Left-Wing Discussion Thread II: Behind 700,000 Bunkers

[Collatis]

The political compass more measures attitude than ideology to be honest. From day to day your results can change based on how strongly you feel about issues. So someone who is center-left could easily get something as extreme as -10, -10 if they feel particularly strongly about it.

Yes exactly. Although I really am libertarian on social issues and quite left-wing and socialist on economic issues. So -10, -10 comes pretty close to my views although sometimes on that test my scores might be closer to the center, sometimes as close as -5, -5 but never closer than that. I am not by any means an anarcho-anything, nor do I want to completely eliminate all private enterprise, I just happen to really dislike big corporations, enthusiastically support democratic socialism, and also be a strong supporter of individual liberty in people's personal lives.

Just from reading through your explanation of your views earlier, I can guess that we probably agree on almost every issue, and yet I get around -5, -5 on the political compass.

[Thermodolia]

It is and I'm not a comrade.

You're just asking for libertarian forced labour aren't you?

No not at all. I'm a proud supporter of union labor.

[Conscentia]

Hope we can see more soc dems around on this version of the thread.

I hope so too. I'm guessing that some social democrats/social liberals/etc. may have been turned off by the apparent domination of the previous thread by those on the far-left. So hopefully we'll see more diversity this time around.

If you can think of anything I can add to the OP to help make the thread more broadly left-wing, I would like to read your suggestions.

[Dobbs]

I run a youtube named Schnitz Productions, you may or may not of heard of it. I want to do a new video series that is both comedic, but informative and good at dismantling arguments against the left.
I wanted to go after PragerU first, but I feel that's an easy target. Anyone have any suggestions for something I can do a video on?

Uhm, I would suggest going after Austrian economics and explaining that the real reason behind the 2008 economic crash was unregulated free-market capitalism run amok, exactly the same as in the 1929 stock market crash that caused the Great Depression, in one of your videos. Capitalism really does fail quite spectacularly on a fairly regular basis every few decades and the only thing that ends up saving it always ends up being some form of socialism, although the corporate welfare form of corporate socialism that was used after the 2008 crash is one of the worst possible variants of socialism and what led to it having a "jobless recovery" where income inequality skyrocketed and the stock market went way up but wages remained stagnant.

Or you know, go after anti-union people who say labor unions are bad. Labor unions are just about the best thing ever and one of the main reasons the standard of living is declining now in the United States is that labor union membership has been falling for decades so less and less people have jobs with good union benefits. Labor unions are what created the middle class. Without them, capitalism ends up producing just the rich and poor with no middle class in between.

[Bakery Hill]

I hope so too. I'm guessing that some social democrats/social liberals/etc. may have been turned off by the apparent domination of the previous thread by those on the far-left. So hopefully we'll see more diversity this time around.

I can understand that, I'd love this to be a more open and critical space.

United Provinces of Atlantica reminds me every day

It's okay, just publicly repudiate Ebert and we can find you a posting in a provincial corn collective.

[Bakery Hill]

You're just asking for libertarian forced labour aren't you?

No not at all. I'm a proud supporter of union labor.

Haha no sorry that was perhaps too obscure a joke.

[Pandeeria]

I agree with many of Marx's theories, as well as his strong emphasis on materialism, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to call myself Marxist.

[Bakery Hill]

Hope we can see more soc dems around on this version of the thread.

Even if you did kill Rosa.

The only bad things with that was the extrajudicial killing and tossing her body into the canal.

The rule of law should be maintained as much as possible and desecration is not acceptable.

Ebert and the mainstream SPD spent decades harping on about socialism, and when they were finally looking at it, they ran behind the Freikorps' skirts. That constant reliance on far right paramilitaries didn't make for a stable republic.

[United Marxist Nations]

I agree with many of Marx's theories, as well as his strong emphasis on materialism, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to call myself Marxist.

You're the only one holding you back.

[Pandeeria]

I agree with many of Marx's theories, as well as his strong emphasis on materialism, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as to call myself Marxist.

You're the only one holding you back.

I assume all of Engels ideas are just considered under the umbrella term "Marxism", right? If so, then yeah, I'd probably call myself Marxist.

[Bakery Hill]

You're the only one holding you back.

I assume all of Engels ideas are just considered under the umbrella term "Marxism", right? If so, then yeah, I'd probably call myself Marxist.

They were the Brangelina of their time.

[Thermodolia]

No not at all. I'm a proud supporter of union labor.

Haha no sorry that was perhaps too obscure a joke.

I guess so

[Pandeeria]

I'm a social democrat through and through. In the United States, I would describe myself as a progressive. In the United Kingdom, I would describe myself as soft left. I'm part of the moderate left on both economic and social issues, and am an internationalist when it comes to foreign policy. Here is my most recent political compass score.

Hope we can see more soc dems around on this version of the thread

pls no

[United Marxist Nations]

Okay, so quick question: Did Propaganda by the Deed ever accomplish anything, or did it just make Anarchists look like dicks for assassinating random people?

[Pandeeria]

Okay, so quick question: Did Propaganda by the Deed ever accomplish anything, or did it just make Anarchists look like dicks for assassinating random people?

It kinda seems just like Illegalism on steroids. And since I don't think Illegalism works, I'll go with the later.

[Bakery Hill]

Hope we can see more soc dems around on this version of the thread

pls no

They're wayward comrades, let's bring them back into the fold.

[Bakery Hill]

Okay, so quick question: Did Propaganda by the Deed ever accomplish anything, or did it just make Anarchists look like dicks for assassinating random people?

Make Monarchs Scared Again.

[Dobbs]

Just from reading through your explanation of your views earlier, I can guess that we probably agree on almost every issue, and yet I get around -5, -5 on the political compass.

Yeah you must be leaving out the "Strongly" before "Agree" or "Disagree", or something like that... I dunno. You gotta choose the "Strongly" options on every single question to get an extreme score that is very far away from the center in any direction on the political compass quiz. Which isn't a problem for me, I am a very opinionated person with strong opinions although they can change when I am presented with new information that shows my preconceived notions were wrong or that gives me new ideas I had not thought about before. OK if I were being totally honest on that quiz I guess I would not use "strongly" on every single answer since I don't actually have strong views on every single one of those questions. I just have a strong view of what numbers I want in the end result and retake the test until I get the score I want I guess. Heh OK I admitted it.

But that is just the way I am, back in school I would never settle for anything less than a perfect 100 score, or if there was extra credit, I would need to get all of that too. I don't settle for anything less than a perfect score, a bit of a perfectionist I guess. It is really really really hard for me to take a quiz like that and NOT think that there are right and wrong answers... I just tend to think of things as having correct and incorrect answers, that is part of how people like me on the autistic spectrum tend to think (yes it is Asperger Syndrome, a mild form of autism, a lot of people on NationStates have it, in my case it was professionally diagnosed by a psychologist when I was 16 years old many years ago). But yeah I guess I won't settle for anything less than a perfect -10, -10 on that test, especially since all the good guys are in the lower left quadrant and since the upper right quadrant is, ya know, the most evil, at least if you get far away from the center in the upper right... especially up all the way at the top, definitely don't wanna be there, that's fascism or some other form of totalitarianism up there, the worst possible ideology.

[United Marxist Nations]

Okay, so quick question: Did Propaganda by the Deed ever accomplish anything, or did it just make Anarchists look like dicks for assassinating random people?

Make Monarchs Scared Again.

Killing monarchs, I can understand, ideologically speaking, but, assassinating the wife of one seems like it was counterproductive. If anything, it probably stirred up sympathy for an already fairly popular monarch.

[Pandeeria]

pls no

They're wayward comrades, let's bring them back into the fold.

Perhaps Trotsky's idea of stressing emphasis on an anti-fascist coalition with Socialist undertones rather than a hardline Communist Party for Revolution would be better. If so, then let's get the Soc Dems back in the fold, radicalize them, and make them comrades.

[Socialist Nordia]

So, considering the west is experiencing I rise of right-wing populism(Trump, Brexit, etc), what do people here think will become of left wing politics in the future? Is this a sign of a lasting shift rightwards, or will it result in an even stronger leftward shift as a reaction?

[Bakery Hill]

Make Monarchs Scared Again.

Killing monarchs, I can understand, ideologically speaking, but, assassinating the wife of one seems like it was counterproductive. If anything, it probably stirred up sympathy for an already fairly popular monarch.

I agree yeah. In all seriousness terrorism is bad.

[Bakery Hill]

So, considering the west is experiencing I rise of right-wing populism(Trump, Brexit, etc), what do people here think will become of left wing politics in the future? Is this a sign of a lasting shift rightwards, or will it result in an even stronger leftward shift as a reaction?

If we use the right tactics and rhetoric, we'll be apples. Otherwise it's probably already too late.

[Bakery Hill]

They're wayward comrades, let's bring them back into the fold.

Perhaps Trotsky's idea of stressing emphasis on an anti-fascist coalition with Socialist undertones rather than a hardline Communist Party for Revolution would be better. If so, then let's get the Soc Dems back in the fold, radicalize them, and make them comrades.

I'm a fan of this. But as some bloke once said to me, unity with our class is paramount, not unity with a nebulous "left".

[Pandeeria]

So, considering the west is experiencing I rise of right-wing populism(Trump, Brexit, etc), what do people here think will become of left wing politics in the future? Is this a sign of a lasting shift rightwards, or will it result in an even stronger leftward shift as a reaction?

I think if it continues, as history shows us, this rise in nationalism and right-wing populism is but only a first link in the chain that will lead us to Fascism. Communism doesn't thrive well under Fascism.

Though on the contrary, many make the argument that fascism truly is capitalism in decay, the contradictions becoming so immense and oppressive that a Socialist worker's revolt is inevitable.