Left-Wing Discussion Thread II: Behind 700,000 Bunkers

[East Catalina]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

Apathy.

[Conscentia]

Apathy.

[Pandeeria]

Eh, I'm honestly not sure if Communism is inevitable. I do agree with Marx's idea (or was it Engels?) that society would naturally move through stages of development (hunter-gatherer -> ancient farm/slave societies -> Feudalism -> Capitalism -> Communism)but surely the ruling class of whatever stage of development can try to prevent things from moving onward? I mean, they historically did try. However unlike the past, the ruling class of today has mass media and a militarized police force and tanks and fully automatic weapons and drones that can bomb you to hell before you even knew what hit you and they ships and planes and helicopters. They now have the capacity to spy on you unlike any other ruling class from any previous epoch.

Thing's don't seem to be looking good.

That's because reform is a joke, and the system will inevitably push away ideas they don't agree with, if they see it harming the structure of the state as it is.
And yeah, that is the reason Guerilla warfare is a must in modern times - we need to keep up and avoid direct action against a well-armed state.

This isn't the 1960's anymore. I'm not sure if Guerilla warfare will work, especially on the superpower's home turf. Furthermore Guerilla Warfare at it's base is defensive. The idea of hit and run attacks, of harassing enemy convoys and moving units, all it does it make occupation harder. However, it isn't going to lead to the over throw of the state. It's good for grinding down an advanced, foreign, invading force but when you're waging it back at home, you're just going to go get crushed.

[East Catalina]

Thanks.

That's because reform is a joke, and the system will inevitably push away ideas they don't agree with, if they see it harming the structure of the state as it is.
And yeah, that is the reason Guerilla warfare is a must in modern times - we need to keep up and avoid direct action against a well-armed state.

This isn't the 1960's anymore. I'm not sure if Guerilla warfare will work, especially on the superpower's home turf. Furthermore Guerilla Warfare at it's base is defensive. The idea of hit and run attacks, of harassing enemy convoys and moving units, all it does it make occupation harder. However, it isn't going to lead to the over throw of the state. It's good for grinding down an advanced, foreign, invading force but when you're waging it back at home, you're just going to go get crushed.

Try telling that to the rebels in the Phillippines and India. Moros, NPA-NDF-CPP, and the Naxalites did pretty well, didn't they? Though iirc those rebellions were and are localized. They ultimately did fail because the government outmaneuvered them in the total battlefield.
As for stirring up guerrilla uprising in the US, you'd have to have gotten civilization to the level of Nearly Headless Nick before that wouldn't end like a slightly more concerning version of the Malheur siege.

[Pandeeria]

This isn't the 1960's anymore. I'm not sure if Guerilla warfare will work, especially on the superpower's home turf. Furthermore Guerilla Warfare at it's base is defensive. The idea of hit and run attacks, of harassing enemy convoys and moving units, all it does it make occupation harder. However, it isn't going to lead to the over throw of the state. It's good for grinding down an advanced, foreign, invading force but when you're waging it back at home, you're just going to go get crushed.

Try telling that to the rebels in the Phillippines and India. Moros, NPA-NDF-CPP, and the Naxalites did pretty well, didn't they? Though iirc those rebellions were and are localized. They ultimately did fail because the government outmaneuvered them in the total battlefield.
As for stirring up guerrilla uprising in the US, you'd have to have gotten civilization to the level of Nearly Headless Nick before that wouldn't end like a slightly more concerning version of the Malheur siege.

Wow, I learned today that the Malheur siege was crushed on my birthday.

The Philippines and India aren't as advanced as the US. The US can much more easily squash a guerilla movement.

[East Catalina]

Try telling that to the rebels in the Phillippines and India. Moros, NPA-NDF-CPP, and the Naxalites did pretty well, didn't they? Though iirc those rebellions were and are localized. They ultimately did fail because the government outmaneuvered them in the total battlefield.
As for stirring up guerrilla uprising in the US, you'd have to have gotten civilization to the level of Nearly Headless Nick before that wouldn't end like a slightly more concerning version of the Malheur siege.

Wow, I learned today that the Malheur siege was crushed on my birthday.

The Philippines and India aren't as advanced as the US. The US can much more easily squash a guerilla movement.

That it can. We'd have to do something really stupid like what the DMZ comic series entails in order to have anything like the setting of the comic itself.
It's about the Midwest and Plains rebelling against the government because it launched one war too many in Africa and I can't remember if the "Free States" are communist but I doubt it.

[Pandeeria]

Wow, I learned today that the Malheur siege was crushed on my birthday.

The Philippines and India aren't as advanced as the US. The US can much more easily squash a guerilla movement.

That it can. We'd have to do something really stupid like what the DMZ comic series entails in order to have anything like the setting of the comic itself.
It's about the Midwest and Plains rebelling against the government because it launched one war too many in Africa and I can't remember if the "Free States" are communist but I doubt it.

Oh well, that's just a comic series. Maybe I could somehow make use of myself in a worker's revolt in a different part of the world or something within my life time. Maybe.

[United Marxist Nations]

That it can. We'd have to do something really stupid like what the DMZ comic series entails in order to have anything like the setting of the comic itself.
It's about the Midwest and Plains rebelling against the government because it launched one war too many in Africa and I can't remember if the "Free States" are communist but I doubt it.

Oh well, that's just a comic series. Maybe I could somehow make use of myself in a worker's revolt in a different part of the world or something within my life time. Maybe.

Volunteer brigades, eh?

If I ever manage to move to Russia, I may join something like the Cossack patrols, but most of you guys probably would disapprove of them politically. Then again, I may have to join the Russian Army to get citizenship.

[Pandeeria]

Oh well, that's just a comic series. Maybe I could somehow make use of myself in a worker's revolt in a different part of the world or something within my life time. Maybe.

Volunteer brigades, eh?

Are those actually things anymore?

[Mattopilos]

Oh well, that's just a comic series. Maybe I could somehow make use of myself in a worker's revolt in a different part of the world or something within my life time. Maybe.

Volunteer brigades, eh?

If I ever manage to move to Russia, I may join something like the Cossack patrols, but most of you guys probably would disapprove of them politically. Then again, I may have to join the Russian Army to get citizenship.

What are these 'Cossack patrols' you speak of? Sounds Russian af.

[United Marxist Nations]

Volunteer brigades, eh?

If I ever manage to move to Russia, I may join something like the Cossack patrols, but most of you guys probably would disapprove of them politically. Then again, I may have to join the Russian Army to get citizenship.

What are these 'Cossack patrols' you speak of? Sounds Russian af.

Some parts of Southern Russia that have an undermanned police force pay the Cossack Hosts to patrol the streets at night to prevent crime.

[East Catalina]

Volunteer brigades, eh?

Are those actually things anymore?

ISIS has them, but they're called foreign terrorists or something.

Volunteer brigades, eh?

If I ever manage to move to Russia, I may join something like the Cossack patrols, but most of you guys probably would disapprove of them politically. Then again, I may have to join the Russian Army to get citizenship.

What are these 'Cossack patrols' you speak of? Sounds Russian af.

Martial nomads who are a UU in Civ5 and a part of Russian culture. Weren't they the Tsar's shock cavalry or something at some point? I don't remember.
Anyway Putin has been reviving them lately. As a holdover of the tsardom they are only 5% less disgusting than black hundreds.

[The New Sea Territory]

No.

I do think telling other people what is in their self-interest effectively turns it into a spook no different from Randian ethical egoism or any other moralism. This line of attack is not only contrary to our (or, at least my) aims (as it reinforces hierarchical relations), but it is unlikely to convince anyone.

Ok, yeah you're right. I'll just completely shut up about Socialism and Communism, and never try to debate anyone or to criticize the current status quo. After that, that itself is an act of telling people what is better for them.

That....isn't what I said at all.

[Pandeeria]

Ok, yeah you're right. I'll just completely shut up about Socialism and Communism, and never try to debate anyone or to criticize the current status quo. After that, that itself is an act of telling people what is better for them.

That....isn't what I said at all.

That's precisely what you've said.

[Uiiop]

Ok, yeah you're right. I'll just completely shut up about Socialism and Communism, and never try to debate anyone or to criticize the current status quo. After that, that itself is an act of telling people what is better for them.

That....isn't what I said at all.

Well it's not like you suggested an alternative line of attack so Pandeeria thinks in your mind no attacks can exists.

[The New Sea Territory]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

My affirmation of life knows no bounds.

That....isn't what I said at all.

That's precisely what you've said.

What I said was that you parading around as an intellectual vanguard isn't going to convince many people that you know what's best for them, and it is counterproductive.

[The New Sea Territory]

That....isn't what I said at all.

Well it's not like you suggested an alternative line of attack so Pandeeria thinks in your mind no attacks can exists.

Immanent critique is a powerful way to take down typical liberal or conservative views and positions. Criticize liberalism or conservatism by its own standards, show how it fails at living up to its own ideas, and show how the values of liberalism or conservatism are threatened not by their opposite, but by capitalism. That's been far more successful for me in spreading socialist ideas to people I know than telling them that they do not know what is best for them.

[Pandeeria]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

My affirmation of life knows no bounds.

That's precisely what you've said.

What I said was that you parading around as an intellectual vanguard isn't going to convince many people that you know what's best for them, and it is counterproductive.

The issue with this is that debate and criticism are at their base acting as intellectual vanguards. Even if only in a petty sense. When you try to argue with someone, you're trying to replace one or multiple of their world views with your own. You are effectively saying that their world views are wrong, and that yours is correct.

[The New Sea Territory]

My affirmation of life knows no bounds.



What I said was that you parading around as an intellectual vanguard isn't going to convince many people that you know what's best for them, and it is counterproductive.

The issue with this is that debate and criticism are at their base acting as intellectual vanguards. Even if only in a petty sense. When you try to argue with someone, you're trying to replace one or multiple of their world views with your own. You are effectively saying that their world views are wrong, and that yours is correct.

Perhaps if you still hold onto an absolute truth.

Instead, for me, there are only interpretations, no truths or facts. My interpetation is pitted against others for my own benefit (and the benefit of the other). Debate and criticism makes my own conceptions of things more coherent and sufficient.

This is one reason there can never be a vanguard, and that vanguards replicate capitalist hierarchies. They create a hierarchy of interpretations, where the Party is always supported by the People, and those who disagree are 'enemies of the people'. The Party knows what is best for the people, even better than the people themselves. This is dogmatic, almost Christian thinking.

[Bogdanov Vishniac]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

By working hard and doing my bit to make it just a little bit better every day. What else can we do?

[Kilobugya]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

Remember that there has been other dark times in history, even worse than the (very bad, I admit) situation the world is now, and that we managed to get out of it and improve things nonetheless, thanks to those who never felt to depression and hopelessness, continued to struggle against all odds, and kept the light of the beacon shining, opening the path to the future. As Allende said in his last speech, under the bombs of Pinochet, "Other men will overcome this dark and bitter moment when treason seeks to prevail. Go forward knowing that, sooner rather than later, the great avenues will open again where free men will walk to build a better society."

[Yoshida (Ancient)]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

Religion.

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

The knowledge that communism is inevitable.

and memes

But we have no reason to believe it is though. Capitalism may not be immortal, but there are diverse alternatives to Communism that could happen.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

I'm not a communist, but I have to say I worship capitalism everyday.

[Bakery Hill]

So, Communists of LWDT, how are you managing to cope today with our absolutely hopeless and depressing situation?

Grog, banter, books.

[Bakery Hill]

Italian referendum defeat. Good or bad?