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Left-Wing Discussion Thread II: Behind 700,000 Bunkers

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Preferred economic system?

Welfare Capitalism
93
23%
Market Socialism
62
15%
Mutualism
10
2%
Syndicalism
40
10%
Communalism
13
3%
State Planning
36
9%
Decentralised Planning
27
7%
Higher Phase Communism
38
9%
Left-wing Market Anarchism
15
4%
Other
67
17%
 
Total votes : 401

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Victoriala II
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Postby Victoriala II » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:17 pm


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United Muscovite Nations
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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:24 pm

Victoriala II wrote:

NOTHING BUT FILIAL RESPEK FOR MY CHAIRMAN

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MERIZoC
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby MERIZoC » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:05 pm

Victoriala II wrote:

NOTHING BUT FILIAL RESPEK FOR MY CHAIRMAN

lol 10/10 meme
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:51 pm

Pilarcraft wrote:random question from someone who needs help.
Is democratic Confederalism left-wing? and where can I find books and/or other sources to study it from?

It's left wing if you want to abolish private property with it. Otherwise it is actually far right.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:34 am

Pilarcraft wrote:random question from someone who needs help.
Is democratic Confederalism left-wing? and where can I find books and/or other sources to study it from?

Theoretically probably look at writings by Ocalan.
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Alsheb
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Postby Alsheb » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:50 am

Not entirely sure about the poll, it seems a bit vague at times. I have ticked "Higher Phase Communism", but obviously that cannot be simply achieved overnight.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:54 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Pilarcraft wrote:random question from someone who needs help.
Is democratic Confederalism left-wing? and where can I find books and/or other sources to study it from?

It's left wing if you want to abolish private property with it. Otherwise it is actually far right.

Although even lack of private property would be right wing if it's reflective of local or indigenous practice as opposed to a national or global program. I would for instance consider the Zapatista movement to be functually right wing.
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:57 am

Bakery Hill wrote:
Pilarcraft wrote:random question from someone who needs help.
Is democratic Confederalism left-wing? and where can I find books and/or other sources to study it from?

Theoretically probably look at writings by Ocalan.

Or any localist works, really.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:12 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:Theoretically probably look at writings by Ocalan.

Or any localist works, really.

The local focus is what attracts me. I mean to read more on him and Bookchin.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:13 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It's left wing if you want to abolish private property with it. Otherwise it is actually far right.

Although even lack of private property would be right wing if it's reflective of local or indigenous practice as opposed to a national or global program. I would for instance consider the Zapatista movement to be functually right wing.

That's an interesting take. They do consider themselves left however.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:25 am

Bakery Hill wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Although even lack of private property would be right wing if it's reflective of local or indigenous practice as opposed to a national or global program. I would for instance consider the Zapatista movement to be functually right wing.

That's an interesting take. They do consider themselves left however.

And by a contempory axis, they are. But, ironically, by a classical axis they would be right wing and fascism would be left wing.
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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:27 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:That's an interesting take. They do consider themselves left however.

And by a contempory axis, they are. But, ironically, by a classical axis they would be right wing and fascism would be left wing.

That is true. The times they have a-changed.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:39 am

Bakery Hill wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:And by a contempory axis, they are. But, ironically, by a classical axis they would be right wing and fascism would be left wing.

That is true. The times they have a-changed.


And will again. If the left seriously steps up to the plate against globalism, it will be a de facto rebirth of the classical right. But if this job is left entirely to the right, we might see a rebirth of racial nationalism.
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Alsheb
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Postby Alsheb » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:43 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:That is true. The times they have a-changed.


And will again. If the left seriously steps up to the plate against globalism, it will be a de facto rebirth of the classical right. But if this job is left entirely to the right, we might see a rebirth of racial nationalism.


What sort of classical right do you mean by that? Surely not the 18th-century anti-liberal and semi-feudal movements that happened to be localist?
Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist and Zaydi Muslim Pan-Islamist
About Alsheb: An Islamic people's republic, based upon the principles of Marxism-Leninism and Zaydi Islam
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality
Pro: Communism, Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Axis of Resistance, Syrian Arab Republic, Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, Novorossiya, LGBTQ acceptance, feminism, internationalism, socialist patriotism.
Anti: Capitalism, imperialism, racism, fascism, zionism, liberalism, NATO, EU, Wahhabism, revisionism, trotskyism.
Freedom is nothing but a vain phantom when one class of men can starve another with impunity. Equality is nothing but a vain phantom when the rich, through monopoly, exercise the right of life or death over their like.
Jacques Roux

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Republican Corentia
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Postby Republican Corentia » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:52 am

Anyone in this thread organize IRL?

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Bakery Hill
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Postby Bakery Hill » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:55 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:That is true. The times they have a-changed.


And will again. If the left seriously steps up to the plate against globalism, it will be a de facto rebirth of the classical right. But if this job is left entirely to the right, we might see a rebirth of racial nationalism.

This is true. At this stage it could go either way. Movements in Europe give me hope however.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:07 am

Alsheb wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:
And will again. If the left seriously steps up to the plate against globalism, it will be a de facto rebirth of the classical right. But if this job is left entirely to the right, we might see a rebirth of racial nationalism.


What sort of classical right do you mean by that? Surely not the 18th-century anti-liberal and semi-feudal movements that happened to be localist?

Indeed I do. Localism was not happenstance here, but a driving ideology. Burke fought tooth and nail against the East India Company for the sake of local Indian culture and adminstration, and the insanely right wing de Maistre was insanely localist, arguing that Christians had no business interfering with human sacrifice by local tradition. Subsidiarity even became the official stance of the Catholic Church.
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alsheb
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Postby Alsheb » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:12 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Alsheb wrote:
What sort of classical right do you mean by that? Surely not the 18th-century anti-liberal and semi-feudal movements that happened to be localist?

Indeed I do. Localism was not happenstance here, but a driving ideology. Burke fought tooth and nail against the East India Company for the sake of local Indian culture and adminstration, and the insanely right wing de Maistre was insanely localist, arguing that Christians had no business interfering with human sacrifice by local tradition. Subsidiarity even became the official stance of the Catholic Church.


But you can't call any of those movements in any way comparable to a modern rebirth of the left, even if the left will organise according to a localist programme.
Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist and Zaydi Muslim Pan-Islamist
About Alsheb: An Islamic people's republic, based upon the principles of Marxism-Leninism and Zaydi Islam
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality
Pro: Communism, Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Axis of Resistance, Syrian Arab Republic, Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, Novorossiya, LGBTQ acceptance, feminism, internationalism, socialist patriotism.
Anti: Capitalism, imperialism, racism, fascism, zionism, liberalism, NATO, EU, Wahhabism, revisionism, trotskyism.
Freedom is nothing but a vain phantom when one class of men can starve another with impunity. Equality is nothing but a vain phantom when the rich, through monopoly, exercise the right of life or death over their like.
Jacques Roux

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Alsheb
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Postby Alsheb » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:13 pm

Republican Corentia wrote:Anyone in this thread organize IRL?

Yup, member of the Workers' Party of Belgium here.
Anti-Revisionist Marxist-Leninist and Zaydi Muslim Pan-Islamist
About Alsheb: An Islamic people's republic, based upon the principles of Marxism-Leninism and Zaydi Islam
Member of the Committee for Proletarian Morality
Pro: Communism, Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Axis of Resistance, Syrian Arab Republic, Ansarullah, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, Novorossiya, LGBTQ acceptance, feminism, internationalism, socialist patriotism.
Anti: Capitalism, imperialism, racism, fascism, zionism, liberalism, NATO, EU, Wahhabism, revisionism, trotskyism.
Freedom is nothing but a vain phantom when one class of men can starve another with impunity. Equality is nothing but a vain phantom when the rich, through monopoly, exercise the right of life or death over their like.
Jacques Roux

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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:17 pm

Alsheb wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Indeed I do. Localism was not happenstance here, but a driving ideology. Burke fought tooth and nail against the East India Company for the sake of local Indian culture and adminstration, and the insanely right wing de Maistre was insanely localist, arguing that Christians had no business interfering with human sacrifice by local tradition. Subsidiarity even became the official stance of the Catholic Church.


But you can't call any of those movements in any way comparable to a modern rebirth of the left, even if the left will organise according to a localist programme.

I said a modern rebirth of the classical right. Not the left. If the left takes up with zeal the cause of localism, they will be a de facto rebirth of the classical right, regardless of whatever label they use.
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Jelmatt
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Postby Jelmatt » Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:55 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Bakery Hill wrote:That is true. The times they have a-changed.


And will again. If the left seriously steps up to the plate against globalism, it will be a de facto rebirth of the classical right. But if this job is left entirely to the right, we might see a rebirth of racial nationalism.


I sincerely doubt an antiglobalist left would be anything like the classical right outside of localism. Most antiglobalist movements on the left are better described as alter-globalist and still have a commitment to some level of internationalism, and are definitely far more skeptical of traditional authority than the classical right was. We certainly wouldn't be King-and-God types.
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Aillyria wrote:That's Capitalism's natural tendency, tbh.


The market is the people Aillyria. You should know this. And if the people want hentai, who are we to question?

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Kubra
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Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:07 pm

Republican Corentia wrote:Anyone in this thread organize IRL?
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:13 pm

Jelmatt wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:
And will again. If the left seriously steps up to the plate against globalism, it will be a de facto rebirth of the classical right. But if this job is left entirely to the right, we might see a rebirth of racial nationalism.


I sincerely doubt an antiglobalist left would be anything like the classical right outside of localism. Most antiglobalist movements on the left are better described as alter-globalist and still have a commitment to some level of internationalism, and are definitely far more skeptical of traditional authority than the classical right was. We certainly wouldn't be King-and-God types.


The classical right is more concerned with sickness than symptom. Communal and familial ties are seen as the basis of any society that could support that. Once that is established, organic order (which is diverse, it's not monolithic) naturally emerges.
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The Liberated Territories
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Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:28 pm

-Jochistan- wrote:I'd say my preffered economic system is communism or syndicalism. I'm not entirely sure which would be better to build a revolution on.

The Liberated Territories wrote:If the right likes anime, does the left like furries?

It's the internet, everybody likes anime.

Catgirls and Catboys don't count. :^)


whenever the left and catgirls come up, I can't help but think of the r/socialism "incident"
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Northern Davincia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:30 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:
-Jochistan- wrote:I'd say my preffered economic system is communism or syndicalism. I'm not entirely sure which would be better to build a revolution on.


It's the internet, everybody likes anime.

Catgirls and Catboys don't count. :^)


whenever the left and catgirls come up, I can't help but think of the r/socialism "incident"

The left is its own worst enemy. Whether or not this is a good thing remains open to interpretation.
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Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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