French presidential primaries

[Great Franconia and Verana]

Well, she poses a threat to the globalists so of course she is presented as the ultimate boogeyman. I must admit I didn't know her until I read the 144 points of the FN platform and I don't see anything too worrying in there. People are so quick to imagine sieg heils and Brown shirts everywhere these days, especially here in Canada.

That is unfortunately so true.
The left and their Liberal party goons are doing an incredibly fast job at destroying Canada. I'm sad each day I woke up to see Trudeau as my head of government.
I hope Max Bernier will win the conservative race to undo most of what the libs did. Tho unfucking the debt might be a very hard and long task.

FN's positions are watered down a lot from Jean-Marie Le Pen's FN. And that's the point "the medias" are working hard on to keep the pleb in ignorance. The current FN platform is actually pretty decent and tamed.
It is just not globalist. At all. Besides that they support social democracy, state services but to help the french people; not foreigners.

Destroying Canada....
Thank you, I havent laughed like that in a while.

Anyways, Le Pen's election would further destabilize the EU, and damage the already weak French economy.
As fun as it is to accept the new vogue that globalism is the root of every economic problem, lets not use it as a scapegoat shall we?

Macron has my backing all the way over Le Pen. Its high time for the mainstream to strike back at this silly wave of populism.

[Neu Leonstein]

Well, she poses a threat to the globalists so of course she is presented as the ultimate boogeyman. I must admit I didn't know her until I read the 144 points of the FN platform and I don't see anything too worrying in there. People are so quick to imagine sieg heils and Brown shirts everywhere these days, especially here in Canada.

You missed the part about leaving the euro then?

It's not about the brown shirts. It's about blowing up your banks deliberately, just because you were personally offended by the new bank notes as a teenager. Clearly that's worrying to some people.

[Major-Tom]

The National Front may love France, but they hate the French.

At least they don't hate both unlike globalists.

Globalist is too much of a buzz word - globalism is good for economies, in the sense that it lowers prices and encourages competition, which is ultimately better for economies. Issues arise when trade deals benefit multinationals as opposed to the consumer, but even then, that isn't a reason as to why we should adopt protectionism.

Free trade, competitive taxes, and a post-war work ethic really boosted Western Europe after WW2, and I'd hate to see economic growth in France continue to stagnate because of anti-growth policies.

[Union of Despotistan]

Exactement!

Le Pen might have some weird views here and there brought by the old FN, but it is still miles ahead of Macron's globalist policies.

At the very least, FN loves France and is proud of its past to the point they are willing to fight for a better France, unlike Macron who wants more of the same old failing policies his predecessors had.

The National Front may love France, but they hate the French.

Let's be honest tho, not even the french loves the french.

[Major-Tom]

The National Front may love France, but they hate the French.

Let's be honest tho, not even the french loves the french.

Lol, I've seen that meme.

Outside of Paris, however, I found that the French were some of the funniest, most hospitable people in all of Western Europe. Its the Parisians I can't stand half the time.

[Novus America]

At least they don't hate both unlike globalists.

Globalist is too much of a buzz word - globalism is good for economies, in the sense that it lowers prices and encourages competition, which is ultimately better for economies. Issues arise when trade deals benefit multinationals as opposed to the consumer, but even then, that isn't a reason as to why we should adopt protectionism.

Free trade, competitive taxes, and a post-war work ethic really boosted Western Europe after WW2, and I'd hate to see economic growth in France continue to stagnate because of anti-growth policies.

Free trade only works with countries with at least a comparable level of development and some regulatory mechanism. Free trade with the EU is not the same as "free trade" (purely one sided) with protectionist China.

You have to stop a race to the bottom. And ensure basic worker rights and the environment are protected.

[Saint-Thor]

Well, she poses a threat to the globalists so of course she is presented as the ultimate boogeyman. I must admit I didn't know her until I read the 144 points of the FN platform and I don't see anything too worrying in there. People are so quick to imagine sieg heils and Brown shirts everywhere these days, especially here in Canada.

You missed the part about leaving the euro then?

It's not gonna be the end of the world. Some of the most prosperous countries in Europe can manage incredibly well without the Euro (Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, UK, Denmark) I'd even say they're doing better than the rest.

[Major-Tom]

You missed the part about leaving the euro then?

It's not gonna be the end of the world. Some of the most prosperous countries in Europe can manage incredibly well without the Euro (Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, UK, Denmark) I'd even say they're doing better than the rest.

France should slowly phase out the Euro. That is one area where I certainly agree with LePen, even if I find a lot of her ideas silly.

A monetary union that encompasses poorer and less diversified economies such as Bulgarias and highly diversified and productive economies like Hollands is bound to do very poorly whenever a recession hits, and a monetary union that allows for borrowing and the like can lead to disaster (see, Greece.)

One option is a combined fiscal union alongside the monetary union(an idea Europhiles have), which would be absolutely silly, simply because you can't expect Bulgaria and Holland to have the same fiscal policy. The other option is to leave the Eurozone but stay in Schengen and the Single Market, I think that would be beneficial. Maybe a full Frexit isn't desirable, but leaving the Eurozone is favorable for sure.

[Arkinesia]

Exactement!

Le Pen might have some weird views here and there brought by the old FN, but it is still miles ahead of Macron's globalist policies.

At the very least, FN loves France and is proud of its past to the point they are willing to fight for a better France, unlike Macron who wants more of the same old failing policies his predecessors had.

My concern would be her protectionism and economic policies that would hinder growth in an already stagnant French economy.

She's an anti-immigrant socialist like most Eurosceptic candidates and parties.

[The Conez Imperium]

Wait, do you really think FN's ambition to leave the European Union and recreate the Franc is going to help France's economy?

Um, no? What gave you that idea?

I was questioning, Union of Despotistan. I just happened to click the quote button when I was reading the thread.

[Neu Leonstein]

It's not gonna be the end of the world. Some of the most prosperous countries in Europe can manage incredibly well without the Euro (Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, UK, Denmark) I'd even say they're doing better than the rest.

Path dependence is a thing though.

France should slowly phase out the Euro. That is one area where I certainly agree with LePen, even if I find a lot of her ideas silly.

Except that that's the silliest idea of them all. You can't "slowly phase out" a currency. Not when you have working financial markets and no capital controls.

Anyway, I've talked about my views regarding leaving the euro at length in another thread, and would be happy to continue there. This is probably not the thread to turn into a macro finance discussion.

EDIT: And here is a lengthy discussion of Le Pen's proposed changes to the constitution. As to whether these are anti-republican or not, I suppose is a question up for debate.

EDIT 2: And apparently if she won and tried to push through an EU (or is that just euro? I don't even know anymore) referendum and it failed, she'd resign.

[Aelex]

EDIT: And here is a lengthy discussion of Le Pen's proposed changes to the constitution. As to whether these are anti-republican or not, I suppose is a question up for debate.

The insistence you put on the République Française being "at core", " liberal" and "parliamentarian" shows how little you actually know about it.
The 5th Republic was built by De Gaulle as an "elective monarchy" with the system erected with the goal of avoiding parliamentarism because of the utter failure it proved to be for both the 3rd and 4th Republic.
Liberalism itself is something that has disappeared entirely from both our cultural and political scene and the label of "liberal" is either simply not understood or taken as an insult.

If anything this article is reinforcing in my eye the legitimacy of Marine's reforms which are essentially ones of return to the old Statu Quo in France. Her desire to use referenda extensively especially is something I can only agree with as they are the real core of our République and the firsts stones on which it was built.

[Neu Leonstein]

The insistence you put on the République Française being "at core", " liberal" and "parliamentarian" shows how little you actually know about it.

Me? I didn't write that, and I don't claim to be an expert. I just shared it because it's relevant to the discussion.

[Aelex]

Me? I didn't write that, and I don't claim to be an expert. I just shared it because it's relevant to the discussion.

My bad. From your phrasing, it sounded like you did.
Said writer is however entirely transposing Anglo-Saxon ideal and system on our French ones and claiming they are the same which is beyond retarded.

[Minoa]

Anyways, Le Pen's election would further destabilize the EU, and damage the already weak French economy.
As fun as it is to accept the new vogue that globalism is the root of every economic problem, lets not use it as a scapegoat shall we?

Macron has my backing all the way over Le Pen. Its high time for the mainstream to strike back at this silly wave of populism.

At least they don't hate both unlike globalists.

Globalist is too much of a buzz word - globalism is good for economies, in the sense that it lowers prices and encourages competition, which is ultimately better for economies. Issues arise when trade deals benefit multinationals as opposed to the consumer, but even then, that isn't a reason as to why we should adopt protectionism.

Free trade, competitive taxes, and a post-war work ethic really boosted Western Europe after WW2, and I'd hate to see economic growth in France continue to stagnate because of anti-growth policies.

I backed Macron because I take a very dim view on any kind of ethnic discrimination. I have only left Europe for short visits to Asia twice in my life. I am not going to support anything that has the slightest chance of repeating the horrors of the past. Because we are all human beings and we can use our intelligence for the benefit of all (we just have to keep trying). The credibility of FN is already tarnished mostly due to Jean Marie Le-Pen's holocaust views.

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-france ... KKBN16E24F

According to Elabe, Macron continues to close in on Le Pen at 25.5% to 26%, but his supporters should aim to break the deadlock so Macron comes first in both rounds.

[Crylante]

My concern would be her protectionism and economic policies that would hinder growth in an already stagnant French economy.

She's an anti-immigrant socialist like most Eurosceptic candidates and parties.

Actually quite a few of the populist right parties are neoliberal on economics, such as UKIP, Fremskrittspartiet and AfD.

[Novus America]

She's an anti-immigrant socialist like most Eurosceptic candidates and parties.

Actually quite a few of the populist right parties are neoliberal on economics, such as UKIP, Fremskrittspartiet and AfD.

Yes, the populist right is hardly a unified group. You have economically statist anti Americans like the FN and United Russia on one hand, and then you have pro Americans with more classically liberal economics in the case of others like PVV and UKIP. Which are quite different.

Also there is quite a lot of differences on specific issues.

[Theodorex]

One option is a combined fiscal union alongside the monetary union(an idea Europhiles have), which would be absolutely silly, simply because you can't expect Bulgaria and Holland to have the same fiscal policy. The other option is to leave the Eurozone but stay in Schengen and the Single Market, I think that would be beneficial. Maybe a full Frexit isn't desirable, but leaving the Eurozone is favorable for sure.

The idea about fiscal union is not Bulgaria and Holland having the same fiscal policy. That is pretty much what it is now. Fiscal union would mean a central fiscal authority and fiscal transfers between member states. I'd imagine fiscal transfers up to 10% of GDP of member states. This could work in theory but only in theory since people in member states are not willing to give up national sovereignity, minimum wages differ etc. You would need United States of Europe for this. As long as this is not done, the high unemployment will continue in states that cannot net export (all states cannot, it is impossible). Other option they have is send their people to live and work to net exporting states, this has been happening too, young Greek people leave Greece for better job opportunities. This problem cannot be solved in current framework.

So Le pen is the only one who has an economic plan and from what I learned about it, she could deliver. There are other issues that I agree might be important enough not to vote for her. Regardless of that the current mess cannot be fixed with more right wing policy or more left wing policy. Macron is not going to deliver because It cannot be done with the tools that are provided to him in EMU.

As long as the voters in EMU are willing to put up with It, the union will last. The economies of member states keep underperforming. The only option for states with negative trade balances is to do an internal devaluation, lowering wages and austerity to be competitive with net exporters like Germany. It is a burning building with no exits. EMU has the classical problem what currency unions have always had, this is why they have broken up historically.

There are thousands of people who say that nationalism is not an answer and Europe needs reforms when breaking up topic comes up. Yet they usually have no idea what kind of reforms or they convienently ignore the political reality that these reforms would require.

[Major-Tom]

She's an anti-immigrant socialist like most Eurosceptic candidates and parties.

Actually quite a few of the populist right parties are neoliberal on economics, such as UKIP, Fremskrittspartiet and AfD.

But not FN. France is a country marked by lots of protectionist, anti-neoliberal sentiment on all sides of the spectrum. FN has been, and always will be, as economically left as the PS.

[Major-Tom]

One option is a combined fiscal union alongside the monetary union(an idea Europhiles have), which would be absolutely silly, simply because you can't expect Bulgaria and Holland to have the same fiscal policy. The other option is to leave the Eurozone but stay in Schengen and the Single Market, I think that would be beneficial. Maybe a full Frexit isn't desirable, but leaving the Eurozone is favorable for sure.

The idea about fiscal union is not Bulgaria and Holland having the same fiscal policy. That is pretty much what it is now. Fiscal union would mean a central fiscal authority and fiscal transfers between member states. I'd imagine fiscal transfers up to 10% of GDP of member states. This could work in theory but only in theory since people in member states are not willing to give up national sovereignity, minimum wages differ etc. You would need United States of Europe for this. As long as this is not done, the high unemployment will continue in states that cannot net export (all states cannot, it is impossible). Other option they have is send their people to live and work to net exporting states, this has been happening too, young Greek people leave Greece for better job opportunities. This problem cannot be solved in current framework.

So Le pen is the only one who has an economic plan and from what I learned about it, she could deliver. There are other issues that I agree might be important enough not to vote for her. Regardless of that the current mess cannot be fixed with more right wing policy or more left wing policy. Macron is not going to deliver because It cannot be done with the tools that are provided to him in EMU.

As long as the voters in EMU are willing to put up with It, the union will last. The economies of member states keep underperforming. The only option for states with negative trade balances is to do an internal devaluation, lowering wages and austerity to be competitive with net exporters like Germany. It is a burning building with no exits. EMU has the classical problem what currency unions have always had, this is why they have broken up historically.

There are thousands of people who say that nationalism is not an answer and Europe needs reforms when breaking up topic comes up. Yet they usually have no idea what kind of reforms or they convienently ignore the political reality that these reforms would require.

Right, works in theory, but I could see it being a total disaster in practice, most economists could. The Euro simply isn't sustainable, in my view, although aspects of the EU, such as the single market and Schnegen, are beneficial for economies.

Also, Neu Leonstein, I did read your posts and found them very informative, something to think about.

[Major-Tom]

Anyways, Le Pen's election would further destabilize the EU, and damage the already weak French economy.
As fun as it is to accept the new vogue that globalism is the root of every economic problem, lets not use it as a scapegoat shall we?

Macron has my backing all the way over Le Pen. Its high time for the mainstream to strike back at this silly wave of populism.

Globalist is too much of a buzz word - globalism is good for economies, in the sense that it lowers prices and encourages competition, which is ultimately better for economies. Issues arise when trade deals benefit multinationals as opposed to the consumer, but even then, that isn't a reason as to why we should adopt protectionism.

Free trade, competitive taxes, and a post-war work ethic really boosted Western Europe after WW2, and I'd hate to see economic growth in France continue to stagnate because of anti-growth policies.

I backed Macron because I take a very dim view on any kind of ethnic discrimination. I have only left Europe for short visits to Asia twice in my life. I am not going to support anything that has the slightest chance of repeating the horrors of the past. Because we are all human beings and we can use our intelligence for the benefit of all (we just have to keep trying). The credibility of FN is already tarnished mostly due to Jean Marie Le-Pen's holocaust views.

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-france ... KKBN16E24F

According to Elabe, Macron continues to close in on Le Pen at 25.5% to 26%, but his supporters should aim to break the deadlock so Macron comes first in both rounds.

In LePen's defense, she disowned and disenfranchised her father. A lot of French jews, too, support FN. I'd have preferred Fillon or Juppé in regards to immigration policy and economic policy, Macron vs LePen is definitely a battle of lesser of two evils.

[Theodorex]

EU's big four back 'multi-speed' Europehttps://euobserver.com/news/137134

Leaders of the EU's four largest economies threw their weight behind a multi-speed Europe on Monday (6 March) as the European Union prepares for life after Brexit, with rising populism, and an uncertain US strategy over Europe.
The leaders of France, Germany, Italy and Spain met in the palace of Versailles to prepare for a 25 March EU summit in Rome, marking the 60th anniversary of the Treaty of Rome, which gave way for European integration.

German chancellor Angela Merkel, head of the EU's economic powerhouse, said leaders need to find the courage to forge ahead with integration despite opposition from others. Otherwise they risk the fate of the EU.
"We need to have the courage for some countries to go ahead if not everyone wants to participate. A Europe of different speeds is necessary, otherwise we will probably get stuck," Merkel said at a joint press conference.

"If Europe gets stuck and doesn't develop further, then this work of peace may run into danger faster than one might think," she added.

French president Francois Hollande argued that "unity does not mean uniformity".

He called for new forms of cooperation to allow some member states to push ahead quickly in the area of defense and the eurozone, deepening of economic and monetary union, harmonising social policy and tax policy.

Other EU members could opt out of measures intended to deepen integration, Hollande added.


Spanish prime minister Mariano Rajoy and Italy's premier Paolo Gentiloni also supported the idea of a multi-speed Europe.

Rather than admit complete failure, Merkel hopped on the multi-speed bandwagon to make it appear something is being done about problems that cannot be fixed because the nations involved can never agree on what changes to make.

The EU and EMU are flawed and can never be fixed. Merkel finally hopping on the multi-speed bandwagon provides proof.

Can some member states of the EMU agree on eurobonds? No they can't. Can some member states of the EMU that includes Germany fix grievances regarding Germany’s current account surplus? No they can't. Is there anything special about the recent multi-speed announcement that changes anything significant? No there is not.

[The Conez Imperium]

I backed Macron because I take a very dim view on any kind of ethnic discrimination. I have only left Europe for short visits to Asia twice in my life. I am not going to support anything that has the slightest chance of repeating the horrors of the past. Because we are all human beings and we can use our intelligence for the benefit of all (we just have to keep trying). The credibility of FN is already tarnished mostly due to Jean Marie Le-Pen's holocaust views.

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-france ... KKBN16E24F

According to Elabe, Macron continues to close in on Le Pen at 25.5% to 26%, but his supporters should aim to break the deadlock so Macron comes first in both rounds.

In LePen's defense, she disowned and disenfranchised her father. A lot of French jews, too, support FN. I'd have preferred Fillon or Juppé in regards to immigration policy and economic policy, Macron vs LePen is definitely a battle of lesser of two evils.

I can't find any sources at the moment but I do remember reading some newspaper intrigue that depicted FN still harboring some suspicious ties. Was it some sort of conference with some nazi-esque group in Austria?

Anyway, she certainly has made efforts into making her party more presentable.

[Theodorex]

Marine Le Pen LOSES lead as Macron set to CLINCH first round victory, new poll finds http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/776904/Marine-Le-Pen-LOSES-lead-as-Emmanuel-Macron-ROCKETS-to-first-round-victory-new-poll-finds

[Collatis]

Marine Le Pen LOSES lead as Macron set to CLINCH first round victory, new poll finds http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/776904/Marine-Le-Pen-LOSES-lead-as-Emmanuel-Macron-ROCKETS-to-first-round-victory-new-poll-finds

Yeah Macron has been leading in some first round polling, which is pretty sweet. If Le Pen were to finish second in both rounds I'd be pretty happy.