Transgender Discussion Thread III: Vote in our poll!

[Liriena]

THe person having sex believed as was sexually attacted to a person presenitng as the opposite sex, so not homosexual. The person who was trans was having sex with someone who was presenting as the opposite sex as the one they where presenting as,also not homosexual.

"presenting", that's the important word there. The term "trap" was coined for a reason, after all. ;^)

The reason being decades of the Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

With the advent of the internet, that trope intermingled with the "futas" and "dickgirls" of Eastern Asian fetish porn.

[Neutraligon]

"presenting", that's the important word there. The term "trap" was coined for a reason, after all. ;^)

The reason being decades of Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

Which of course Aellex is...coincidentally...using here.

[Philjia]

"presenting", that's the important word there. The term "trap" was coined for a reason, after all. ;^)

The reason being decades of Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

Trap hentai itself barely uses the trope.

[Aellex]

I will repeat since you seem unable to read, I do not see deception going on. Since I see no deception going on how can I then support people deceiving others? You are making no sense whatsoever.

If it looks like a duck, act like a duck and quack like a duck, you not "seeing it" as a duck changes nothing to what it actually is. :^)

Pot meet silverware. I am the silverware. It wasn't me who said that there was nothing anyone could say that could convince me I was wrong.

A rust-bitten silverware, blacker than pot then. And you've yet to give me any conclusive evidences that traps aren't gays if you want to try and change my opinion. :^)

Except that them being trans says absolutely nothing. The person they where with saw who they where as a person, and still liked them, no deception. They saw what organs they had (continuing with this ridiculous hypothetical that a trans person will not reveal before having sex) and did not complain, no deception.

It says a lot, actually. There was deception at every step because the partner simply assumed that the person wouldn't be lying about their sex and thus accepted it as so.
If you're serving mud as if it's chocolate, some people might be tricked and eat it nonetheless; that doesn't mean they would have had they knew the truth about what was on their plate.

First again no deception taking place. Second given that revealing this places a trans individual in direct danger, particularly for one night stands you are immoral for insisting they reveal it.

First again, total deception taking place. Second, tricking people into homosexual sex isn't something that should be encouraged.

[Luminesa]

"presenting", that's the important word there. The term "trap" was coined for a reason, after all. ;^)

The reason being decades of the Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

With the advent of the internet, that trope intermingled with the "futas" and "dickgirls" of Eastern Asian fetish porn.

...Whut?

[Philjia]

I will repeat since you seem unable to read, I do not see deception going on. Since I see no deception going on how can I then support people deceiving others? You are making no sense whatsoever.

If it looks like a duck, act like a duck and quack like a duck, you not "seeing it" as a duck changes nothing to what it actually is. :^)

What if it's been given a goose's brain?

[Aellex]

So you are using it to flame people? It isn't a trap, and you are the only one using that term.

No, I'm using it because it's accurately describing what you're advocating for.

[Philjia]

The reason being decades of the Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

With the advent of the internet, that trope intermingled with the "futas" and "dickgirls" of Eastern Asian fetish porn.

...Whut?

Otherwise entirely normal girls with penises. Usually really big penises.

[Dylar]

The reason being decades of the Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

With the advent of the internet, that trope intermingled with the "futas" and "dickgirls" of Eastern Asian fetish porn.

...Whut?

Yeah, it's a thing. Trust me, when you're a kid who hasn't been paying attention to his faith until recently, you see a lot of weird shit on the Web...*shudders* I can still hear the screams...

[Luminesa]

If it looks like a duck, act like a duck and quack like a duck, you not "seeing it" as a duck changes nothing to what it actually is. :^)

What if it's been given a goose's brain?

But a "duck" and a "goose" are not equivalent terms to "male" and "female". Unless all men are ducks and all girls are geese. Which would give me more questions about how they make eggs. And now I'm hungry because I want eggs.

[Luminesa]

...Whut?

Otherwise entirely normal girls with penises. Usually really big penises.

Ummm...lovely. Yes. *Nods and slowly backs away.*

[Luminesa]

...Whut?

Yeah, it's a thing. Trust me, when you're a kid who hasn't been paying attention to his faith until recently, you see a lot of weird shit on the Web...*shudders* I can still hear the screams...

FAM. DO NOT NEED TO KNOW YOUR INTERNET HISTORY.

[Aellex]

What if it's been given a goose's brain?

Utterly irrelevant to the rooster who isn't into cocks. :^)

[United Muscovite Nations]

That people attack trans people is not evidence that any particular individual would attack a trans person.

That people attack trans people at rates vastly greater than the general population is evidence that there's no such thing as being too cautious.

So you're priding yourself in not being able to manage more than "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces on me and sticks on you" ?
Well, whatever float your boat, I guess.

I mean, its on the same level as your petty bullshit, so I figured you'd understand it better.

I doubt it. I don't think it's ever okay to deceive someone into violating their religious doctrine, under any circumstances. It fundamentally violates the other person's religious freedom.

And I don't think its ever ok to coerce somebody into endangering themselves for somebody else's petty comfort. I'll endanger myself to save somebody else's life, but not so they can sleep better at night.

It's not just so they can sleep better at night, and it's not coercing someone into endangering themselves. If you don't know that someone would beat you up, you shouldn't date them in the first place, either.

[Liriena]

The reason being decades of Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

Trap hentai itself barely uses the trope.

But it wasn't the Japanese who named it that, was it?

[Vassenor]

The reason being decades of Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

Trap hentai itself barely uses the trope.

Yeah, the term is something that western audiences applied to otokonoko works and such.

[Khalisako]

Otherwise entirely normal girls with penises. Usually really big penises.

Ummm...lovely. Yes. *Nods and slowly backs away.*

Yes, don't question it. It's better this way.

[Liriena]

The reason being decades of the Western culture industry propagating the "trans deceiver" cliché. See: a bunch of comedies, and the occasional non-comedic films, featuring the "omg the sexy chick i like secretly had a dick gross" plot twist, usually followed by the bamboozled straight guy projectile vomiting, because that's a totally mature and reasonable response to the existence of trans women.

With the advent of the internet, that trope intermingled with the "futas" and "dickgirls" of Eastern Asian fetish porn.

...Whut?

Yup. For the sake of not pushing the limits of our PG-13 rules, though, I'll leave it there.

[Dylar]

Yeah, it's a thing. Trust me, when you're a kid who hasn't been paying attention to his faith until recently, you see a lot of weird shit on the Web...*shudders* I can still hear the screams...

FAM. DO NOT NEED TO KNOW YOUR INTERNET HISTORY.

My apologies. *cough*Newgrounds [E-rated]Flash games!*cough*

[Luminesa]

FAM. DO NOT NEED TO KNOW YOUR INTERNET HISTORY.

My apologies. *cough*Newgrounds [E-rated]Flash games!*cough*

...Looking back, it never ceases to amaze me how I ignored how awful that site was...Good gracious...Of course, I usually was able to avoid the porn, but everything was still so...ughhhh...

[Philjia]

What if it's been given a goose's brain?

Utterly irrelevant to the rooster who isn't into cocks. :^)

That's their problem.

[Grenartia]

Why is it ok to expect somebody to endanger themselves so somebody else doesn't have a petty existential crisis over events outside their control?

1. Why is it a petty existential crisis? Of course, this all might relate to how one views sex. If you view sex as, "I use you, you use me," okay, the person may not need to disclose their name to you. Might be a one-night stand. If you view sex as, "The culmination of a relationship of mutual love and trust that has built slowly, after years of getting to know one another," it might be a big deal. 2. No, it doesn't have to end in violence, if the person who discovers the truth is capable of controlling themselves and handling the matter rationally. 3. If they cannot, and you have noticed in prior interactions that they cannot control themselves on specific matters, you should not be dating them in the first place.

4. And of course, this revolves around the fact that you really cannot force a person into a relationship simply on the basis of one's gender identity. If you are cis or trans, what matters is you find someone who, if you tell them you are either, say, "Okay, sure." You know what I mean. 5. If they threaten to harm you, or if you sense an aspect to their personality that is inherently dangerous, get away from them. You do not want to lock yourself in an unhealthy relationship with someone who only wants to control you. 6. Vice-versa, you should not seek to trick someone, in any aspect of a relationship, about yourself, because a true relationship should be about giving 100% for your lover.

7. If you're hiding something that is so important and inherent to your being right at the beginning of the relationship, think about the other person. Of course, if they're chill with it, then that's not a problem. If they aren't, think about why. What if they have a lot of social anxiety? What if they're the type (possibly like myself) who might wonder, "Wait. If they hide X (any feature, not necessarily transsexuality, but something else that might be very important to know), what else are they hiding?" Or what if they've had lots of people around them hide secrets, they want a relationship that is truthful and honest, and then you hide from them that they're trans? There are little intricacies to such things you need to think about. You do need to think about the other person. It may not be simply because the person is trans that they may not want to date. 8. Maybe they just have trust issues.

And ultimately, nobody should ever sell themselves short because they are afraid of being harmed in a relationship. If you're trans, and you're hiding it so you'll find someone, 9. that might be like me hiding I'm Catholic to try and get a non-Catholic, or maybe even a non-practicing Catholic (plenty exist, after all). 10. If it hurts, and if it takes so much effort to hide, especially if it's something so important to you, why must you put yourself through that pain? That pain that will suck the life out of your relationship, and that will ultimately cause the relationship to turn in on itself? 11. The point of a relationship should be to find someone who loves you for you, not to hide parts of yourself that are inherent to who you are. Otherwise, that person is loving an idea of the person they know, not the person they actually are with. And in the meantime, both of you, in some way, are hurt. And that's not how a relationship should be.

1. Its a petty existential crisis, because any violation that happened was not the fault of the believer in question. Its equivalent to begging mercy for being a thief because somebody offered you a chip from a bag that wasn't theirs.

2. Sure. But too many people don't meet that criteria.

3. Which goes without saying, but the simple fact is, that's not always apparent. Ever been in an abusive relationship, or know somebody who has? I have. Assholes like that can be very good at camouflaging their true intentions.

4. Nobody's trying to argue otherwise.

5. Obviously.

6. None of us really want to trick people. Its simply an act of being confident they're alright to disclose to before disclosing, to maximize safety. I mean, how many girls do you know clench their keys in their fists to use as a weapon when they're walking to their car or their house at night? Its the same basic principle.

7. Well, generally, in that situation, we sincerely explain not only what we've been hiding, but why, and express our desire that we didn't have to hide it. There's also an implicit need to thank them for proving themselves trustworthy, as well as a commitment to always be open and honest in the future. Disclosure is way more than "Yo, for the last month or so, I've been hiding that I'm transgender, now lets fuck."

8. Kind of hard to be trans and have an active sex/romance life and not also have issues with trusting people. Disclosure isn't something you do right before sex (though it should happen before sex). Its something that happens when the relationship starts getting serious, and when you've judged that the person won't freak the fuck out over it. Yes, that implies holding off on sex until the time is right. Surely, the religiously devout in this thread can appreciate that.

9. I mean, its pretty hard to imagine somebody freaking out over somebody being Catholic or not.

10. Because its more painful to pretend to be somebody you're not, even if it would appear to be easier from the outside looking in.

11. I mean, sure. But, again, there's the safety issue to worry about first and foremost. Unlike praying mantises, humans generally don't tend to be willing to put our love lives before our personal safety.

[Aellex]

That's their problem.

Not if the duck is lying to them about being a goose.

[Grenartia]

That people attack trans people at rates vastly greater than the general population is evidence that there's no such thing as being too cautious.



I mean, its on the same level as your petty bullshit, so I figured you'd understand it better.



And I don't think its ever ok to coerce somebody into endangering themselves for somebody else's petty comfort. I'll endanger myself to save somebody else's life, but not so they can sleep better at night.

It's not just so they can sleep better at night, and it's not coercing someone into endangering themselves. If you don't know that someone would beat you up, you shouldn't date them in the first place, either.

So, you're saying nobody should date anybody.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's not just so they can sleep better at night, and it's not coercing someone into endangering themselves. If you don't know that someone would beat you up, you shouldn't date them in the first place, either.

So, you're saying nobody should date anybody.

I'm saying that, if you don't know someone wouldn't beat you up, you have no business being in a romantic relationship with that person.