Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

[Khasinkonia]

Have any of y’all ever wished y’all knew y’all were trans as young children, if y’all didn’t, and like were able to raise a fuss and change something? I kinda wish I actually knew about trans people as a kid, so I could’ve known more about myself and implored my parents as a young child more.

[Vassenor]

Have any of y’all ever wished y’all knew y’all were trans as young children, if y’all didn’t, and like were able to raise a fuss and change something? I kinda wish I actually knew about trans people as a kid, so I could’ve known more about myself and implored my parents as a young child more.

I wish I hadn't been socialised to treat us as a punchline.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Have any of y’all ever wished y’all knew y’all were trans as young children, if y’all didn’t, and like were able to raise a fuss and change something? I kinda wish I actually knew about trans people as a kid, so I could’ve known more about myself and implored my parents as a young child more.

Egads no. Those dozen unawkward years before things turned to shit for about a decade are probably the only reason that I'm occasionally passably sane.

[Tarsonis]

Have any of y’all ever wished y’all knew y’all were trans as young children, if y’all didn’t, and like were able to raise a fuss and change something? I kinda wish I actually knew about trans people as a kid, so I could’ve known more about myself and implored my parents as a young child more.

I categorically reject the notion that an adolescent child is capable of legitimately understanding the complexities of gender identification, evaluating their own Id and superego, and creating a valid gendered ego of themselves.

As a young adult into adulthood? Sure.

[Auzkhia]

"Xier/Xiem/Xien"?

I'm not exactly sure what the f*ck those words are, but I'll be perfectly honest here...

They sound as illogical as "Latinx" (and the hypermajority of Latin language speakers will tell you that it does not match the Latin pronouns, which are gendered and will most likely stay so for a long time).

I don't see the point in trying to shove a cube into a circular hole, it just won't work.

This is for German, since German has no good gender-neutral pronoun. Xier/Xien/Xiem is the most well-known out of the proposed neopronouns. In English I use the singular they. X isn't really common in most German words. X in Spanish is usually pronounced like the German "ch", and I think the better neutral option for Spanish would be Latine, the -e ending standing for neutral gender. Some Spanish speakers use Latin@, the at symbol as a combo of both a and o, and it sounds like Latin-ow. Latinx works in English, but not Spanish. I don't speak much Spanish, but "Latine" is more consistent with its phonology.

Have any of y’all ever wished y’all knew y’all were trans as young children, if y’all didn’t, and like were able to raise a fuss and change something? I kinda wish I actually knew about trans people as a kid, so I could’ve known more about myself and implored my parents as a young child more.

I didn't really think much of gender when I was a kid, but throughout puberty, I felt kinda off and hated to conform to most hypermasculine roles and expectations. I played with whatever toys I wanted and wore whatever I wanted, even "girl's" clothes. I wish I had knew more about stuff and not just cis-heteronormative ideas that people are just either boy or girl, and that boys love girls only and vice versa.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Have any of y’all ever wished y’all knew y’all were trans as young children, if y’all didn’t, and like were able to raise a fuss and change something? I kinda wish I actually knew about trans people as a kid, so I could’ve known more about myself and implored my parents as a young child more.

I categorically reject the notion that an adolescent child is capable of legitimately understanding the complexities of gender identification, evaluating their own Id and superego, and creating a valid gendered ego of themselves.

As a young adult into adulthood? Sure.

I actually agree

[Vassenor]

Have any of y’all ever wished y’all knew y’all were trans as young children, if y’all didn’t, and like were able to raise a fuss and change something? I kinda wish I actually knew about trans people as a kid, so I could’ve known more about myself and implored my parents as a young child more.

I categorically reject the notion that an adolescent child is capable of legitimately understanding the complexities of gender identification, evaluating their own Id and superego, and creating a valid gendered ego of themselves.

As a young adult into adulthood? Sure.

And that is why the strongest intervention given to children is medication to merely delay the onset of puberty.

[Tarsonis]

I categorically reject the notion that an adolescent child is capable of legitimately understanding the complexities of gender identification, evaluating their own Id and superego, and creating a valid gendered ego of themselves.

As a young adult into adulthood? Sure.

And that is why the strongest intervention given to children is medication to merely delay the onset of puberty.

Aka child abuse

[Vassenor]

And that is why the strongest intervention given to children is medication to merely delay the onset of puberty.

Aka child abuse

In what way?

[Valgora]

And that is why the strongest intervention given to children is medication to merely delay the onset of puberty.

Aka child abuse

It is only child abuse if it is forced upon the child without their consent.

[Tarsonis]

Aka child abuse

It is only child abuse if it is forced upon the child without their consent.

And what 9 year old is capable of adequately making that decision, understanding all the info about the procedure, and making informed consent? With the exception of the sheldon coopers of the world, 0.

[Vassenor]

It is only child abuse if it is forced upon the child without their consent.

And what 9 year old is capable of adequately making that decision, understanding all the info about the procedure, and making informed consent? With the exception of the sheldon coopers of the world, 0.

You're missing the key word there - Delay. If the medication is stopped, puberty resumes its biological course. The idea is merely to delay until the individual is capable of making said decision.

[Tarsonis]

Aka child abuse

In what way?

Artificially suppressing puberty, for a child who cannot reasonably make a decision about their gender identity, is nothing short of unethical. It's not like simply hitting pause on development as people make the claim. It can lead to developmental issues later on life.

Further more, studies have repeatedly shown that gender dysphoria usually doesn't persist past adolescence. Essentially, once they actually hit puberty, most children's genders conform to their sex. Which means that more than likely said child with "grow out of it" during puberty. Suppressing puberty actively blocks this correction.


The notion suppressing puberty is good medicine is nothing short of ideological nonsense, that flies in the face of observable fact.

[Vassenor]

In what way?

Artificially suppressing puberty, for a child who cannot reasonably make a decision about their gender identity, is nothing short of unethical. It's not like simply hitting pause on development as people make the claim. It can lead to developmental issues later on life.

Further more, studies have repeatedly shown that gender dysphoria usually doesn't persist past adolescence. Essentially, once they actually hit puberty, most children's genders conform to their sex. Which means that more than likely said child with "grow out of it" during puberty. Suppressing puberty actively blocks this correction.


The notion suppressing puberty is good medicine is nothing short of ideological nonsense, that flies in the face of observable fact.

Let's see those studies. Speaking as a twenty-something who still has to deal with GD symptoms.

[Ifreann]

It is only child abuse if it is forced upon the child without their consent.

And what 9 year old is capable of adequately making that decision, understanding all the info about the procedure, and making informed consent? With the exception of the sheldon coopers of the world, 0.

What 9 year olds are hitting puberty? Shit, get them some puberty blockers even if they're cis.

[Vassenor]

And again, you're missing the DELAY part of it. If symptoms do desist, then the medication can be withdrawn and puberty continues along its biological path.

[The New California Republic]

And that is why the strongest intervention given to children is medication to merely delay the onset of puberty.

Aka child abuse

Find me a definition of child abuse which states that giving hormone blockers to an early teenage child with their consent is child abuse. I'll save you some time: you won't find one.

[Valgora]

In what way?

Artificially suppressing puberty, for a child who cannot reasonably make a decision about their gender identity, is nothing short of unethical. It's not like simply hitting pause on development as people make the claim. It can lead to developmental issues later on life.

Further more, studies have repeatedly shown that gender dysphoria usually doesn't persist past adolescence. Essentially, once they actually hit puberty, most children's genders conform to their sex. Which means that more than likely said child with "grow out of it" during puberty. Suppressing puberty actively blocks this correction.


The notion suppressing puberty is good medicine is nothing short of ideological nonsense, that flies in the face of observable fact.

What are the studies that you speak of?

And suppressing puberty for a child ain't unethical.
For one: they are used when children begin puberty too young - if their bodies start to change before the age of 8, they are prescribed puberty blockers.
They are also a safe medication.
"Dr. Courtney Finlayson, a pediatric endocrinologist at Lurie Children’s Hospital, said, 'We have a lot of experience in pediatric endocrinology using pubertal blockers. And from all the evidence we have they are generally a very safe medication.'"

Also:
"'That’s really what these pubertal blockers do,' Dr. Rob Garofalo told FRONTLINE. Garofalo is the director of the Lurie Children’s Hospital’s Gender and Sex Development Program. 'They allow these families the opportunity to hit a pause button, to prevent natal puberty … until we know that that’s either the right or the wrong direction for their particular child.'

Doctors who use puberty blockers say they allow children who experience gender dysphoria — the feeling that they’re in the wrong body — the time and space to explore and settle on their gender identity."

Quotes are from: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/arti ... d-unknown/


"Puberty blockers are commonly used for the transgender community. In this community, puberty blockers are used to provide transgender youth with time to further explore their identity, while halting the development of their predisposed sex characteristics caused by the onset of puberty.
...
Puberty blockers serve the transgender community by giving future trans men and trans women more time to solidify their gender identity, without developing secondary sex characteristics. If a child later decides not to transition to another gender, the effects of puberty blockers can be reversed by stopping the medication. Another function of puberty blockers is that it gives the future transgender individual a smoother transition into their desired gender identity as an adult."
- Wikipedia

[Appalachian Communists]

Guess who's out to her family?

Related: guess who's being made to see a therapist because she's apparently mentally ill?

[Bienenhalde]

They sound as illogical as "Latinx" (and the hypermajority of Latin language speakers will tell you that it does not match the Latin pronouns, which are gendered and will most likely stay so for a long time).

Why not just call people "Latin-American", for goodness sake?

[Khasinkonia]

Artificially suppressing puberty, for a child who cannot reasonably make a decision about their gender identity, is nothing short of unethical. It's not like simply hitting pause on development as people make the claim. It can lead to developmental issues later on life.

Further more, studies have repeatedly shown that gender dysphoria usually doesn't persist past adolescence. Essentially, once they actually hit puberty, most children's genders conform to their sex. Which means that more than likely said child with "grow out of it" during puberty. Suppressing puberty actively blocks this correction.


The notion suppressing puberty is good medicine is nothing short of ideological nonsense, that flies in the face of observable fact.

What are the studies that you speak of?

And suppressing puberty for a child ain't unethical.
For one: they are used when children begin puberty too young - if their bodies start to change before the age of 8, they are prescribed puberty blockers.
They are also a safe medication.
"Dr. Courtney Finlayson, a pediatric endocrinologist at Lurie Children’s Hospital, said, 'We have a lot of experience in pediatric endocrinology using pubertal blockers. And from all the evidence we have they are generally a very safe medication.'"

Also:
"'That’s really what these pubertal blockers do,' Dr. Rob Garofalo told FRONTLINE. Garofalo is the director of the Lurie Children’s Hospital’s Gender and Sex Development Program. 'They allow these families the opportunity to hit a pause button, to prevent natal puberty … until we know that that’s either the right or the wrong direction for their particular child.'

Doctors who use puberty blockers say they allow children who experience gender dysphoria — the feeling that they’re in the wrong body — the time and space to explore and settle on their gender identity."

Quotes are from: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/arti ... d-unknown/


"Puberty blockers are commonly used for the transgender community. In this community, puberty blockers are used to provide transgender youth with time to further explore their identity, while halting the development of their predisposed sex characteristics caused by the onset of puberty.
...
Puberty blockers serve the transgender community by giving future trans men and trans women more time to solidify their gender identity, without developing secondary sex characteristics. If a child later decides not to transition to another gender, the effects of puberty blockers can be reversed by stopping the medication. Another function of puberty blockers is that it gives the future transgender individual a smoother transition into their desired gender identity as an adult."
- Wikipedia

You see, this would’ve made my extremely stressful puberty start a lot easier. If I’d’ve known to try to get blockers, maybe my life would be a lot easier now as a prepubescent questioning teen than a midpubescent teen who’s developed firm convictions because of how painful puberty has been. And the damage done in the wrong puberty to bodies like mine can’t be undone, while blockers simply delay puberty, meaning the only permanent effect is the child entered puberty later than their peers.

[The New California Republic]

Puberty blockers serve the transgender community by giving future trans men and trans women more time to solidify their gender identity, without developing secondary sex characteristics. If a child later decides not to transition to another gender, the effects of puberty blockers can be reversed by stopping the medication. Another function of puberty blockers is that it gives the future transgender individual a smoother transition into their desired gender identity as an adult."
- Wikipedia

Yup. What is less harmful here: allowing a child who identifies as trans to temporarily block puberty in order to figure out who they are, or telling them that they are not allowed them, and subsequently have to go through the trauma of surgery when they are older to remove secondary sex characteristics such as breasts?

[Khasinkonia]

Puberty blockers serve the transgender community by giving future trans men and trans women more time to solidify their gender identity, without developing secondary sex characteristics. If a child later decides not to transition to another gender, the effects of puberty blockers can be reversed by stopping the medication. Another function of puberty blockers is that it gives the future transgender individual a smoother transition into their desired gender identity as an adult."
- Wikipedia

Yup. What is less harmful here: allowing a child who identifies as trans to temporarily block puberty in order to figure out who they are, or telling them that they are not allowed them, and subsequently have to go through the trauma of surgery when they are older to remove secondary sex characteristics such as breasts?

I reckon the medical equivalent of extra time is probably less invasive and disruptive than literal surgeries and hormonal 180°s mid-puberty or after puberty.

[Hediacrana]

Guess who's out to her family?

Related: guess who's being made to see a therapist because she's apparently mentally ill?

Sounds like they did not take it as well as one might have hoped.

[Auzkhia]

Guess who's out to her family?

Related: guess who's being made to see a therapist because she's apparently mentally ill?

A real therapist who will support and help you or one who will try to "convert" you to being cishet? There's a strong difference.