Fidel Castro Dead at Age 90

[Engleberg]

And Hitler improved the economy, military, and much of post-WWI Germany. But you don't see (NORMAL) people supporting National Socialism.

Hitler reduced germany to rubble. What drugs are you on?

Before WWII.

[Belantica]

Hitler reduced germany to rubble. What drugs are you on?

No, butthurt former landowners reduced Germany to rubble

Oh, that is so true! XD
Germany will never return to it's former glory!

[Sacred Margarine]

And Hitler improved the economy, military, and much of post-WWI Germany. But you don't see (NORMAL) people supporting National Socialism.

Hitler reduced germany to rubble. What drugs are you on?

I believe he is speaking of Hitler's economic reform, which did, in fact, work. You are talking about how his poor military strategy towards the end of the war led to his downfall, which is, in fact, true.

[TURTLESHROOM II]

It wasn't an un-American act borne solely out of greed. It was perfectly normal considering what American politics were at the time. Killing people and taking their property is as American as American Football.

In regards to that statement, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Once again, stealing a whole race or group's land is definitively un-American and it was never right, then or now. Just because a majority of people support something doesn't make it right. Why did we steal Indian land? Greed. There was gold on Cherokee land and rare earth metals (IIRC) on Sioux land, and we drove them out to claim it. It was the easiest, cheapest, and simplest option.

We could have easily extracted concessions or mining privileges there, or we could have done like we did in Hawaii and force them to allow a flood of non-native settlers to displace the population's majority, without depriving the natives of their land. Although we forced the Bayonet Constitution on Hawaii, we didn't drive native Hawaiians off of Hawaii or systematically kill them. Although it's still a dirty operation, there are other ways to take something over than drive the people off of it and settle there. You can assimilate, dilute by immigration, or give them enough incentive to willingly let you in.

[HUElavia]

Why would the Moderators ban gloating, though, unless they like the target? That's hardly anything close to trolling.
The Moderators wouldn't crack down on people gloating if Trump lost, after all, because htye have no sense of impartiality.

We're not celebrating the death of Obama or anything that hasn't actually murdered tens and tens of thousands of people. It's like celebrating the death of Hitler or Pol Pot.

Obama has been responsibly for about as many deaths as Castro.

Ummm... No he hasn't. Castro has killed more people than Obama.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-deaths-is-Fidel-Castro-responsible-for
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-obama-administrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/obama-administration-finally-releases-its-dubious-drone-death-toll/

[MERIZoC]

I don't really care what people think. Opinions are not facts. Castro improved literacy, healthcare, and made Cubas economy one of Latin Americas best.

None of which makes up for the reign of terror he inflicted upon his own people and the innocent blood that stains his hands.

I'm sure anybody can make a great country if they killed anyone who disagreed with them and took total control of the government. Would such a government be just? Free? Would it be worth the improvements in literacy? After all, when you can't write freely without being persecuted by an authoritarian government, a substantial value in writing is lost.

And I'm not disagreeing that the oppresivness is bad. I'm saying he's made valuable changes. No man is a saint or a devil, and Castro is certainly no exception.

[Dushan]

Hitler reduced germany to rubble. What drugs are you on?

No, butthurt former landowners reduced Germany to rubble

You mean this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Aid

[Bakery Hill]

I don't see the sense in murdering the people that built one of the greatest healthcare systems in the world to empower the people who bomb civilian airliners. Neither are friends to liberal democracy. But then again neither am I.

Democracy is nice, but beyond the votes, it's maintained through blood.

Yes that's right, not sure what you mean though.

[Dwalin]

Obama has been responsible for about as many deaths as Castro.

Domestically, Obama can be tied to four Americans (Benghazi), a Border Patrolman, and three hundred Mexicans (Fast and Furious). We're talking about a leader killing their own people, not killing foreigners. If we talk foreigners, Bush has technically killed that many people, but at least he took out foreigners and went to war (though he should never have been in Iraq in the first place) instead of torturing and killing his own people.

It was Ernesto "the Butcher of La Caban~ya" Guevera that did most of the killing. I didn't want to bring up Obama because I didn't want to derail the thread and get punished for it.

Bush has been responsible for the deaths of over a million people. Obama less yeah, but still more than Castro.
Even Che Guevera has less deaths on his name than Obama.
That you try to portray a line between who one should be allowed to gloat and who not shows exactly why these rules are here. Almost every single world leader has blood on his/her hands, it isn't anything new nor will it ever change. Its simply part of the job.
Respecting the death is still a thing, no matter what they did during their lives. The death cannot defend themselves anymore and so there's no need to gloat about them.

[MERIZoC]

Hitler reduced germany to rubble. What drugs are you on?

Before WWII.

Your point? Germany, and the German working class, was not better off in any way because of him.

[Autonomous Eastern Ukraine]

No, butthurt former landowners reduced Germany to rubble

You mean this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Aid

Every time I read another article about the Weimar republic it gets worse.
Germany should have stayed a monarchy.

[Bakery Hill]

I'm sure you'll be first off the boat mate.

Is that the best you can respond? Just pseudo-assumptionus nonsense?

I don't what pseudo-assumptionus means, but if you're so gung ho about regime toppling why don't you get down in the mud yourself. Sure the comrades will deal with you just like they did with Kennedy's mob back in the 60s.

[Engleberg]

You mean this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Aid

Every time I read another article about the Weimar republic it gets worse.
Germany should have stayed a monarchy.

See? We need more people to realize that.

[Autonomous Eastern Ukraine]

Every time I read another article about the Weimar republic it gets worse.
Germany should have stayed a monarchy.

See? We need more people to realize that.

Wilhelm II did nothing wrong.

...Now I need to play some Kaiserreich again.

[HUElavia]

Lol no. You are literally advocating for the violent takeover of property, something that is considered a felony if it were an individual doing it. You can ask the tens of thousands of Cuban refugees who live in the US now about how Castro "improved" Cuba, and you'll get a cold reception.

And no, not any cuban who disagreed with Castro was a "butthurt former landowner".

When advancing your ideology involved killing thousands, you are no good leader.

I don't really care what people think. Opinions are not facts. Castro improved literacy, healthcare, and made Cubas economy one of Latin Americas best.

But was it worth it after imprisoning and killing dissidents and stripping off civil rights and enforcing censorship? Now, don't get me wrong, he did help improve the healthcare and education, but that's really the only good he did. Not to mention, no one can be so sure how good the economy is. I mean, the minimum wage isn't good enough for people to survive. That's why we have people getting in rafts and getting into Florida.

[Bakery Hill]

It's sad that had to happen. Why did they hate Castro and the Revolution?

They didn't like the way Castro came into power. I mean, sure Batista wasn't the best leader for Cuba, but we, my family, were okay during those years. My family didn't like the idea of Castro bringing in censorship into the country, as well as throwing dissidents into prison, and they were against his regime. At the end, the bomb incident occurred, and we had to flee.

Your family may have profited under Batista but surely many many others didn't? He was immensely unpopular and prevented an orderly transition through force. I'm sure Castro and his friends would have loved to stand for parliament rather than get shot at up in the bush for a few years.

[USS Monitor]

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Capitalist revolution!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Celebrating people's deaths is against the forum rules. Knock it off.

Why wouldn't the Moderators want us celebrating that a tyrannical mass murderer is finally in Hell?

---

Anyway, I can finally use this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR65_376nGc

Because the forum has rules. You've been around long enough you should know this.

You both get unofficial warnings.

[Dwalin]

Obama has been responsibly for about as many deaths as Castro.

Ummm... No he hasn't. Castro has killed more people than Obama.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-deaths-is-Fidel-Castro-responsible-for
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-obama-administrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/obama-administration-finally-releases-its-dubious-drone-death-toll/

I'm not even looking at Drone strikes by those means. Sure military actions are the direct way of getting blood on your hands as a leader, but i wouldn't simply forget about supporting certain groups who tend to kill others, they count just as equal on this matter.

[Old Tyrannia]

Hitler reduced germany to rubble. What drugs are you on?

Before WWII.

The Nazi economy was a house of cards built on rapid remilitarisation under the Nazi slogan of "guns not butter." Had World War II not broken out it would have collapsed anyway. Hitler was economically illiterate and refused to listen to the advice of those who weren't the moment their advice went against his own plans.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

It wasn't an un-American act borne solely out of greed. It was perfectly normal considering what American politics were at the time. Killing people and taking their property is as American as American Football.

In regards to that statement, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Once again, stealing a whole race or group's land is definitively un-American and it was never right, then or now. Just because a majority of people support something doesn't make it right. Why did we steal Indian land? Greed. There was gold on Cherokee land and rare earth metals (IIRC) on Sioux land, and we drove them out to claim it. It was the easiest, cheapest, and simplest option.

We could have easily extracted concessions or mining privileges there, or we could have done like we did in Hawaii and force them to allow a flood of non-native settlers to displace the population's majority, without depriving the natives of their land. Although we forced the Bayonet Constitution on Hawaii, we didn't drive native Hawaiians off of Hawaii or systematically kill them. Although it's still a dirty operation, there are other ways to take something over than drive the people off of it and settle there. You can assimilate, dilute by immigration, or give them enough incentive to willingly let you in.

Oh, I don't think I'm the one who has no idea. I think you're the one who has no idea of what you're talking about.

The thing you have mentioned are still taking other people's property by the backup of a gun, except you're simply doing it subtly.

That doesn't mean anything, though, and the fact you are willingly sidestepping the point that American has, and will, take shit by force simply because you believe in the U.S. being some paragon of virtue who is above doing it is naïve at best, and delusional at worst.

Americans are simply good at taking shit at gunpoint. It benefits us though, so I don't really care. But apparently, since you can't stop talking about the evils of taking land by force, I felt the need to set the record straight and mention the fact we also do it. And no, it's not un-American as you seem to believe. In fact, it is entirely predictable. Americans are not above the average human on this planet at doing it anyways.

It may not have been right, that doesn't make it un-American. If people support a move that you disagree with that doesn't make it "not part of the country of which we're speaking of". It definitely does.

I mean, this conversation is cute and all, but since it is derailing the thread, and it has been established you either lack knowledge in history, or you have a very romantic view of the United States to the point of delusion, I will stop replying to this particular line of thought.

[Bakery Hill]

It's sad that had to happen. Why did they hate Castro and the Revolution?

One phrase: Ernesto "the Butcher of La Caban~ya" Guevera. Castro killed more than Bautista ever did.

The biggest mistake in Cuban history was the USA not holding onto Cuba. They could have been a prosporous, powerful state in the Union, but NOOOOOOO, we had to let them go!

Hahaha good one mate.

[Geilinor]

I didn't like him, but condolences to his family and those who did. And no gloating.

[Bakery Hill]

Obama has been responsibly for about as many deaths as Castro.

Ummm... No he hasn't. Castro has killed more people than Obama.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-deaths-is-Fidel-Castro-responsible-for
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/the-obama-administrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/obama-administration-finally-releases-its-dubious-drone-death-toll/

Quora is not a good source mate haha

[Bakery Hill]

In regards to that statement, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Once again, stealing a whole race or group's land is definitively un-American and it was never right, then or now. Just because a majority of people support something doesn't make it right. Why did we steal Indian land? Greed. There was gold on Cherokee land and rare earth metals (IIRC) on Sioux land, and we drove them out to claim it. It was the easiest, cheapest, and simplest option.

We could have easily extracted concessions or mining privileges there, or we could have done like we did in Hawaii and force them to allow a flood of non-native settlers to displace the population's majority, without depriving the natives of their land. Although we forced the Bayonet Constitution on Hawaii, we didn't drive native Hawaiians off of Hawaii or systematically kill them. Although it's still a dirty operation, there are other ways to take something over than drive the people off of it and settle there. You can assimilate, dilute by immigration, or give them enough incentive to willingly let you in.

Oh, I don't think I'm the one who has no idea. I think you're the one who has no idea of what you're talking about.

The thing you have mentioned are still taking other people's property by the backup of a gun, except you're simply doing it subtly.

That doesn't mean anything, though, and the fact you are willingly sidestepping the point that American has, and will, take shit by force simply because you believe in the U.S. being some paragon of virtue who is above doing it is naïve at best, and delusional at worst.

Americans are simply good at taking shit at gunpoint. It benefits us though, so I don't really care. But apparently, since you can't stop talking about the evils of taking land by force, I felt the need to set the record straight and mention the fact we also do it. And no, it's not un-American as you seem to believe. In fact, it is entirely predictable. Americans are not above the average human on this planet at doing it anyways.

It may not have been right, that doesn't make it un-American. If people support a move that you disagree with that doesn't make it "not part of the country of which we're speaking of". It definitely does.

I mean, this conversation is cute and all, but since it is derailing the thread, and it has been established you either lack knowledge in history, or you have a very romantic view of the United States to the point of delusion, I will stop replying to this particular line of thought.

He has to be taking the piss right?

[Geilinor]

They didn't like the way Castro came into power. I mean, sure Batista wasn't the best leader for Cuba, but we, my family, were okay during those years. My family didn't like the idea of Castro bringing in censorship into the country, as well as throwing dissidents into prison, and they were against his regime. At the end, the bomb incident occurred, and we had to flee.

Your family may have profited under Batista but surely many many others didn't?

Cuba was already one of the richest countries in Latin America before Castro took power.