Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

[Thuzbekistan]

Radical feminism is and extremist ideology

No shit. Radical is extreme. Radical feminism is "extreme" as it wants more than just legal and equal integration into society, like liberal feminism. It wants to change the culture.

So called radical ideologies and movements seek to transform and replace, rather than gradual change and reform, if you want to uphold the system, you will see any extreme or radical movement as a threat, and thus say it like it's a bad thing to be a radical.

Even though, I don't think something like trans rights are a radical idea, but in the society I live in, it is.

Well your “gender” is small potatoes to me.

Yet here you are, a rando who somehow came to this thread and to put a dismissive comment. If I'm so insignificant, what brought you are here? Maybe there's something bigger that I am not seeing.

Radical feminism demands too much, but in general radicals get what the moderates want much faster before society says "enough is enough". Wait 20 years after that and you get what you wanted all along.

[Auzkhia]

No shit. Radical is extreme. Radical feminism is "extreme" as it wants more than just legal and equal integration into society, like liberal feminism. It wants to change the culture.

So called radical ideologies and movements seek to transform and replace, rather than gradual change and reform, if you want to uphold the system, you will see any extreme or radical movement as a threat, and thus say it like it's a bad thing to be a radical.

Even though, I don't think something like trans rights are a radical idea, but in the society I live in, it is.

Yet here you are, a rando who somehow came to this thread and to put a dismissive comment. If I'm so insignificant, what brought you are here? Maybe there's something bigger that I am not seeing.

Radical feminism demands too much, but in general radicals get what the moderates want much faster before society says "enough is enough". Wait 20 years after that and you get what you wanted all along.

In the Letter from Birmingham Jail, Dr Martin Luther King Jr said that the white moderate was the biggest threat to his movement. Wait your turn, but when is a marginalized group's turn to get their equal rights and dignity? Why wait 20 years, why not 15, or 10? Or 25? When's the "right time". King believed that moderates telling people to wait is like kicking the can down the street.

Trans people have been around forever, even before the label was coined. In 1969, the start of Pride began with a police riot since their existence was criminalized, and trans women of color were at the front of the battle. Even before that, in the 1920s and 1930s, there was much research on the LGBTQ community in Germany, it got worse after 1933, since the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft was one of the first targets of the Nazi regime. It was a dire existence, and quite often, these people cannot afford to wait for a more tolerant future, it's fight or perish, one cannot sit out in the underground and hope that they can be themselves, liberation begins with standing up for yourself immediately.

[Andsed]

If referring to somebody as their preferred gender makes them happier and friendlier, why should I be an asshole and deny them their request?

I might not 100% agree with the trans community, but being an abrasive douche for the sake of being one is just in poor taste.

Amen brother.

[Valrifell]

If referring to somebody as their preferred gender makes them happier and friendlier, why should I be an asshole and deny them their request?

I might not 100% agree with the trans community, but being an abrasive douche for the sake of being one is just in poor taste.

Yeah, if you at least make a good effort and screw up once or twice I'm sure it'll be fine for 99.9% of people. Not making any kind of effort or being openly antagonistic to those people though? Not how you win friends.

Just be a decent person, it's easier than you think.

[Khasinkonia]

I think one of the weirdest things for me is how I’m always ready to stop being openly trans in the face of problems
Like I wonder if this means I’m not really trans or if the deep depression I feel for not being accepted and thinking about going back in the closet is more proof than anything

I can understand the sentiment. It may not be the 1950’s anymore, and we’ve made a lot of progress, but the world at large is still a very tough place for us. We have a lot of pressure put on us to stop being who we are because the current state of affairs doesn’t lend itself to easy trans integration, which isolates us. Isolation is rough, and it’s a shame some folks nitpick and worry enough that it interferes with us living our lives.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

If referring to somebody as their preferred gender makes them happier and friendlier, why should I be an asshole and deny them their request?

I might not 100% agree with the trans community, but being an abrasive douche for the sake of being one is just in poor taste.

Yeah, if you at least make a good effort and screw up once or twice I'm sure it'll be fine for 99.9% of people. Not making any kind of effort or being openly antagonistic to those people though? Not how you win friends.

Just be a decent person, it's easier than you think.

"Just be a decent person", words I live and die by.

Again, you can have disagreements without attacking them personally.

[Khasinkonia]

Yeah, if you at least make a good effort and screw up once or twice I'm sure it'll be fine for 99.9% of people. Not making any kind of effort or being openly antagonistic to those people though? Not how you win friends.

Just be a decent person, it's easier than you think.

"Just be a decent person", words I live and die by.

Again, you can have disagreements without attacking them personally.

Preach brother!

[Auzkhia]

A lot of transphobic people, such as Ben Shapiro, have gone out of their way to be transphobic and deliberately misgender someone, in that case, Ben Shapiro naturally said she in reference to Laverne Cox, before incorrectly saying he, on a Joe Rogan podcast. Shapiro says that chromosomes determine your pronouns, yet he probably doesn't know what they even look like, how does he know?

It's actually quite easy to be a decent person. In many cases, people will deliberately excluded or harm people in order to be consistent with their bad ideas.

[Farburg]

A lot of transphobic people, such as Ben Shapiro, have gone out of their way to be transphobic and deliberately misgender someone, in that case, Ben Shapiro naturally said she in reference to Laverne Cox, before incorrectly saying he, on a Joe Rogan podcast. Shapiro says that chromosomes determine your pronouns, yet he probably doesn't know what they even look like, how does he know?

It's actually quite easy to be a decent person. In many cases, people will deliberately excluded or harm people in order to be consistent with their bad ideas.

He still has the right to say that.

[Andsed]

A lot of transphobic people, such as Ben Shapiro, have gone out of their way to be transphobic and deliberately misgender someone, in that case, Ben Shapiro naturally said she in reference to Laverne Cox, before incorrectly saying he, on a Joe Rogan podcast. Shapiro says that chromosomes determine your pronouns, yet he probably doesn't know what they even look like, how does he know?

It's actually quite easy to be a decent person. In many cases, people will deliberately excluded or harm people in order to be consistent with their bad ideas.

He still has the right to say that.

Sure but we have the right to call him out so I really don't see your point here.

[Farburg]

He still has the right to say that.

Sure but we have the right to call him out so I really don't see your point here.

I’m saying you can’t force everyone to play along, nor should you.

[Andsed]

Sure but we have the right to call him out so I really don't see your point here.

I’m saying you can’t force everyone to play along, nor should you.

Well were not trying to were just calling people out for saying something they know is offensive to the person they are talking to. And why should we not call people by whatever pronoun they wish to be called?

[Soviet Technocracy2]

I’m saying you can’t force everyone to play along, nor should you.

They shouldn't be given airtime, anymore than racists are.

[Ifreann]

A lot of transphobic people, such as Ben Shapiro, have gone out of their way to be transphobic and deliberately misgender someone, in that case, Ben Shapiro naturally said she in reference to Laverne Cox, before incorrectly saying he, on a Joe Rogan podcast. Shapiro says that chromosomes determine your pronouns, yet he probably doesn't know what they even look like, how does he know?

It's actually quite easy to be a decent person. In many cases, people will deliberately excluded or harm people in order to be consistent with their bad ideas.

He still has the right to say that.

When you can't defend what someone is saying, only appeal to their right to say it, you've lost the argument.

[Auzkhia]

A lot of transphobic people, such as Ben Shapiro, have gone out of their way to be transphobic and deliberately misgender someone, in that case, Ben Shapiro naturally said she in reference to Laverne Cox, before incorrectly saying he, on a Joe Rogan podcast. Shapiro says that chromosomes determine your pronouns, yet he probably doesn't know what they even look like, how does he know?

It's actually quite easy to be a decent person. In many cases, people will deliberately excluded or harm people in order to be consistent with their bad ideas.

He still has the right to say that.

I suppose you might have the right to say wrong things; I have the right to say that the ground is made of entirely of macaroni and cheese and that breakfast cereal is made from toenails.

You also have the right to correct me and tell me how wrong I am, and that the facts don't care about my feelings, such as that misgendering people is factually wrong.

However, just because you can doesn't mean you should, does free speech protect me from saying something intentionally harmful? In some cases, it does not.

[Farburg]

I’m saying you can’t force everyone to play along, nor should you.

They shouldn't be given airtime, anymore than racists are.

You know what, no,
Transphobia is not comparable to racism.
We need more rhetoric criticizing all this snowflakery.

[Auzkhia]

They shouldn't be given airtime, anymore than racists are.

You know what, no,
Transphobia is not comparable to racism.
We need more rhetoric criticizing all this snowflakery.

Why should I, as a trans person, hear more transphobia? Stuff that has proved harmful to developing minds of trans youth?

[Ifreann]

They shouldn't be given airtime, anymore than racists are.

You know what, no,
Transphobia is not comparable to racism.
We need more rhetoric criticizing all this snowflakery.

Not only is transphobia as bad as racism, there's a lot of overlap between racists and transphobes, and every other kind of bigot.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I’m saying you can’t force everyone to play along, nor should you.

They shouldn't be given airtime, anymore than racists are.

You’d only be strengthening their often recurring points about how they are being silenced, then.

[Andsed]

They shouldn't be given airtime, anymore than racists are.

You know what, no,
Transphobia is not comparable to racism.
We need more rhetoric criticizing all this snowflakery.

I mean I consider being an asshole to someone because they identity as a different gender is pretty fucked up and not just us being snowflakes.

[Hanafuridake]

I think one of the weirdest things for me is how I’m always ready to stop being openly trans in the face of problems
Like I wonder if this means I’m not really trans or if the deep depression I feel for not being accepted and thinking about going back in the closet is more proof than anything

Why should you feel obliged to put yourself in precarious situations out of some misguided sense of the Cause™?

[Farburg]

You know what, no,
Transphobia is not comparable to racism.
We need more rhetoric criticizing all this snowflakery.

Why should I, as a trans person, hear more transphobia? Stuff that has proved harmful to developing minds of trans youth?

Because we don’t pretend to believe the delusions of schizophrenic people,
So why should we entertain your delusions.

[Auzkhia]

They shouldn't be given airtime, anymore than racists are.

You’d only be strengthening their often recurring points about how they are being silenced, then.

That argument is bunk.

Reactionaries are not pro-free speech, they are pro-forced listening. There is a difference and a lot of centrists fall for their tricks and don't realize it.

[Andsed]

They shouldn't be given airtime, anymore than racists are.

You’d only be strengthening their often recurring points about how they are being silenced, then.

Yeah it is a bit of a tight walk. I mean you don't want them to spread hateful messages but you also don't want to give them ammunition about how they are being silenced.

[Ifreann]

Why should I, as a trans person, hear more transphobia? Stuff that has proved harmful to developing minds of trans youth?

Because we don’t pretend to believe the delusions of schizophrenic people,
So why should we entertain your delusions.

Why should we entertain your poorly delivered shit-tier arguments?