Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I'm queuing that on YT to watch it. Thanks for sharing it.

No problem! I love Contra - she's been one of my faves as a baby trans and a baby leftist honestly

Girl, she's hilarious. Very informative however, and biting. I like her channel. I'm going to follow her.

[Grenartia]

Yes. I must admit I have a serious dislike for the whole "you are to the left of the spectrum, you must love the USSR!" nonsense. There is a difference between weighing up both sides of the argument on the one hand, and throwing myself at Stalin's feet...


Yup. Correlation =/= causation. Just because LGBT rights have shown to be capable of being advanced under a capitalist economic system doesn't mean that said system is the cause of it. It'd take a shit ton of evidence for me to start believing that it is capitalism itself that has improved LGBT rights...

1. I’m not saying that left-libertarians love the USSR, but 2. I’m not going to fall into this “whataboutism” when it homes to homophobia in the USSR. 3. Plus, there is this idea that the entire LGBT community is a hive mind, 4. and have this belief that “LGBT culture” will thrive under a one party socialist society.

5. My first question is that what is “LGBT culture”, because to be quite blunt, the two places I fell most uncomfortable, most out of place and most ostracized are in a homophobic churches and LGBT events, like the local pride festival. I guess it just my “straight acting privilege” that I fit in with a group of heterosexuals or a non-LGBT themed event rather than an LGBT event. And my intentions not to disparage “LGBT culture”, I’m just saying that I do fit in with said culture and I refuse to adapt myself for said culture.

6. We do have liberalism and capitalism to thank for the speed of LGBT acceptance. The idea that people decide whom they choose to have relationships with based on their own wants and needs, and not the needs of society or the collective is inherently a liberal and capitalist ideal.

1. Sure sounds like it from over here.

2. I hate Whataboutism. But there is a difference between Whataboutism and pointing out that things aren't sunshine and rainbows in the West.

3. I have literally no idea where you're getting that from, because nobody has said that.

4. Who here has advocated for that? You're literally attacking a strawman right now, and only reinforcing the idea that left-libertarians love the USSR. You're better than that. So stop it.

5. Its too nebulous for me to adequately define.

6. Yes, liberalism is to thank. But not capitalism (inb4 I get smothered with claims that liberalism is capitalism). Because, as has been shown, and pointed out to you, there are capitalist societies which have not only not accepted LGBT equality, they have actually regressed since becoming capitalist.

[Grenartia]

A few months ago, ContraPoints uploaded a video about the myths and misconceptions of "autogynephilia" and how they affect society's perception of transfem folk. As a trans woman - and especially a trans lesbian - I felt it was a very affirming and informative piece. Of course, CW for transphobic concepts and terminology in the video, but it's worth a watch if you have about 45 minutes to kill.

I believe I linked that when it was first uploaded.

EDIT: Turns out, I did:

So, Contrapoints just put out a video on Autogynephilia.

I'm queuing that on YT to watch it. Thanks for sharing it.

No problem! I love Contra - she's been one of my faves as a baby trans and a baby leftist honestly

To be fair, how can you not love Contra? When I first discovered her, I fell in love, and I haven't been a baby trans or baby leftist in quite a while.

[Auzkhia]

1. I’m not saying that left-libertarians love the USSR, but 2. I’m not going to fall into this “whataboutism” when it homes to homophobia in the USSR. 3. Plus, there is this idea that the entire LGBT community is a hive mind, 4. and have this belief that “LGBT culture” will thrive under a one party socialist society.

5. My first question is that what is “LGBT culture”, because to be quite blunt, the two places I fell most uncomfortable, most out of place and most ostracized are in a homophobic churches and LGBT events, like the local pride festival. I guess it just my “straight acting privilege” that I fit in with a group of heterosexuals or a non-LGBT themed event rather than an LGBT event. And my intentions not to disparage “LGBT culture”, I’m just saying that I do fit in with said culture and I refuse to adapt myself for said culture.

6. We do have liberalism and capitalism to thank for the speed of LGBT acceptance. The idea that people decide whom they choose to have relationships with based on their own wants and needs, and not the needs of society or the collective is inherently a liberal and capitalist ideal.

1. Sure sounds like it from over here.

2. I hate Whataboutism. But there is a difference between Whataboutism and pointing out that things aren't sunshine and rainbows in the West.

3. I have literally no idea where you're getting that from, because nobody has said that.

4. Who here has advocated for that? You're literally attacking a strawman right now, and only reinforcing the idea that left-libertarians love the USSR. You're better than that. So stop it.

5. Its too nebulous for me to adequately define.

6. Yes, liberalism is to thank. But not capitalism (inb4 I get smothered with claims that liberalism is capitalism). Because, as has been shown, and pointed out to you, there are capitalist societies which have not only not accepted LGBT equality, they have actually regressed since becoming capitalist.

In that case you're talking about social liberalism (the opposite of social conservatism and traditionalism) not economic liberalism which is free market capitalism and the opposite of protectionism.

The word liberal itself has many uses, meanings, and contexts.

LGBT culture isn't a singular entity, since many types of people are queer, and there are traditional non western "third sexes" like Hijra and Two Spirit. Straight acting is a curious word and you don't have to assimilate to the majority to be taken seriously or respected. Respectability politics is a source of community infighting.

[Arcturus Novus]

A few months ago, ContraPoints uploaded a video about the myths and misconceptions of "autogynephilia" and how they affect society's perception of transfem folk. As a trans woman - and especially a trans lesbian - I felt it was a very affirming and informative piece. Of course, CW for transphobic concepts and terminology in the video, but it's worth a watch if you have about 45 minutes to kill.

I believe I linked that when it was first uploaded.

EDIT: Turns out, I did:

So, Contrapoints just put out a video on Autogynephilia.

No problem! I love Contra - she's been one of my faves as a baby trans and a baby leftist honestly

To be fair, how can you not love Contra? When I first discovered her, I fell in love, and I haven't been a baby trans or baby leftist in quite a while.

Seems like I should pay more attention to this thread, then

[Grenartia]

I believe I linked that when it was first uploaded.

EDIT: Turns out, I did:






To be fair, how can you not love Contra? When I first discovered her, I fell in love, and I haven't been a baby trans or baby leftist in quite a while.

Seems like I should pay more attention to this thread, then

I mean, it was nearly 6 months ago.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

1. I’m not saying that left-libertarians love the USSR, but 2. I’m not going to fall into this “whataboutism” when it homes to homophobia in the USSR. 3. Plus, there is this idea that the entire LGBT community is a hive mind, 4. and have this belief that “LGBT culture” will thrive under a one party socialist society.

5. My first question is that what is “LGBT culture”, because to be quite blunt, the two places I fell most uncomfortable, most out of place and most ostracized are in a homophobic churches and LGBT events, like the local pride festival. I guess it just my “straight acting privilege” that I fit in with a group of heterosexuals or a non-LGBT themed event rather than an LGBT event. And my intentions not to disparage “LGBT culture”, I’m just saying that I do fit in with said culture and I refuse to adapt myself for said culture.

6. We do have liberalism and capitalism to thank for the speed of LGBT acceptance. The idea that people decide whom they choose to have relationships with based on their own wants and needs, and not the needs of society or the collective is inherently a liberal and capitalist ideal.

1. Sure sounds like it from over here.

2. I hate Whataboutism. But there is a difference between Whataboutism and pointing out that things aren't sunshine and rainbows in the West.

3. I have literally no idea where you're getting that from, because nobody has said that.

4. Who here has advocated for that? You're literally attacking a strawman right now, and only reinforcing the idea that left-libertarians love the USSR. You're better than that. So stop it.

5. Its too nebulous for me to adequately define.

6. Yes, liberalism is to thank. But not capitalism (inb4 I get smothered with claims that liberalism is capitalism). Because, as has been shown, and pointed out to you, there are capitalist societies which have not only not accepted LGBT equality, they have actually regressed since becoming capitalist.

If you can’t see the clear as day oxymoron in statement #2, then I can’t really help you. As for statement #4, people in this thread were raving how good LGBT rights were in GDR or how good LGBT rights are in Cuba, both which were/are one party authoritarian socialist states. I enjoy my political freedom too much to live in the former GDR or Cuba. I enjoy having the right to openly criticize the government without of fear of death, imprisonment or “reeducation”.

Capitalism is a part of liberalism. Can capitalism be practiced by authoritarian governments? In a way, I guess one could say they do, but this does not mean capitalism is not a liberal value and principle. Socialism is a collectivist and authoritarian value and principle. It strips a person’s identity and individualism away for the interest of the common good. This is not ideal for LGBT individuals.....

And this brings me to statement #5 which I believes deserves the most discussion, since the we cannot not put a hard definition on who or what defines the so-called “LGBT community” or “LGBT culture”, perhaps an individualist and liberal society is what’s best for the said LGBT community or LGBT culture? An liberal and individualist society which benefits LGBT individuals, especially the non-binary individuals works best in a capitalist, property owning Democracy. In a Socialist and collectivist society, LGBT individuals can be accused of acting in their own (rational) self-interest, and not in the best interest of society as a whole.

[Bombadil]

Some fun stuff from FOX News..

“They keep pushing out this idea, LGBTQ. We did the ‘L’ and the ‘G,’ they legalized marriage for themselves. We’re doing the ‘T’ now, the trans, and this is a big, big challenge in our society right now. They did the ‘Q’ where they’re changing all the textbooks, even as low as kindergarten, to reflect that you don’t know what you are, you’re questioning. But notice they skipped over the ‘B,’ and there are some that say this ‘B’ is going to bombard us with real vileness in our society if they get what they want because it’s not about bisexuality, it’s about bestiality.”

Jerry Newcombe, the host of the show, offered some gentle pushback, saying, “You’re not saying though that officially the ‘B’ in LGBTQ stands for bestiality, it still stands for bisexuality but you’re saying that some are using it in that way.”

“We do know that there is an agenda and we do know that there have been discussions about bestiality in their closed doors. I’m just saying, don’t be surprised if we find out that that ‘B’ is not what they said publicly… that we just love each other, that it may, in law, show up as something else.”

It's 2018.. remember that..

[Grenartia]

1. Sure sounds like it from over here.

2. I hate Whataboutism. But there is a difference between Whataboutism and pointing out that things aren't sunshine and rainbows in the West.

3. I have literally no idea where you're getting that from, because nobody has said that.

4. Who here has advocated for that? You're literally attacking a strawman right now, and only reinforcing the idea that left-libertarians love the USSR. You're better than that. So stop it.

5. Its too nebulous for me to adequately define.

6. Yes, liberalism is to thank. But not capitalism (inb4 I get smothered with claims that liberalism is capitalism). Because, as has been shown, and pointed out to you, there are capitalist societies which have not only not accepted LGBT equality, they have actually regressed since becoming capitalist.

1. If you can’t see the clear as day oxymoron in statement #2, then I can’t really help you. 2. As for statement #4, people in this thread were raving how good LGBT rights were in GDR or how good LGBT rights are in Cuba, both which were/are one party authoritarian socialist states. 3. I enjoy my political freedom too much to live in the former GDR or Cuba. I enjoy having the right to openly criticize the government without of fear of death, imprisonment or “reeducation”.

4. Capitalism is a part of liberalism. Can capitalism be practiced by authoritarian governments? In a way, I guess one could say they do, but this does not mean capitalism is not a liberal value and principle. 5. Socialism is a collectivist and authoritarian value and principle. 6. It strips a person’s identity and individualism away for the interest of the common good. This is not ideal for LGBT individuals.....

And this brings me to statement #5 which I believes deserves the most discussion, since the we cannot not put a hard definition on who or what defines the so-called “LGBT community” or “LGBT culture”, 7. perhaps an individualist and liberal society is what’s best for the said LGBT community or LGBT culture? 8. An liberal and individualist society which benefits LGBT individuals, especially the non-binary individuals works best in a capitalist, property owning Democracy. 9. In a Socialist and collectivist society, LGBT individuals can be accused of acting in their own (rational) self-interest, and not in the best interest of society as a whole.

1. Apparently, you can't make legitimate criticisms of the West anymore, even if you hate the USSR.

2. Yes, in an attempt to refute your claim that progress on LGBT issues requires capitalism.

3. As do I, and I suspect most of us here. But that doesn't change the fact that they both prove your claim false.

4. Not inherently. I'm a liberal socialist.

5. Swingandamiss. I have no interest in authoritarianism, and no collectivist would count me as being one of them.

6. Not inherently, or else I wouldn't support it.

7. If said people are held in economic slavery to corporate fatcats, then they might as well not be living in a free individualist society at all.

8. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

That's me pressing X to doubt.

9. You wouldn't know true socialism if it gave you the right to marry. Every statement you've made in this thread concerning what you perceive socialism to be backs that assessment up. If you're going to argue against something, at least learn what it actually is instead of assuming what you were told by some 50s McCarthyist propaganda video or PragerU ad is all you need to know.

[Grenartia]

Some fun stuff from FOX News..

“They keep pushing out this idea, LGBTQ. We did the ‘L’ and the ‘G,’ they legalized marriage for themselves. We’re doing the ‘T’ now, the trans, and this is a big, big challenge in our society right now. They did the ‘Q’ where they’re changing all the textbooks, even as low as kindergarten, to reflect that you don’t know what you are, you’re questioning. But notice they skipped over the ‘B,’ and there are some that say this ‘B’ is going to bombard us with real vileness in our society if they get what they want because it’s not about bisexuality, it’s about bestiality.”

Jerry Newcombe, the host of the show, offered some gentle pushback, saying, “You’re not saying though that officially the ‘B’ in LGBTQ stands for bestiality, it still stands for bisexuality but you’re saying that some are using it in that way.”

“We do know that there is an agenda and we do know that there have been discussions about bestiality in their closed doors. I’m just saying, don’t be surprised if we find out that that ‘B’ is not what they said publicly… that we just love each other, that it may, in law, show up as something else.”

It's 2018.. remember that..

Dumbfuck News, everybody.

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

Some fun stuff from FOX News..

“They keep pushing out this idea, LGBTQ. We did the ‘L’ and the ‘G,’ they legalized marriage for themselves. We’re doing the ‘T’ now, the trans, and this is a big, big challenge in our society right now. They did the ‘Q’ where they’re changing all the textbooks, even as low as kindergarten, to reflect that you don’t know what you are, you’re questioning. But notice they skipped over the ‘B,’ and there are some that say this ‘B’ is going to bombard us with real vileness in our society if they get what they want because it’s not about bisexuality, it’s about bestiality.”

Jerry Newcombe, the host of the show, offered some gentle pushback, saying, “You’re not saying though that officially the ‘B’ in LGBTQ stands for bestiality, it still stands for bisexuality but you’re saying that some are using it in that way.”

“We do know that there is an agenda and we do know that there have been discussions about bestiality in their closed doors. I’m just saying, don’t be surprised if we find out that that ‘B’ is not what they said publicly… that we just love each other, that it may, in law, show up as something else.”

It's 2018.. remember that..

My only two questions are who is this person saying these things and why should I care? Especially, on an outlet like Fox News?

[Geneviev]

What does transtrender mean? The most useful Google can't decide.

[Vassenor]

What does transtrender mean? The most useful Google can't decide.

Derogatory term used by TERFs and the like for people who they see as just pretending to be trans* to be cool or something like that.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Some fun stuff from FOX News..

“They keep pushing out this idea, LGBTQ. We did the ‘L’ and the ‘G,’ they legalized marriage for themselves. We’re doing the ‘T’ now, the trans, and this is a big, big challenge in our society right now. They did the ‘Q’ where they’re changing all the textbooks, even as low as kindergarten, to reflect that you don’t know what you are, you’re questioning. But notice they skipped over the ‘B,’ and there are some that say this ‘B’ is going to bombard us with real vileness in our society if they get what they want because it’s not about bisexuality, it’s about bestiality.”

Jerry Newcombe, the host of the show, offered some gentle pushback, saying, “You’re not saying though that officially the ‘B’ in LGBTQ stands for bestiality, it still stands for bisexuality but you’re saying that some are using it in that way.”

“We do know that there is an agenda and we do know that there have been discussions about bestiality in their closed doors. I’m just saying, don’t be surprised if we find out that that ‘B’ is not what they said publicly… that we just love each other, that it may, in law, show up as something else.”

It's 2018.. remember that..

Dumbfuck News, everybody.

Faux News, always proving that it's headed by fucktards.

[Geneviev]

What does transtrender mean? The most useful Google can't decide.

Derogatory term used by TERFs and the like for people who they see as just pretending to be trans* to be cool or something like that.

Okay. Thanks.

[Jelmatt]

What does transtrender mean? The most useful Google can't decide.

People who pretend to be trans because it's cool or whatever. Do they exist? Eh, yeah, maybe. Do they exist in any significant numbers that actually affect anything, outside of liberal high schools and tumblr? Probably not.

[NeoOasis]

Some fun stuff from FOX News..

“They keep pushing out this idea, LGBTQ. We did the ‘L’ and the ‘G,’ they legalized marriage for themselves. We’re doing the ‘T’ now, the trans, and this is a big, big challenge in our society right now. They did the ‘Q’ where they’re changing all the textbooks, even as low as kindergarten, to reflect that you don’t know what you are, you’re questioning. But notice they skipped over the ‘B,’ and there are some that say this ‘B’ is going to bombard us with real vileness in our society if they get what they want because it’s not about bisexuality, it’s about bestiality.”

Jerry Newcombe, the host of the show, offered some gentle pushback, saying, “You’re not saying though that officially the ‘B’ in LGBTQ stands for bestiality, it still stands for bisexuality but you’re saying that some are using it in that way.”

“We do know that there is an agenda and we do know that there have been discussions about bestiality in their closed doors. I’m just saying, don’t be surprised if we find out that that ‘B’ is not what they said publicly… that we just love each other, that it may, in law, show up as something else.”

It's 2018.. remember that..

My only two questions are who is this person saying these things and why should I care? Especially, on an outlet like Fox News?

You should care because a wide spread of the US population watches this shit, eats it up, and then regurgitates it. They will buy into this lie, and then look upon the rest of the community accordingly. They will keep that beastiality comment in mind when going to vote, and elect people like Roy Moore or Mike Huckabee. Those people in turn will push a hardline agenda that not only keeps non-heteros from enjoying basic human rights, but will try to justify failed methods of "curing they gay."

This is the shit that could lead to higher rates of hate crime and murder.

A tiny lie can have a massive impact on society.

That is why you should care.

[Thuzbekistan]

My only two questions are who is this person saying these things and why should I care? Especially, on an outlet like Fox News?

You should care because a wide spread of the US population watches this shit, eats it up, and then regurgitates it. They will buy into this lie, and then look upon the rest of the community accordingly. They will keep that beastiality comment in mind when going to vote, and elect people like Roy Moore or Mike Huckabee. Those people in turn will push a hardline agenda that not only keeps non-heteros from enjoying basic human rights, but will try to justify failed methods of "curing they gay."

This is the shit that could lead to higher rates of hate crime and murder.

A tiny lie can have a massive impact on society.

That is why you should care.

I'd like to know what basic human rights LGBT people t have....

[Torrocca]

Not gonna lie, I'm shocked I only just found this thread. Not transgendered myself (at least, as far as I'm aware) but I'm definitely supportive of transgender rights and issues faced by transgender people. So, here's a post of solidarity with that in mind <3

[NeoOasis]

You should care because a wide spread of the US population watches this shit, eats it up, and then regurgitates it. They will buy into this lie, and then look upon the rest of the community accordingly. They will keep that beastiality comment in mind when going to vote, and elect people like Roy Moore or Mike Huckabee. Those people in turn will push a hardline agenda that not only keeps non-heteros from enjoying basic human rights, but will try to justify failed methods of "curing they gay."

This is the shit that could lead to higher rates of hate crime and murder.

A tiny lie can have a massive impact on society.

That is why you should care.

I'd like to know what basic human rights LGBT people t have....

See your loved one in a hospital, be able to adopt, get married, file taxes jointly, buy a cake, not have people ask for your birth certificate when trying to take a piss, not being electrocuted under the guise of "treatment..." You know... the things straight people take for granted.

Granted most of the things I've listed aren't something the LGBT community currently enjoys... partially thanks to the people who buy into the bullshit Fox News spreads...

[Delta-9 Tetrahydrocannabinol]

My only two questions are who is this person saying these things and why should I care? Especially, on an outlet like Fox News?

You should care because a wide spread of the US population watches this shit, eats it up, and then regurgitates it. They will buy into this lie, and then look upon the rest of the community accordingly. They will keep that beastiality comment in mind when going to vote, and elect people like Roy Moore or Mike Huckabee. Those people in turn will push a hardline agenda that not only keeps non-heteros from enjoying basic human rights, but will try to justify failed methods of "curing they gay."

This is the shit that could lead to higher rates of hate crime and murder.

A tiny lie can have a massive impact on society.

That is why you should care.

Fox News is known to spout right-wing bullshit, so nobody should really be surprised that on is said on there. You assume the vast majority of cisgendered do NOT believe the homophobic bullshit anti-LGBT segments of right-wing media spew? The people that view that homosexuality is equal to beastiality already have their mind made up...

[Grenartia]

What does transtrender mean? The most useful Google can't decide.

Derogatory term used by TERFs and the like for people who they see as just pretending to be trans* to be cool or something like that.

To be fair, I'd apply it to the "Racecargender is VALID" types.

Not gonna lie, I'm shocked I only just found this thread. Not transgendered myself (at least, as far as I'm aware) but I'm definitely supportive of transgender rights and issues faced by transgender people. So, here's a post of solidarity with that in mind <3

Thanks.

[Auzkhia]

What does transtrender mean? The most useful Google can't decide.

It's what transmedicalists and truscum. use to describe people who are allegedly faking being transgender, often applied to trans people with little to no dysphoria, non binary people in particular. People who call other people "Transtrenders" hate non-binary people and blame transphobia on them because respectability poltics. It's gatekeeping and transmeds want to treat being trans like a medical condition and they insist you need dysphoria to be trans and medically transitioning with HRT or SRS is a must, rather than not identifying with your assigned sex at birth.

[Vassenor]

So, what do you guys think of people calling traps gay?

Felling deja vu asking this.

I've already made my feelings about the term "trap" quite well known.

[Dumb Ideologies]

So, what do you guys think of people calling traps gay?

Felling deja vu asking this.