UK Politics Thread 18-inch Mark VI: Witty Title Forthcoming

[Hydesland]

I thought you were saying no party was offering "true" right wing foreign policy any more, now you're saying it's what Obama did? Make your mind up please.

Obama's policy is to let them all kill each other, not let the unimportant ones kill each other while taking the oil. Obama's policy isn't pro-American, it's just a repudiation of his predecessor's policy. Still, no one cares how many Iraqi babies it murdered - or at the very least no one blames their death on Obama.

Okay now I'm getting confused. When you say "let them kill each other", let who kill who? It sounded like the policy you were proposing was to deliberately invade a country, take their oil, "cut off" (blockade? ignore? what?) non oil producing regions, and deliberately have these regions collapse into some horrible civil war where everyone kills each other and not give a shit. Is that what you're talking about?

[Major-Tom]

http://www.electograph.com/2017/02/unit ... ruary.html

44% for Tories.

[Setgavarius]

http://www.electograph.com/2017/02/united-kingdom-great-britain-february.html

44% for Tories.

UKIP got slightly bigger too. I assume this means the tories get 500 seats in 2020?

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Obama's policy is to let them all kill each other, not let the unimportant ones kill each other while taking the oil. Obama's policy isn't pro-American, it's just a repudiation of his predecessor's policy. Still, no one cares how many Iraqi babies it murdered - or at the very least no one blames their death on Obama.

Okay now I'm getting confused. When you say "let them kill each other", let who kill who? It sounded like the policy you were proposing was to deliberately invade a country, take their oil, "cut off" (blockade? ignore? what?) non oil producing regions, and deliberately have these regions collapse into some horrible civil war where everyone kills each other and not give a shit. Is that what you're talking about?

I mean just take no interest and let it happen.

Maybe it wouldn't happen. Great. But you'll note it's happening now.

[Hydesland]

Okay now I'm getting confused. When you say "let them kill each other", let who kill who? It sounded like the policy you were proposing was to deliberately invade a country, take their oil, "cut off" (blockade? ignore? what?) non oil producing regions, and deliberately have these regions collapse into some horrible civil war where everyone kills each other and not give a shit. Is that what you're talking about?

I mean just take no interest and let it happen.

Maybe it wouldn't happen. Great. But you'll note it's happening now.

But it's one thing to happen, and another to have it happen deliberately and not care - it's possible Obama did not care and let it happen deliberately, but that would be a conspiracy theory.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

I mean just take no interest and let it happen.

Maybe it wouldn't happen. Great. But you'll note it's happening now.

But it's one thing to happen, and another to have it happen deliberately and not care - it's possible Obama did not care and let it happen deliberately, but that would be a conspiracy theory.

Obama deliberately let it happen and doesn't seem to care, and certainly no one who cares blames Obama for it.

[Hydesland]

But it's one thing to happen, and another to have it happen deliberately and not care - it's possible Obama did not care and let it happen deliberately, but that would be a conspiracy theory.

Obama deliberately let it happen and doesn't seem to care, and certainly no one who cares blames Obama for it.

Funny how you assume a conspiracy for Obama, but meanwhile Bush and republicans were completely sincere in claiming it was a humanitarian mission. Credulity stretching to the max right now.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Obama deliberately let it happen and doesn't seem to care, and certainly no one who cares blames Obama for it.

Funny how you assume a conspiracy for Obama, but meanwhile Bush and republicans were completely sincere in claiming it was a humanitarian mission. Credulity stretching to the max right now.

What conspiracy? I've not disputed Bush caused massive damage; I've disputed that he was trying to steal oil mostly on grounds of absolutely zero evidence that any oil was stolen. I'm sure Obama also thought what he was doing is right.

[Elmstead]

http://www.electograph.com/2017/02/united-kingdom-great-britain-february.html

44% for Tories.

UKIP got slightly bigger too. I assume this means the tories get 500 seats in 2020?

I actually ran those numbers through a simulator earlier, and here are the figures we get using the 2018 boundaries.

CON: 367 (+47) - Majority of 134
LAB: 159 (-43)
UKIP: 0 (-1)
LD: 5 (+0)
GRN: 0 (+0)
SNP: 51 (-1)
PC: 1 (-2)
OTH: 17 (+0)

[Hydesland]

Funny how you assume a conspiracy for Obama, but meanwhile Bush and republicans were completely sincere in claiming it was a humanitarian mission. Credulity stretching to the max right now.

What conspiracy?

That Obama could foresee the rise of ISIS, and let it happen because he didn't care. It's much more likely that things like this are impossibly hard to predict, and Obama did not foresee such a thing.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

What conspiracy?

That Obama could foresee the rise of ISIS, and let it happen because he didn't care. It's much more likely that things like this are impossibly hard to predict, and Obama did not foresee such a thing.

I could certainly bloody well post-see it. Still did nothing.

[Souseiseki]

What conspiracy?

That Obama could foresee the rise of ISIS, and let it happen because he didn't care. It's much more likely that things like this are impossibly hard to predict, and Obama did not foresee such a thing.

it's likely that he knew such a thing was likely to happen, in part because it was already well on its way to happening, but his hands were tied politically, diplomatically and practically as to how much he could really do to stop it. the big fuck ups (with the forseeable consequence of ethnic violence and a new paramilitary force formed of discontent baathists) had already been done in a decisively non-defuckable way.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

Anyway what's foresight got to do with it. I never said Bush foresaw the Iraq disaster. I said he sleepwalked into it because of his naive leftist ideology. Maybe Obama did too.

[Mostrov]

What conspiracy?

That Obama could foresee the rise of ISIS, and let it happen because he didn't care. It's much more likely that things like this are impossibly hard to predict, and Obama did not foresee such a thing.

In fairness, this is exactly what he did in pulling out of Iraq and in his and the foreign departments support of the Arab Spring. The Taliban in Afghanistan and Libya; both of these are places where his policy has had the benefit of hindsight and yet has created a tremendous mess, the latter creating another province for Islamic State.

[Dooom35796821595]

What conspiracy?

That Obama could foresee the rise of ISIS, and let it happen because he didn't care. It's much more likely that things like this are impossibly hard to predict, and Obama did not foresee such a thing.

It's not that hard to predict, just look at history. America supports and trains the mujahideen, which the nation become the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. The lesson? Stop messing around in the Middle East, either do it properly through to the end, or GTFO.

[Hydesland]

Everyone acting so smug with hindsight - at the time I honestly only recall republicans and foreign policy hawks warning about AQ in Iraq (as it was known then), but even then almost certainly only for partisan reasons - meanwhile everyone else was raging at Obama, begging him to bring the troops home, and angered he hadn't done so earlier.

[Tananat]

That Obama could foresee the rise of ISIS, and let it happen because he didn't care. It's much more likely that things like this are impossibly hard to predict, and Obama did not foresee such a thing.

In fairness, this is exactly what he did in pulling out of Iraq and in his milquetoast support of the Arab Spring. The Taliban in Afghanistan are another side of the same coin, as is the mess in Libya; the latter especially was something he engineered and did nothing to fix and has led to another province for Islamic State.

He was bound by an agreement Bush signed with the Iraqis to withdraw by the end of 2011. The Americans left on 18th December of that year.

[Napkiraly]

Everyone acting so smug with hindsight - at the time I honestly only recall republicans and foreign policy hawks warning about AQ in Iraq (as it was known then), but even then almost certainly only for partisan reasons - meanwhile everyone else was raging at Obama, begging him to bring the troops home, and angered he hadn't done so earlier.

And many of those on the right said that bringing them home prematurely would lead to disaster by creating a giant power vacuum. Same warnings being given about Afghanistan.

[Vassenor]

Maaaaybe it's time to segue this stuff about whether US foreign policy precipitated the rise of ISIS into its own thread.

[Hydesland]

TBH it's a fairly slow news day UK wise.

[Vassenor]

Op-Ed: Populist correctness: the new PC culture of Trump's America and Brexit Britain

[The One True Benxboro Empire]

Op-Ed: Populist correctness: the new PC culture of Trump's America and Brexit Britain

This is the root of my contempt. Their language policing, of course. The shoe has only switched feet and it's on the authoritarian steamroller now.

[Napkiraly]

Daily reminder: Both sides are totally fine with language policing so long as it is not the other side doing it.

[The One True Benxboro Empire]

Daily reminder: Both sides are totally fine with language policing so long as it is not the other side doing it.

*looks up from Hypocrite '88*
That we are.
*returns to drinking*

[Elmstead]

TBH it's a fairly slow news day UK wise.

It's been quite a busy day, really.

*We had the latest opinion poll published that would give the Tories a landslide majority of 134 in a general election.
*The Brexit bill is in the Lords and big-hitters such as Lord Hague, Lord Lawson and Lord Mandelson have all spoken - not to mention the PM took the highly unusual move of sitting in the House of Lords for the beginning of the debate.
*Latest NHS finance figures show their deficit is far more than hoped.
*MPs debating two petitions regarding Trump's state visit (one against, one for)
*Northern Ireland election campaign getting more lively.