Left-Wing Discussion Thread II: Behind 700,000 Bunkers

[Pandeeria]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

Grog, banter, books.

What's your favorite far-leftist literature? I'm currently reading the Revolution Betrayed.

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

Remember that there has been other dark times in history, even worse than the (very bad, I admit) situation the world is now, and that we managed to get out of it and improve things nonetheless, thanks to those who never felt to depression and hopelessness, continued to struggle against all odds, and kept the light of the beacon shining, opening the path to the future. As Allende said in his last speech, under the bombs of Pinochet, "Other men will overcome this dark and bitter moment when treason seeks to prevail. Go forward knowing that, sooner rather than later, the great avenues will open again where free men will walk to build a better society."

Our present capitalist epoch is like none other. Hell, during the early 20th century, even after the horrors inflicted on the working class, petty and poorly done Revolutions attempted to sweep Europe, with each one being crushed. Another spike of radical thinking came with the Great Depression, and with the second World War. That time around elections were rigged, popular radicals rather arrested or somehow discredited, and any far-leftist thinking again suppressed.

Both of those times, the world was still in a desolate, war-torn shape. And the governments of those times were far more incompetent, corrupt, and far less advanced than our present regimes.

[Pandeeria]

Italian referendum defeat. Good or bad?

Explain to me what was the referendum was about.

Either way, I'm taking a shot in the dark here and assuming it probably doesn't matter much either way.

[Kubra]

Italian referendum defeat. Good or bad?

Explain to me what was the referendum was about.

Either way, I'm taking a shot in the dark here and assuming it probably doesn't matter much either way.

in a nutshell the reform is to fuck up the Senate. So-so for us imo, it seems hardly worth propping up renzi for a full term in exchange for subsequent legislative governments having substantial powers.

[Bakery Hill]

Grog, banter, books.

What's your favorite far-leftist literature? I'm currently reading the Revolution Betrayed.

Well just got a mad early xmas present on sale, a whole bunch of redlit. I've got Che and Luxemburg amongst others, and of course the big man himself. Currently going through some of Indian communist Vijay Prashad's work at the moment, the Darker Nations, about the rise and fall of the Third World movement.

[Bakery Hill]

Explain to me what was the referendum was about.

Either way, I'm taking a shot in the dark here and assuming it probably doesn't matter much either way.

in a nutshell the reform is to fuck up the Senate. So-so for us imo, it seems hardly worth propping up renzi for a full term in exchange for subsequent legislative governments having substantial powers.

Yeah that was the impression I got too. A lot of admin reforms to strengthen central government. Lega Nord is claiming a victory, but M5S most of the proper left opposed it as well.

Speaking of M5S, the Five Star Movement, what do we think of that if anything?

[Socialist Nordia]

Italian referendum defeat. Good or bad?

Explain to me what was the referendum was about.

Either way, I'm taking a shot in the dark here and assuming it probably doesn't matter much either way.

Well, it's main provisions made the size of the upper house smaller, and drastically reduce its power in favour of the lower house. It also would have made Italy more centralised, taking power away from regional governments and strengthening the federal government.

But, the referendum became more symbolic of dissatisfaction in the political system(no voters) and the goals of centre-left Prime Minister Matteo Renzi(yes voters). Renzi was really pushing for it to pass, and staked his political careers on its success. He promised to resign if it failed. Now it has, and he plans to follow through with his promise.

[Socialist Nordia]

in a nutshell the reform is to fuck up the Senate. So-so for us imo, it seems hardly worth propping up renzi for a full term in exchange for subsequent legislative governments having substantial powers.

Yeah that was the impression I got too. A lot of admin reforms to strengthen central government. Lega Nord is claiming a victory, but M5S most of the proper left opposed it as well.

Speaking of M5S, the Five Star Movement, what do we think of that if anything?

M5S is a clusterfuck with no real positions or platform. It's basically the "fuck you, everyone" party. Also, it can more accurately be described as right wing than left wing.

[MERIZoC]

in a nutshell the reform is to fuck up the Senate. So-so for us imo, it seems hardly worth propping up renzi for a full term in exchange for subsequent legislative governments having substantial powers.

Yeah that was the impression I got too. A lot of admin reforms to strengthen central government. Lega Nord is claiming a victory, but M5S most of the proper left opposed it as well.

Speaking of M5S, the Five Star Movement, what do we think of that if anything?

Redeemable elements, but Grillo is a pig and a clown.

[Conscentia]

Yeah that was the impression I got too. A lot of admin reforms to strengthen central government. Lega Nord is claiming a victory, but M5S most of the proper left opposed it as well.
Speaking of M5S, the Five Star Movement, what do we think of that if anything?

M5S is a clusterfuck with no real positions or platform. It's basically the "fuck you, everyone" party. Also, it can more accurately be described as right wing than left wing.

Why do you say that? The opening on Wikipedia lists several positions. For example: "The "five stars" are a reference to five key issues for the party: public water, sustainable transport, sustainable development, right to Internet access, and environmentalism. The party also advocates E-democracy, direct democracy,[28] the principle of "zero-cost politics",[29] degrowth,[30] and nonviolence.[31]".

[Communist Xomaniax]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

Homosexuality

[Pandeeria]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

Homosexuality

Homosexuality is the basis of all freedoms, after all.

[Communist Xomaniax]

Homosexuality

Homosexuality is the basis of all freedoms, after all.

Anti-homosexuality is code for anti-freedom

[United Marxist Nations]

Homosexuality is the basis of all freedoms, after all.

Anti-homosexuality is code for anti-freedom

Can confirm. I am anti-homosexuality, and anti-freedom.

[Bakery Hill]

Yeah that was the impression I got too. A lot of admin reforms to strengthen central government. Lega Nord is claiming a victory, but M5S most of the proper left opposed it as well.

Speaking of M5S, the Five Star Movement, what do we think of that if anything?

Redeemable elements, but Grillo is a pig and a clown.

That's my impression thus far.

[Communist Xomaniax]

Anti-homosexuality is code for anti-freedom

Can confirm. I am anti-homosexuality, and anti-freedom.

Fair enough, it's why I'm for the wholesale obliteration of the Church as an organization and the liquidation of reactionary clergy. Because it will inevitably come down to me and mine or them.

[United Marxist Nations]

Can confirm. I am anti-homosexuality, and anti-freedom.

Fair enough, it's why I'm for the wholesale obliteration of the Church as an organization and the liquidation of reactionary clergy. Because it will inevitably come down to me and mine or them.

That's even more harsh than North Korea on religion, lol.

>dude, I'm for freedom
>except for these people

Got a considerable kek from that.

[Mattopilos]

Fair enough, it's why I'm for the wholesale obliteration of the Church as an organization and the liquidation of reactionary clergy. Because it will inevitably come down to me and mine or them.

That's even more harsh than North Korea on religion, lol.

>dude, I'm for freedom
>except for these people

Got a considerable kek from that.

Well, religion kinda does that as well, so who really wins?

[United Marxist Nations]

That's even more harsh than North Korea on religion, lol.

>dude, I'm for freedom
>except for these people

Got a considerable kek from that.

Well, religion kinda does that as well, so who really wins?

We don't really claim to be for freedom.

[Communist Xomaniax]

Fair enough, it's why I'm for the wholesale obliteration of the Church as an organization and the liquidation of reactionary clergy. Because it will inevitably come down to me and mine or them.

That's even more harsh than North Korea on religion, lol.

>dude, I'm for freedom
>except for these people

Got a considerable kek from that.

It's hardly contradictory. I'm all for people practicing whatever harmless superstitions they want, but an organized, hierarchical church will always inevitably stand against the march of progress, and will inevitably become either a fifth column and standard-bearer for Reactionaries, or will seek to throw its weight around and pervert revolution.

By all means, bang your gongs and bark at the moon, but don't think that you are entitled to special privileges and exemptions on the basis of having been spoiled by society.

[United Marxist Nations]

That's even more harsh than North Korea on religion, lol.

>dude, I'm for freedom
>except for these people

Got a considerable kek from that.

It's hardly contradictory. I'm all for people practicing whatever harmless superstitions they want, but an organized, hierarchical church will always inevitably stand against the march of progress, and will inevitably become either a fifth column and standard-bearer for Reactionaries, or will seek to throw its weight around and pervert revolution.

By all means, bang your gongs and bark at the moon, but don't think that you are entitled to special privileges and exemptions on the basis of having been spoiled by society.

We cannot have our faith without our Church, so, no, you are not allowing us to practice our faith. Moreover, we weren't "standard-bearers" for reaction even under the Soviet Union, when we were persecuted greatly for our beliefs.

And what "special privileges"? Free Association?

[Communist Xomaniax]

Well, religion kinda does that as well, so who really wins?

We don't really claim to be for freedom.

Making us all slaves to the Church and the ravings of long dead tribals is hardly superior.

[Kubra]

We don't really claim to be for freedom.

Making us all slaves to the Church and the ravings of long dead tribals is hardly superior.

Whoa there, no need for that tone, we don't need mods up in here

[Communist Xomaniax]

We cannot have our faith without our Church, so, no, you are not allowing us to practice our faith.

Christianity will still exist. The bible will still exist. Excuse me if I don't cry about your specific church not existing in its current form.

Moreover, we weren't "standard-bearers" for reaction even under the Soviet Union, when we were persecuted greatly for our beliefs.

And yet it was the Church that openly and enthusiastically carried the torch for Spanish fascists. The Orthodox Church likewise has, ever since the Soviets took the boot off, increased its wealth and power, and have used that power to impose upon society a decidedly reactionary vision.

And what "special privileges"? Free Association?

No taxation, for starters. The kowtowing of the state to its interests, for another.

[Communist Xomaniax]

Making us all slaves to the Church and the ravings of long dead tribals is hardly superior.

Whoa there, no need for that tone, we don't need mods up in here

I haven't said anything objectionable. UMN wishes to subordinate society to the Church, whose official doctrine was formulated by tribal jews two thousand years ago. I made no judgements thereof, christianity is no worse than any other superstition.

[United Marxist Nations]

We cannot have our faith without our Church, so, no, you are not allowing us to practice our faith.

Christianity will still exist. The bible will still exist. Excuse me if I don't cry about your specific church not existing in its current form.

Moreover, we weren't "standard-bearers" for reaction even under the Soviet Union, when we were persecuted greatly for our beliefs.

And yet it was the Church that openly and enthusiastically carried the torch for Spanish fascists. The Orthodox Church likewise has, ever since the Soviets took the boot off, increased its wealth and power, and have used that power to impose upon society a decidedly reactionary vision.

And what "special privileges"? Free Association?

No taxation, for starters. The kowtowing of the state to its interests, for another.

Christianity cannot exist without the Church. You would destroy historical Christianity.

The Russians aren't even particularly religious, they just still agree with Soviet views on personal morality.

We can survive with taxes and we have survived persecution.

What I want to know, is how you think you can murder priests and destroy our churches while still saying you favor freedom.

Even North Fucking Korea allows the Church to operate.