UK Politics Thread 18-inch Mark VI: Witty Title Forthcoming

[Ifreann]

How quickly the Matrix is forgotten.

I don't recall Smith ranting about smells when he was doing his "human beings are a disease" spiel.

He does actually talk about the smell of humans at some point while chatting with Morpheus.

[Vassenor]

Rumours May might call another Election in September to try and blunt the student vote.

[Frank Zipper]

I hope Corbyn at Glastonbury doesn't turn into something akin to Kinnock's 1992 "We're alright" moment.

[Ifreann]

I hope Corbyn at Glastonbury doesn't turn into something akin to Kinnock's 1992 "We're alright" moment.

Jam, Pringles, and ecstasy. Corbyn knows what the youth of today want.

[Hydesland]

>protest peacefully for years

Ah yes those famous fire safety regulation protests that got nationwide attention, I remember those.

[Souseiseki]

>protest peacefully for years

Ah yes those famous fire safety regulation protests that got nationwide attention, I remember those.

you realize you have literally just proven my point right

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

>come to Britain with no money and no skills
>get given a free million pound apartment in Kensington by the British taxpayer
>snicker because if you had been slightly richer you would have been forced to move to Croydon to rent a 200k flat like a normal person
>random accident happens to you in your million pound flat paid for by British taxpayers
>KILL ALL BRITISH TAXPAYERS THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS

Actually, it is sort of true.

[Souseiseki]

>set up campaign group and spend several years warning and pressuring local council about dangers
>concerns are pretty much completely ignored
>several borderline incidents
>keep warning and pressuring
>nothing
>governments own reports high lists dangers
>government does nothing then votes down bill that would force higher safety standards
>shit hits the fan just as you predicted

hmm, yes, what a terrible random accident. if only we could have done something. alas, 'twas not to be.

[Hydesland]

>set up campaign group and spend several years warning and pressuring local council about dangers

Which campaign group? How many of the residents were involved, how much pressure were they applying, how much of a serious issue was it to them? How many of the protestors right now were involved?

[Hydesland]

The reason I'm pushing back a little at this is because:

a) "we were completely ignored" is always the lazy, post-hoc justification for rioting that militants jump to despite not having any idea what they're actually talking about.
b) economics has taught me that 90% of the time anyone who says "I warned you about this but I was suppressed/censored/ignoreed" is either 1) a liar, 2) a snake-oil charlatan, 3) a lunatic or 4) a total nobody with no credibility or support base that anyone would have any reason to listen to in the first place.

[Frank Zipper]

>come to Britain with no money and no skills
>get given a free million pound apartment in Kensington by the British taxpayer
>snicker because if you had been slightly richer you would have been forced to move to Croydon to rent a 200k flat like a normal person
>random accident happens to you in your million pound flat paid for by British taxpayers
>KILL ALL BRITISH TAXPAYERS THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS

Actually, it is sort of true.

[Fartsniffage]

The reason I'm pushing back a little at this is because:

a) "we were completely ignored" is always the lazy, post-hoc justification for rioting that militants jump to despite not having any idea what they're actually talking about.
b) economics has taught me that 90% of the time anyone who says "I warned you about this but I was suppressed/censored/ignoreed" is either 1) a liar, 2) a snake-oil charlatan, 3) a lunatic or 4) a total nobody with no credibility or support base that anyone would have any reason to listen to in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Webb_(architect)

This guy has been talking about this stuff for years. The Beeb have been using him as a source a lot during the coverage.

[Souseiseki]

The reason I'm pushing back a little at this is because:

a) "we were completely ignored" is always the lazy, post-hoc justification for rioting that militants jump to despite not having any idea what they're actually talking about.
b) economics has taught me that 90% of the time anyone who says "I warned you about this but I was suppressed/censored/ignoreed" is either 1) a liar, 2) a snake-oil charlatan, 3) a lunatic or 4) a total nobody with no credibility or support base that anyone would have any reason to listen to in the first place.

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... with-fire/

you can have a look at the site of one of the groups mentioned earlier and see if they fit your criteria for credibility if you want (guest starring the london fire brigade saying some of the places were unsafe)

and also several of the governments own reports over the years highlighting concerns over safety.

[Thanatttynia]

>set up campaign group and spend several years warning and pressuring local council about dangers

Which campaign group? How many of the residents were involved, how much pressure were they applying, how much of a serious issue was it to them? How many of the protestors right now were involved?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/fire-safety-concerns-raised-by-grenfell-tower-residents-in-2012
Don't know how many of the residents were involved but someone made 19 complaints on behalf of other residents.

David Collins, a member of the Grenfell Tower residents’ association, said it had “repeatedly reported concerns to the tenant management organisation of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, including fire safety concerns which were not investigated during the regeneration works”.

He said there were “concerns over locations of boilers, concerns about escape, concerns about fire escape lighting – the list goes on”.

“I spoke to councillors and they refused to investigate,” Collins said. “They wouldn’t believe that the residents were concerned. Ninety percent of residents signed an independent petition asking for there to be an investigation into the organisation that runs this building because they were so incompetent. And the council turned it down.”

[Hydesland]

The reason I'm pushing back a little at this is because:

a) "we were completely ignored" is always the lazy, post-hoc justification for rioting that militants jump to despite not having any idea what they're actually talking about.
b) economics has taught me that 90% of the time anyone who says "I warned you about this but I was suppressed/censored/ignoreed" is either 1) a liar, 2) a snake-oil charlatan, 3) a lunatic or 4) a total nobody with no credibility or support base that anyone would have any reason to listen to in the first place.

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... with-fire/

you can have a look at the site of one of the groups mentioned earlier and see if they fit your criteria for credibility if you want (guest starring the london fire brigade saying some of the places were unsafe)

and also several of the governments own reports over the years highlighting concerns over safety.

Why doesn't that page appear on the archive before the day of the fire (other entries do)? https://web.archive.org/web/20170701000 ... with-fire/

Regardless, we've gone from "peaceful protesting" to a hitherto unheard of blog. If you ask me, the jump from "we warned you about this on our tiny blog" to "it's no use, we have no choice but to riot" seems quite a stretch.

[Souseiseki]

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... with-fire/

you can have a look at the site of one of the groups mentioned earlier and see if they fit your criteria for credibility if you want (guest starring the london fire brigade saying some of the places were unsafe)

and also several of the governments own reports over the years highlighting concerns over safety.

Why doesn't that page appear on the archive before the day of the fire (other entries do)? https://web.archive.org/web/20170701000 ... with-fire/

Regardless, we've gone from "peaceful protesting" to a hitherto unheard of blog. If you ask me, the jump from "we warned you about this on our tiny blog" to "it's no use, we have no choice but to riot" seems quite a stretch.

which pages appear? the archive isn't an automatic process.

don't forget the government reports etc! i was talking about what the fall out from a hypothetical riot might be not calling for anarchy in the UK.

[Hydesland]

which pages appear? the archive isn't an automatic process.

If you search the blog itself many entries are saved most months back several years.

don't forget the government reports etc! i was talking about what the fall out from a hypothetical riot might be not calling for anarchy in the UK.

The government reports aren't relevant to what the residents/protestors did previously themselves.

[Souseiseki]

which pages appear? the archive isn't an automatic process.

If you search the blog itself many entries are saved most months back several years.

don't forget the government reports etc! i was talking about what the fall out from a hypothetical riot might be not calling for anarchy in the UK.

The government reports aren't relevant to what the residents/protestors did previously themselves.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170521031 ... press.com/

here's a snapshot from may 21 in which that page is listed in the sidebar. this should be enough to satisfy that it existed before june. as for the content, i again remind you that the archive is a manual process. someone has to request an archive.

i'd say it's relevant to the push as a whole.

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

I fully believe that anything associated with the government of Kensington and Chelsea is inept. But if you are receiving million pound accommodation for fifty quid a month you really cannot complain. Take your fifty quid elsewhere if you choose and see what is the next best offer.

[Souseiseki]

I fully believe that anything associated with the government of Kensington and Chelsea is inept. But if you are receiving million pound accommodation for fifty quid a month you really cannot complain. Take your fifty quid elsewhere if you choose and see what is the next best offer.

they died

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

That is a calculated risk they took just like choosing to continue driving an old car.

[Fartsniffage]

That is a calculated risk they took just like choosing to continue driving an old car.

I live in a 120+ year old house. Should I resign myself to burning to death in my sleep?

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

No, you shouldn't resign, since even in an unsafe building by our standards fire deaths are very rare. You can choose how you spend your money on safety, space, and location, though. My grandmother for instance lived for many years in a council-owned house in the north of England. She was much safer there if for no other reason that that it would be much easier to get out of the house in an emergency. But that place was in an uncool location and only worth about 60k, so her rent was actually quite close to the market rent. Won't have been the case here. For the record I would also have stayed in a next-to-free million GBP apartment in Kensington even if I regarded it as poorly maintained.

[Thanatttynia]

That is a calculated risk they took just like choosing to continue driving an old car.

So no one should be held accountable for anything because there is always a certain amount of risk whatever you do?

[HMS Queen Elizabeth]

That is a calculated risk they took just like choosing to continue driving an old car.

So no one should be held accountable for anything because there is always a certain amount of risk whatever you do?

If someone deliberately set fire to the building, either to kill people or in the knowledge that it would likely kill, that person is a murderer and should be hanged.

If it was an accident, I do not believe that safety standards making it 0.001% likely vs possible 0.0001% make those deciding the standards murderers.

There is (prospectively) no one to blame here and the politicking surrounding it is revolting.