UK Politics Thread 18-inch Mark VI: Witty Title Forthcoming

[Souseiseki]

do you actually support hard brexit

(don't give me any of this stuff about how a marginal win on a vague referendum gives you infinite mandate for your own personal brexit forever btw)

I think it's pretty daft to claim that any significant portion of the people who voted Brexit actually wanted "Remain minus" - continued free market and free movement but not the power to influence any of the rules. Sector-by-sector negotiations as equals I support, but I'm not opposed to a more EU-friendly transitional deal to tide us over so long as it comes with a very clear expiration date so as to not create the illusion that it's a permanent settlement.

that's the thing though, isn't it? it doesn't need to be significant. it can be as low as 5% or even 2% and that's it, the indomitable will of the british people is in our hands. there are plenty of ways we could have tried to prevent that kinda of scenario, but we never did them are resolute we won't even consider doing them.

edit: also wait does that mean you support hard brexit or not i'm still not sure. tide us over to what? hard brexit?

[Dumb Ideologies]

Hard Brexit is the only Brexit. I support Brexit; do the maths!

If you're trying to scratch around for "Remain-minus" folks to question the mandate that's pretty desperate.

[Souseiseki]

Hard Brexit is the only Brexit. I support Brexit; do the maths!

If you're trying to scratch around for "Remain-minus" folks to question the mandate that's pretty desperate.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... poll-finds
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/co ... er-reduced
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40641.html

look at this shit and tell me the entire thing isn't a massive hodgepod. i can't question the mandat because nobody knows what the leave vote actually means, and that's before we even think about factoring in why people voted how they did.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Hard Brexit is the only Brexit. I support Brexit; do the maths!

If you're trying to scratch around for "Remain-minus" folks to question the mandate that's pretty desperate.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... poll-finds
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/co ... er-reduced
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 40641.html

look at this shit and tell me the entire thing isn't a massive hodgepod. i can't question the mandat because nobody knows what the leave vote actually means, and that's before we even think about factoring in why people voted how they did.

I can't give that much credence. Opinion polling is notoriously unreliable and relies heavily on who asks the questions and the way they phrase them.

[Souseiseki]

fuck it in the leave camp we have

-people that want to leave the EU entirely and rebuild the empire with the commonwealth
-people that want to stay in the single market and have freedom of movement but don't like the ECJ and/or ECHR
-people that want to stay in the single market but end freedom of movement
-people that want to stay in the single market but not have to follow EU rules (????????)
-people that voted as a protest vote against the establishment without real regard to the actual referendum
-people that voted as a psyche to try and get a better deal within the EU
-people that voted to end EU subsidies to their area because bullshit stories about bendy bananas that might change their mind after the UK government told them they're not filling that blackhole
-people that want to leave the EU proper but be in the EFTA
-people that want to leave the EU proper but get in the EEA
-people who think the UK is going to get an awesome deal with no only the EU but the entire world and are may be in for a huge wake up call

i have nothing but serious lols for anyone that thinks they can get a majority vote for one single option out of all these groups, nevermind a majority for by far the most extreme option. and again remember that despite you calling it desperate scratching all you need is a truly minuscule within the margin of error shift in or even across any of these groups and your entire house of cards crumbles to the ground.

[Great Nepal]

do you actually support hard brexit

(don't give me any of this stuff about how a marginal win on a vague referendum gives you infinite mandate for your own personal brexit forever btw)

I think it's pretty daft to claim that any significant portion of the people who voted Brexit actually wanted "Remain minus" - continued free market and free movement but not the power to influence any of the rules. Sector-by-sector negotiations as equals I support, but I'm not opposed to a more EU-friendly transitional deal to tide us over so long as it comes with a very clear expiration date so as to not create the illusion that it's a permanent settlement.

Firstly it doesn't need to be a signification portion, about 7% will do just fine - the group can include people who voted for Brexit because they wanted unilateral free trade, group who thought we could be like Norway, group who thought we could be like Switzerland, group who wanted to stick it to Cameron, group who wanted to stick it to the man.
Secondly, we'd know that if leave voters demanded leave campaign produce a clear, and publicly accessible document regarding what approach they're officially enforcing by voting to leave. Since no one bothered, leaving the EU and becoming member of a one nation Federal Europe is equally valid interpretation of the refendum as say blowing up the economy by pursuing hard brexit.

[Minoa]

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38134560

I am to follow through my commitment to leave the UK forever as soon as my visa is issued and my all-important disability care is negotiated. I do not want to be British any more. I want to be stateless.

[IceBuddha]

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38134560

I am to follow through my commitment to leave the UK forever as soon as my visa is issued and my all-important disability care is negotiated. I do not want to be British any more. I want to be stateless.

Iceland is my back up if my country goes to shit.

[Souseiseki]

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38134560

I am to follow through my commitment to leave the UK forever as soon as my visa is issued and my all-important disability care is negotiated. I do not want to be British any more. I want to be stateless.

i don't think you can be stateless technically but you could certainly find a state that's better

edit: if only there was a way to move easily between european countries

[Ifreann]

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38134560

I am to follow through my commitment to leave the UK forever as soon as my visa is issued and my all-important disability care is negotiated. I do not want to be British any more. I want to be stateless.

i don't think you can be stateless technically but you could certainly find a state that's better

edit: if only there was a way to move easily between european countries

There are various international treaties about preventing statelessness and helping people out in the event that their state stops existing, like that one Tom Hanks movie. But once CONTROL is fully TAKEN BACK, I'm sure Britain will be pulling out of them and all other treaties.

[Olivaero]

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38134560

I am to follow through my commitment to leave the UK forever as soon as my visa is issued and my all-important disability care is negotiated. I do not want to be British any more. I want to be stateless.

Where are you planning to move to? Ireland seems to be the easiest. English speaking and visa-less travel.

[Souseiseki]

"The safeguards in this Act reflect the UK’s international reputation for protecting human rights." -Government response to a petition on the Investigatory Powers Bill

holy shit my sides

[Souseiseki]

in retrospect i'm still annoyed that theresa may got off with no penalties for contempt of court and the intelligence services got zero punishment for flagrantly breaking the law for years

people have their fucking lives destroyed over drugs or porn but these bastards get away with fucking anything

she'd have ruined your fucking life given the chance, half the judges would have fucking destroyed someone doing similar things if they were normal plebs and it's fucking bullshit they're allowed to live it up

[Vassenor]

Minimum wage workers set to be an average of £202 a year worse off under new plans

Stuff from the Autumn Statement they wanted buried.

[Val Halla]

Kate Bush confirmed for having stupid opinions.

Also surely May shouldn't be able to do anything from conflict of interest.

[Ostroeuropa]

in retrospect i'm still annoyed that theresa may got off with no penalties for contempt of court and the intelligence services got zero punishment for flagrantly breaking the law for years

people have their fucking lives destroyed over drugs or porn but these bastards get away with fucking anything

she'd have ruined your fucking life given the chance, half the judges would have fucking destroyed someone doing similar things if they were normal plebs and it's fucking bullshit they're allowed to live it up

Ban government officials from hiring lawyers for criminal trials, use public defenders? I'd be down with that. In fact I'd wait til some of them were on air to propose it. The look on their face would be argument in favor enough. I don't think i've ever seen one actually shit themselves yet.

[Vassenor]

in retrospect i'm still annoyed that theresa may got off with no penalties for contempt of court and the intelligence services got zero punishment for flagrantly breaking the law for years

people have their fucking lives destroyed over drugs or porn but these bastards get away with fucking anything

she'd have ruined your fucking life given the chance, half the judges would have fucking destroyed someone doing similar things if they were normal plebs and it's fucking bullshit they're allowed to live it up

Ban government officials from hiring lawyers for criminal trials, use public defenders? I'd be down with that. In fact I'd wait til some of them were on air to propose it. The look on their face would be argument in favor enough. I don't think i've ever seen one actually shit themselves yet.

That's one way to get them to stop cutting the Legal Aid budget.

[Ifreann]

in retrospect i'm still annoyed that theresa may got off with no penalties for contempt of court and the intelligence services got zero punishment for flagrantly breaking the law for years

people have their fucking lives destroyed over drugs or porn but these bastards get away with fucking anything

she'd have ruined your fucking life given the chance, half the judges would have fucking destroyed someone doing similar things if they were normal plebs and it's fucking bullshit they're allowed to live it up

Ban government officials from hiring lawyers for criminal trials, use public defenders?

What would that accomplish?

[UCE Watchdog of the Puppets]

Ban government officials from hiring lawyers for criminal trials, use public defenders?

What would that accomplish?

Presumably public defenders wouldn't be so motivated to defend their clients, or so talented?

[Ostroeuropa]

Ban government officials from hiring lawyers for criminal trials, use public defenders?

What would that accomplish?

Better public defenders and more jailed government officials when they break the law.

[Ifreann]

What would that accomplish?

Better public defenders and more jailed government officials when they break the law.

Why would it mean more jailed government officials when they break the law? Is it not judges that set sentences?

[Ostroeuropa]

Better public defenders and more jailed government officials when they break the law.

Why would it mean more jailed government officials when they break the law? Is it not judges that set sentences?

Based on the performances at the trial, yeh.

[Tananat]

Hard Brexit is the only Brexit. I support Brexit; do the maths!

Huh, well its nice to have confirmation that you want the country to fail. GG

[Ifreann]

Why would it mean more jailed government officials when they break the law? Is it not judges that set sentences?

Based on the performances at the trial, yeh.

What? "You were convicted, but your lawyer did a great job defending you, so you can just go"?

[Ostroeuropa]

Based on the performances at the trial, yeh.

What? "You were convicted, but your lawyer did a great job defending you, so you can just go"?

Uh, yeh, pretty much. That's...

I mean...

Sentence reduction is one of a lawyers main jobs during trial.