trans because they think it’s trendy or because it endears them to people or they get attention they want. I’m not making this up wholesale, I personally know people like this. I’m not saying it’s all, or most or even a sizable portion of the community, but they do exist.

Then they’re gender non conforming, which is also a thing.

User avatar
Wahabi Hejaz
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 25
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Wahabi Hejaz » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:06 am

In our nation there are no rights given to LGBT people. They are treated as criminals.
Last edited by Wahabi Hejaz on Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
We are a real paradise.
While the name says Hejaz, we also own the Sudan as a colony.
Please plesse please read my rules Factbook.
Rule of the day:
13)Being well versed in the Quran is compulsory. Random Quranic tests are conducted and if you fail, then you may be sent to a level B prison until you learn it thoroughly.

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:06 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:[quote=

Rings true to my experience - my uni had five or six "out" trans people when I was there (50/50 on binary/non-binary), then within the next year several entirely heteronormatively presenting "non-binary" people appeared, made lots of noise, then immediately removed any reference to it from their profiles once they left uni and never mentioned it again.

There’s also plenty of gay/bisexual people in the closet, university is a more open environment.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27327
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:06 am

Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:It’s not gatekeeping. There are people out there who only identify as Trans because they think it’s trendy or because it endears them to people or they get attention they want. I’m not making this up wholesale, I personally know people like this. I’m not saying it’s all, or most or even a sizable portion of the community, but they do exist.

Then they’re gender non conforming, which is also a thing.


No, they're cisgender, but they act trans for attention.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:07 am

Wahabi Hejaz wrote:In our nation. There are no rights for LGBT people.

Id tell him to go to the RP section but may be true IRL.

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35483
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:08 am

Wahabi Hejaz wrote:In our nation. There are no rights for LGBT people.

NSGeneral is all OOC, we don't pretend to be our nations here.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:08 am

Tarsonis wrote:No, they're cisgender, but they act trans for attention.

If you’re gender nonconforming for attention you’re still gender nonconforming.

User avatar
Vassenor
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 66787
Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:09 am

Wahabi Hejaz wrote:In our nation there are no rights given to LGBT people. They are treated as criminals.


#owtheedge
Jenny / Sailor Astraea
WOMAN

MtF trans and proud - She / Her / etc.
100% Asbestos Free

Team Mystic
#iamEUropean

"Have you ever had a moment online, when the need to prove someone wrong has outweighed your own self-preservation instincts?"

User avatar
Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45251
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:11 am

The term transtrender is devalued, time to move to tryonsgender
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Are these "human rights" in the room with us right now?
★彡 Professional pessimist. Reactionary socialist and gamer liberationist. Coffee addict. Fun at parties 彡★
Freedom is when people agree with you, and the more people you can force to act like they agree the freer society is
You are the trolley problem's conductor. You could stop the train in time but you do not. Nobody knows you're part of the equation. You satisfy your bloodlust and get away with it every time

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27327
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:11 am

Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:No, they're cisgender, but they act trans for attention.

If you’re gender nonconforming for attention you’re still gender nonconforming.

:roll: Obstinance for obstinance sake is unconvincing. They're not gender non-conforming, they don't even have gender-dysphoria. They adopt the trans-persona, for social gain. Refusing to acknowledge their existence just because you see it as a threat to your ideological agenda, does not negate their existence.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Twilight Imperium
Minister
 
Posts: 2748
Founded: May 19, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Twilight Imperium » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:12 am

Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:No, they're cisgender, but they act trans for attention.

If you’re gender nonconforming for attention you’re still gender nonconforming.


A difference that makes no difference is no difference.

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:15 am

Tarsonis wrote:
Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:If you’re gender nonconforming for attention you’re still gender nonconforming.

:roll: Obstinance for obstinance sake is unconvincing. They're not gender non-conforming, they don't even have gender-dysphoria. They adopt the trans-persona, for social gain. Refusing to acknowledge their existence just because you see it as a threat to your ideological agenda, does not negate their existence.

Or gender nonconforming is the historical norm.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27327
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:17 am

Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:
Tarsonis wrote: :roll: Obstinance for obstinance sake is unconvincing. They're not gender non-conforming, they don't even have gender-dysphoria. They adopt the trans-persona, for social gain. Refusing to acknowledge their existence just because you see it as a threat to your ideological agenda, does not negate their existence.

Or gender nonconforming is the historical norm.


It's not.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Twilight Imperium
Minister
 
Posts: 2748
Founded: May 19, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Twilight Imperium » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:18 am

Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:Or gender nonconforming is the historical norm.


Look, I get you, I do - gatekeeping is bad and people who want to earnestly participate should be welcomed. But is this reeeeaaaallly the tack you want to take here?

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:21 am

Tarsonis wrote:It's not.

Your partriacrhal societies didn’t have it as much, but a number of Native American cultutes did.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27327
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:22 am

Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:
Tarsonis wrote:It's not.

Your partriacrhal societies didn’t have it as much, but a number of Native American cultutes did.



I'm not saying that gender non-coforming people don't exist. They do, I'm saying transtrenders are not gender non-conforming, they're transtrenders.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
Soviet Technocracy4
Secretary
 
Posts: 32
Founded: Mar 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy4 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:23 am

Twilight Imperium wrote:Look, I get you, I do - gatekeeping is bad and people who want to earnestly participate should be welcomed. But is this reeeeaaaallly the tack you want to take here?

People are welcome to not conform for attention. If gender is no longer a big deal it won’t be a thing. Let them mess with the culture.
Last edited by Soviet Technocracy4 on Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Twilight Imperium
Minister
 
Posts: 2748
Founded: May 19, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Twilight Imperium » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:25 am

Soviet Technocracy4 wrote:
Twilight Imperium wrote:Look, I get you, I do - gatekeeping is bad and people who want to earnestly participate should be welcomed. But is this reeeeaaaallly the tack you want to take here?

People are welcome to not conform for attention. If gender is no longer a big deal it won’t be a thing. Let them mess with the culture.


There are those who would say that treating it like a toy undermines the efforts of people who are trying to gain serious acceptance for such things. :eyebrow:

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Based Illinois, Cachard Calia, El Lazaro, Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum, Hidrandia, James_xenoland, La Xinga, Rary, Shdeniya, Stellar Colonies, Tarsonis, Thermodolia, Tinhampton

Advertisement

Remove ads