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Dumb Ideologies
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:49 am

Vassenor wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:i've been noticing that a lot of the major figures that say strictly speaking brexit doesn't have to happen are receiving death threats. the woman that brought the high court case is now under police protection. that's pretty weird, imo.


#notallbrexiteers


Well, no, it plainly isn't all brexit advocates. Just like it isn't all men who harass and disrespect women, hence the validity of "not all men" responses to feminazi radicals, which I believe you're alluding to. But as you're anti-Brexit that leads one to question whether you're being somehow facetious and believe that it *is* all Brexit advocates and that we're all complicit in threats of murder. But then that'd be silly and you've of course shown yourself to be a paragon of rationality.

With just one hashtag you've created quite the quandary.
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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:50 am

Souseiseki wrote:
Hydesland wrote:
It's nothing to do with length, only the multitude of assertions spanning multiple topics - would take prohibitively long to fairly dissect even half of that post. Extremely not useful for a discussion forum.


then pick your fav or ignore it like everyone else.

The Liberated Territories wrote:Don't worry, Aly likes to run around claiming the sky is falling when it actually isn't. xd


unless you want to make a post like this, then i expect you to put up or whoops can't say that.


I don't think I've ever actually seen anyone post a rebuttal source for anything related to claims about Brexit having negative potential outcomes. Just vague rhetoric about scaremongering and lies.
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Eastfield Lodge
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Eastfield Lodge » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:55 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:Don't worry, Aly likes to run around claiming the sky is falling when it actually isn't. xd

And then when the sky really is falling, no-one will believe it until it's too late! The perfect plan!
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Hydesland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:57 am

Souseiseki wrote:then pick your fav or ignore it like everyone else.


But I'm pretty sure I remember doing this before, and you chastised me for ignoring the rest of the post.

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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:58 am

Hydesland wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:then pick your fav or ignore it like everyone else.


But I'm pretty sure I remember doing this before, and you chastised me for ignoring the rest of the post.


i'm pretty sure this didn't happen.

i hereby promise not to do it this time, as the post was quite general yes.
Last edited by Souseiseki on Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Liberated Territories
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Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:02 am

Aly wrote:unless you want to make a post like this, then i expect you to put up or whoops can't say that.


k aly *pats*
Last edited by The Liberated Territories on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:05 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:
Aly wrote:unless you want to make a post like this, then i expect you to put up or whoops can't say that.


k aly *pats*


i eagerly anticipate your forthcoming response.

edit: if need a guiding framework i would suggest finding cases where i have said the sky will fall down and showing how the sky did indeed not fall down
Last edited by Souseiseki on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Great Nepal
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Nepal » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:09 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:As an American, I for one welcome Farage to our country. He can be Trump's foreign affairs dude.

You are most certainly welcome to him; I'd personally recommend posting him to somewhere near moon but whatever.
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Hydesland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:10 am

Okay, following statements I'd like a source for, for now:

Souseiseki wrote:the amount of hunger strikes and people on suicide watch in our probably full of rape and abuse but it's covered up because that's bad for business immigrant camps is an all time high.


Source on hunger strikes/suicide watch people all time high (and whether the rate is a significantly high level to begin with), I'm not saying it's wrong I just haven't heard it before.

the maximum penalty for file sharing will now be 10 years in prison.


Source on this? Is this new? Does it mainly concern people who bulk upload terabytes of data, or regular torrent users?

an increasingly authoritarian government, the rise of the far right


IFS is predicting this? Pretty sure the IFS only sticks to economics.

if he "possibly wrongly" believed his house would be taken by immigrants and pondered whether that is why he killed her. one wonders where he could have possibly gotten that kind of idea?


I really dislike the Daily Shite, but is it really that terrible to probe possible ancillary motivations for a crime?

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CountryLandVilleTown
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Ex-Nation

Postby CountryLandVilleTown » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:16 am

Hydesland wrote:I really dislike the Daily Shite, but is it really that terrible to probe possible ancillary motivations for a crime?


the coverage was basically "he killed her because he was worred about immigrants taking his house" which does nothing but stir up yet more hatred towards immigrants and also makes it looke like he had "legitimate concerns" or whatever they call it
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Hydesland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:20 am

CountryLandVilleTown wrote:
Hydesland wrote:I really dislike the Daily Shite, but is it really that terrible to probe possible ancillary motivations for a crime?


the coverage was basically "he killed her because he was worred about immigrants taking his house" which does nothing but stir up yet more hatred towards immigrants and also makes it looke like he had "legitimate concerns" or whatever they call it


I mean they called him a Neo-Nazi terrorist, so at least they're not pussyfooting around that issue.

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CountryLandVilleTown
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Ex-Nation

Postby CountryLandVilleTown » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:32 am

Hydesland wrote:I mean they called him a Neo-Nazi terrorist, so at least they're not pussyfooting around that issue.


right but that doesn't negate any of what i said. they're giving him justifications and taking no credit for the fact that rags like theirs are the ones fanning the flames of the "migrants will take my home" panic
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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:35 am

It's been an interesting ride though.

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Hydesland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:36 am

CountryLandVilleTown wrote:
Hydesland wrote:I mean they called him a Neo-Nazi terrorist, so at least they're not pussyfooting around that issue.


right but that doesn't negate any of what i said. they're giving him justifications and taking no credit for the fact that rags like theirs are the ones fanning the flames of the "migrants will take my home" panic


But it's an unwinnable situation. It's of interest that this man was being asked to move out of his house. It's also of interest that this man feared immigrants were going to take his house. There is absolutely nothing wrong with reporting this, even if those fears were exacerbated in part by what the daily mail printed previously, that doesn't mean this information should not be reported - and they go out of their way to paint him as a Neo Nazi terrorist while doing this. I feel like this is a 'crying wolf' attack on the paper, which detracts from the many many legitimate criticisms that exist of it.

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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:39 am

Hydesland wrote:Source on hunger strikes/suicide watch people all time high (and whether the rate is a significantly high level to begin with), I'm not saying it's wrong I just haven't heard it before.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... um-seekers

in retrospect my usage of the phrase "all time high" was based on a misunderstanding of the text. we are unable to determine whether it is higher or lower than usual because it falls into the category of things the home office don't like us knowing.

Source on this? Is this new? Does it mainly concern people who bulk upload terabytes of data, or regular torrent users?


https://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaig ... onomy-bill

this may be considered a biased source, so i decided to go through the actual legislation just for you. clause 26 of the digital economy bill 2015 substitutes "two" for "ten" in subsections (4A)(b) and (5A)(b) of section 107 of the copyright, desgins and patents act 1988. so you can see "a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years" becoming "a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years".

the government says this is only targeted at big uploaders, but that's pretty much a case by case decision instead of a hardfast rule. i'm not saying regular file sharers will get 10 years in prison, but after the number of convictions under section 63 of the criminal justice and immigration act jumped from "expected 30 a year"* to "1,300+ a year"* i will never trust what they say ever again.

i'd also say it doesn't matter who it is aimed at. there is no situation under which i can see 10 years being justified, especially when it makes the maximum sentence for filing sharing double that of rape when the victim is 16 or over (5 years)* or the same as raping a child under the age of 13 (10 years)*.

*i can drag out sources for all of this as well, if you're really insistent

IFS is predicting this? Pretty sure the IFS only sticks to economics.


no. the sentence of things i think are totally cool and the IFS predictions are separate sentences. i never claimed this.

I really dislike the Daily Shite, but is it really that terrible to probe possible ancillary motivations for a crime?


"possibly wrongly" alone is enough to make them sound like utter cunts. yes, it should have been front page news not page 30 news and the motivations of the killing as given by the court record should have been given ample recognition.
Last edited by Souseiseki on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aggicificicerous
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Aggicificicerous » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:46 am

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... -explained

What are you crazy Brits doing over there? Letting the government ban "obscene" pornography is bad enough, but now that the framework for censoring the internet is in place, more could easily follow.

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The Liberated Territories
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Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:49 am

Aggicificicerous wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/25/what-how-and-why-the-uks-new-online-porn-restrictions-explained

What are you crazy Brits doing over there? Letting the government ban "obscene" pornography is bad enough, but now that the framework for censoring the internet is in place, more could easily follow.


Natural consequence of giving the state too much power
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Souseiseki
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Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:49 am

The Liberated Territories wrote:
Aggicificicerous wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/25/what-how-and-why-the-uks-new-online-porn-restrictions-explained

What are you crazy Brits doing over there? Letting the government ban "obscene" pornography is bad enough, but now that the framework for censoring the internet is in place, more could easily follow.


Natural consequence of giving the state too much power


but i thought the sky wasn't falling down?
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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The Liberated Territories
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Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:52 am

Souseiseki wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:
Natural consequence of giving the state too much power


but i thought the sky wasn't falling down?


Bah, I thought you liked these kind of things. Always wanting to give the government more money...
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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:54 am

Despite gradual liberalisation over the course of the 20th century, helped when the Obscene Publications Act finally allowed a defence of artistic merit against charges of obscenity, by the 1990s Britain still had far more stringent censorship than countries such as Germany or Denmark. All that changed with the internet, which allowed information to be streamed straight into people’s homes from around the world without restriction. Until now.


but seriously this isn't true. we have always had more stringent censorship than germany and denmark and the internet did not change that. if it did then the extra restrictions on pornography in 2008 changed it back. i imagine they just choose that wording because it sounded cool.

e: props to the article for mentioning "The UK – and in fact the English-speaking world – has a history of drawing its rules of censorship much more tightly than continental Europe." though. makes it pretty clear why i want to move and don't want to go to another anglophone country. a group of lost causes.
Last edited by Souseiseki on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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Hydesland
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Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:58 am

Souseiseki wrote:in retrospect my usage of the phrase "all time high" was based on a misunderstanding of the text.


I'm wondering why I should take any unsourced claim of yours seriously any more.

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Souseiseki
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Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:00 am

Hydesland wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:in retrospect my usage of the phrase "all time high" was based on a misunderstanding of the text.


I'm wondering why I should take any unsourced claim of yours seriously any more.


there are two three reasons. the first is that everyone makes mistakes sometimes and i like to think i'm usually right, the second is that i will dump unholy amounts of text on you, the third is that i will hound you for sources of every statement you ever make.
Last edited by Souseiseki on Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:02 am

Aggicificicerous wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/25/what-how-and-why-the-uks-new-online-porn-restrictions-explained

What are you crazy Brits doing over there? Letting the government ban "obscene" pornography is bad enough, but now that the framework for censoring the internet is in place, more could easily follow.

Somebody once told me* that the American Bill O' Rights is basically a list of shit they wanted that Britain didn't have, and right after secular government and freedom of religion they put free speech. So this is less "terrifying new development" and more "reversion to form".


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Hydesland
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Founded: Nov 28, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Hydesland » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:05 am

Souseiseki wrote:i will hound you for sources of every statement you ever make.


Nothing wrong with this.

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Aggicificicerous
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Founded: Apr 24, 2007
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Aggicificicerous » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:28 am

Ifreann wrote:
Aggicificicerous wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/25/what-how-and-why-the-uks-new-online-porn-restrictions-explained

What are you crazy Brits doing over there? Letting the government ban "obscene" pornography is bad enough, but now that the framework for censoring the internet is in place, more could easily follow.

Somebody once told me* that the American Bill O' Rights is basically a list of shit they wanted that Britain didn't have, and right after secular government and freedom of religion they put free speech. So this is less "terrifying new development" and more "reversion to form".


*the world is gonna roll me.


I can't help but wonder if it's just an excuse for old men to watch porn all day under the guise of deciding what is "obscene" and what isn't. As Sir Humphrey Applebee would say, it's nice work if you can get it.

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