Left-Wing Discussion Thread II: Behind 700,000 Bunkers

[The Eternal Aulus]

Based. Combine it with Jamaat Sufism and you get some nice lulz. Anarcho-Sufism when.

Back in his socialist days, Mussolini was good friends with an anarcho-Sufist woman. But I suspect she had an Orientalist or modern liberal concept of it because she committed quite a number of things against the religion (such as crossdressing and advocating free love iirc).

Lots of Muslim converts I know have the same idea. They get thrown into a whole different culture upon conversion.

[The Parkus Empire]

Hmm....perhaps I should clarify. I don't hate dialectic materialism nor do I entirely disagree with it. What I dislike is the athiesm of marxism, that's more semantically accurate to describe my distaste for Marx.

If anything, its just really pro-secularism. Which is a great thing.

Marx saw animosity toward religion as the necessarily preliminary of socialist thought. Because he saw socialism as rooted firmly and completely in a materialist framework. There is no room for religion in Marx's view, he takes it for granted that it will be abolished, and only doesn't talk about it much because he sees his work as a step beyond rather than before that.

[Aillyria]

Back in his socialist days, Mussolini was good friends with an anarcho-Sufist woman. But I suspect she had an Orientalist or modern liberal concept of it because she committed quite a number of things against the religion (such as crossdressing and advocating free love iirc).

Lots of Muslim converts I know have the same idea. They get thrown into a whole different culture upon conversion.

As a convert myself, I can tell you Islam takes some getting used to. I still drink....alot, but I no longer eat pork at least.

[The Parkus Empire]

Lots of Muslim converts I know have the same idea. They get thrown into a whole different culture upon conversion.

As a convert myself, I can tell you Islam takes some getting used to. I still drink....alot, but I no longer eat pork at least.

You're extremely disrespectful toward your proclaimed faith if you still drink.

[Aillyria]

As a convert myself, I can tell you Islam takes some getting used to. I still drink....alot, but I no longer eat pork at least.

You're extremely disrespectful toward your proclaimed faith if you still drink.

Meh, disrespect my ass. I never claimed to be an orthodox muslim, because I'm not...at all. Hell, I also view Christ as the Son of God. Plus, I'm a SUFI that's not exactly mainstream Islam.

[The Parkus Empire]

You're extremely disrespectful toward your proclaimed faith if you still drink.

Meh, disrespect my ass. I never claimed to be an orthodox muslim, because I'm not...at all. Hell, I also view Christ as the Son of God. Plus, I'm a SUFI that's not exactly mainstream Islam.

Do you actually attend Muslim worship?

[Aillyria]

Meh, disrespect my ass. I never claimed to be an orthodox muslim, because I'm not...at all. Hell, I also view Christ as the Son of God. Plus, I'm a SUFI that's not exactly mainstream Islam.

Do you actually attend Muslim worship?

Emphatically, no. And I don't plan to, ever. I hate institutional religious practices and "group worship". Ones relationship with God is personal.

[Socialist Czechia]

if the philosophy is the question and not the actual rituals and ceremonies in temples are necessary, then i guess i am Zoroastrian myself.
dualism makes sense - well, as much as religion can ever 'make sense'.

"Each man and woman, for his or her self, select either of the two […] The worst mind shall be for the wrongful, and the best mind shall be for the righteous." – Yasna 30, 17 Gatha Hymns

[The Parkus Empire]

Do you actually attend Muslim worship?

Emphatically, no. And I don't plan to, ever. I hate institutional religious practices and "group worship". Ones relationship with God is personal.

So you don't practice Islam. And are purely a nominal Muslim.

[The Parkus Empire]

if the philosophy is the question and not the actual rituals and ceremonies in temples are necessary, then i guess i am Zoroastrian myself.
dualism makes sense - well, as much as religion can ever 'make sense'.

"Each man and woman, for his or her self, select either of the two […] The worst mind shall be for the wrongful, and the best mind shall be for the righteous." – Yasna 30, 17 Gatha Hymns

Divorce of a religion's rituals and philosophy is impossible in any pre-Protestant religion.

[Socialist Czechia]

if the philosophy is the question and not the actual rituals and ceremonies in temples are necessary, then i guess i am Zoroastrian myself.
dualism makes sense - well, as much as religion can ever 'make sense'.

"Each man and woman, for his or her self, select either of the two […] The worst mind shall be for the wrongful, and the best mind shall be for the righteous." – Yasna 30, 17 Gatha Hymns

Divorce of a religion's rituals and philosophy is impossible in any pre-Protestant religion.

Yes, it is possible. Especially when Ahura Mazda is not some oldschool vengeful, jelly god who will kill me for tiniest of reasons or in his case, not many verses sung over holy fire.

[The Parkus Empire]

Divorce of a religion's rituals and philosophy is impossible in any pre-Protestant religion.

Yes, it is possible. Especially when Ahura Mazda is not some oldschool vengeful, jelly god who will kill me for tiniest of reasons or in his case, not many verses sung over holy fire.

No, it's not. All you do is bastardize an ancient religion. Observance of ritual is fundamental to the philosophies of all pre Reformation religions.

[War Gears]

if the philosophy is the question and not the actual rituals and ceremonies in temples are necessary, then i guess i am Zoroastrian myself.
dualism makes sense - well, as much as religion can ever 'make sense'.

"Each man and woman, for his or her self, select either of the two […] The worst mind shall be for the wrongful, and the best mind shall be for the righteous." – Yasna 30, 17 Gatha Hymns

Divorce of a religion's rituals and philosophy is impossible in any pre-Protestant religion.

Lots of Shintoists would disagree with you.

[The Parkus Empire]

Divorce of a religion's rituals and philosophy is impossible in any pre-Protestant religion.

Lots of Shintoists would disagree with you.

Prior to the philosophy spawned by the Reformation? No.

[Ramune and Chocolate]

Emphatically, no. And I don't plan to, ever. I hate institutional religious practices and "group worship". Ones relationship with God is personal.

So you don't practice Islam. And are purely a nominal Muslim.

In all fairness, antinomianism is not unknown among Sufi Muslims of the past and the present. The Bektashis composed mystical poems glorifying wine, al-Hallaj proclaimed "I am the Truth", a certain ascetic boasted that he would erect a tent in hell, etc etc. Nevertheless, they rely on the notion of mystical monotheism, so claiming Christ as a son of God is a bit damning in its own way, and doesn't even qualify as a shath.

[Aillyria]

Emphatically, no. And I don't plan to, ever. I hate institutional religious practices and "group worship". Ones relationship with God is personal.

So you don't practice Islam. And are purely a nominal Muslim.

Oh, so my relationship with God is dependent on me attending a communal prayer ran by a retarded imam who doesn't know God any better than I do? The Quran nor the Bible requires, or even prefers a follower to attend group prayers. God doesn't need clergy to reach his flock.

[Socialist Czechia]

Even Lenin was fine if worker prayed to whatever he wanted, personally and alone: especially, as long as he didn't listened to some bullshit in temple, in herd of sheeps.
Personal belief and right of person to belief, is entirely different from organized corruption and subversion of the state by the church.

Too bad many left-wingers don't see the difference. Just because church desperately needs to be purged, doesn't mean Bible should be banned

[Thermodolia]

Thoughts on Tankies, like these?

„It is impossible to mix Islam with Marxism which is a materialistic ideology but I think that mixing Shariah law with some elements of planned economy would be a great system for the whole world civilisation, especially for the Middle East”

edit: added comma

Ill let a Dalek explain

[Grenartia]

If anything, its just really pro-secularism. Which is a great thing.

Marx saw animosity toward religion as the necessarily preliminary of socialist thought. Because he saw socialism as rooted firmly and completely in a materialist framework. There is no room for religion in Marx's view, he takes it for granted that it will be abolished, and only doesn't talk about it much because he sees his work as a step beyond rather than before that.

Well, its a good thing I'm not one of those types that dogmatically holds everything Marx said as correct.

[Trotskylvania]

So you don't practice Islam. And are purely a nominal Muslim.

Oh, so my relationship with God is dependent on me attending a communal prayer ran by a retarded imam who doesn't know God any better than I do? The Quran nor the Bible requires, or even prefers a follower to attend group prayers. God doesn't need clergy to reach his flock.

This is pretty much a Supermarket of Ideology approach to religion.

I suppose it works as a last ditch defense against atheism, but religious doctrine is not something you can just pick and choose which parts to believe in. They only ever made any self-consistent sense as part of the coherent whole of the religious doctrine. And part of those doctrines was always about the community of believers, the institutions of faith, and the doctrines of observance of that faith.

Personalism with regards to god is really a product of the protestant reformation, modernity, and the resulting demystification of the world. To me, it seems more like belief for its own sake. You've left the community of believers and cast off the doctrine of observance, but there's still a hole you need to fill in you life, so you fill it with whatever resonates with you at the moment.

I suppose it might just be sympathy for the devil, but as an atheist I'm with the Evil Vicar on this one.

[Grenartia]

Religiously, I'm a Unitarian Universalist that follows Christian beliefs.

[Aillyria]

Oh, so my relationship with God is dependent on me attending a communal prayer ran by a retarded imam who doesn't know God any better than I do? The Quran nor the Bible requires, or even prefers a follower to attend group prayers. God doesn't need clergy to reach his flock.

This is pretty much a Supermarket of Ideology approach to religion.

I suppose it works as a last ditch defense against atheism, but religious doctrine is not something you can just pick and choose which parts to believe in. They only ever made any self-consistent sense as part of the coherent whole of the religious doctrine. And part of those doctrines was always about the community of believers, the institutions of faith, and the doctrines of observance of that faith.

Personalism with regards to god is really a product of the protestant reformation, modernity, and the resulting demystification of the world. To me, it seems more like belief for its own sake. You've left the community of believers and cast off the doctrine of observance, but there's still a hole you need to fill in you life, so you fill it with whatever resonates with you at the moment.

I suppose it might just be sympathy for the devil, but as an atheist I'm with the Evil Vicar on this one.

Islam doesn't mandate group prayer. What are you getting at?

[War Gears]

Lots of Shintoists would disagree with you.

Prior to the philosophy spawned by the Reformation? No.

Considering the number of Buddhists who performed Shinto rituals in Japan, yes.

[United Muscovite Nations]

So you don't practice Islam. And are purely a nominal Muslim.

Oh, so my relationship with God is dependent on me attending a communal prayer ran by a retarded imam who doesn't know God any better than I do? The Quran nor the Bible requires, or even prefers a follower to attend group prayers. God doesn't need clergy to reach his flock.

Actually, the Bible pretty explicitly does, both Old and New Testaments.

[Thermodolia]

This is pretty much a Supermarket of Ideology approach to religion.

I suppose it works as a last ditch defense against atheism, but religious doctrine is not something you can just pick and choose which parts to believe in. They only ever made any self-consistent sense as part of the coherent whole of the religious doctrine. And part of those doctrines was always about the community of believers, the institutions of faith, and the doctrines of observance of that faith.

Personalism with regards to god is really a product of the protestant reformation, modernity, and the resulting demystification of the world. To me, it seems more like belief for its own sake. You've left the community of believers and cast off the doctrine of observance, but there's still a hole you need to fill in you life, so you fill it with whatever resonates with you at the moment.

I suppose it might just be sympathy for the devil, but as an atheist I'm with the Evil Vicar on this one.

Islam doesn't mandate group prayer. What are you getting at?

I think what they are trying to say is that one can't fully understand their religion without going to its services.