Hillary Clinton could still win the presidency

[Paddy O Fernature]

I can't speak for how Trump ran his campaign, as I literally can count on one hand how many commercials of his I saw during the entire 2016 election here locally. The media bias was pretty much absolute in this regard here.

He was spending campaign funds on anything more than he had to, given that he can pocket what he doesn't spend.

As for your view on Trump and his follows, I can't help but laugh my ass off as you literally are screaming about how horrible they are while doing exactly what you are supposedly decrying in the first place. Textbook definition of Irony, at it's absolute finest.

I'm not screaming at all, literally or otherwise. Your presumptions continue.

Stating the horrible things Trump and his supporters do - things that are public record - is not "doing exactly what (I am) supposedly decrying". It would indeed be irony if I were, but since it isn't you're 0/2.

You again flat out ignore the fact that you are supporting a side that literally flipped 180 from "peace not hate" to openly rioting in the streets overnight, while still trying to prop up that argument that's holding about as much weight as a lead balloon.

Not only Irony, but Hypocrisy now as well.

*Slow clap*

[Paddy O Fernature]

So people should be treated as criminals for wanting a better life here (The American tradition) simply because they did not have the resources to do so legally and had to make the dangerous and not at all easy journey across the border? For having committed no other crime than wanting to have a better life for their families, something everyone wants, and merely not having the proper paperwork?

Absolutely.

Just because I want to better my life and improve my social and economical standings, doesn't give me the right to steal a car for transportation to be used going back and forth to work.

[Corrian]

A registry for immigrants coming from known terrorist hot spots that hate America doesn't seem like a bad or illogical idea, especially considering right now you can get put on a "No fly list" without legal representation and everyone seems to be ok with that.

I certainly don't. All of these things need to be done better.

Border reform also is a solid topic and needs to be addressed to curb the tide of incoming illegal aliens into this country. A wall, either physical or metaphorical, isn't a bad idea. Though I would prefer the money spent on more physical assets then a static wall, such as doubling if not tripling the horribly understaffed and overworked USBP.

There are more Mexicans leaving than coming in.

And I always hated the term "illegal alien".

[East Klent]

He was spending campaign funds on anything more than he had to, given that he can pocket what he doesn't spend.


I'm not screaming at all, literally or otherwise. Your presumptions continue.

Stating the horrible things Trump and his supporters do - things that are public record - is not "doing exactly what (I am) supposedly decrying". It would indeed be irony if I were, but since it isn't you're 0/2.

You again flat out ignore the fact that you are supporting a side that literally flipped 180 from "peace not hate" to openly rioting in the streets overnight, while still trying to prop up that argument that's holding about as much weight as a lead balloon.

Not only Irony, but Hypocrisy now as well.

*Slow clap*

Some members of that side committed those actions. The actions of some do not speak for all. Saying the whole Clinton side rioted is the same as saying all Trump supporters are racist and misogynist. Both are flatly not true.

[Paddy O Fernature]

A registry for immigrants coming from known terrorist hot spots that hate America doesn't seem like a bad or illogical idea, especially considering right now you can get put on a "No fly list" without legal representation and everyone seems to be ok with that.

I certainly don't. All of these things need to be done better.

Border reform also is a solid topic and needs to be addressed to curb the tide of incoming illegal aliens into this country. A wall, either physical or metaphorical, isn't a bad idea. Though I would prefer the money spent on more physical assets then a static wall, such as doubling if not tripling the horribly understaffed and overworked USBP.

There are more Mexicans leaving than coming in.

And I always hated the term "illegal alien".

Won't disagree that things certainly could be done better.

As for more leaving then coming in, it's irrelevant as America isn't a giant revolving door. Just because 5 people leave, doesn't mean that 5 more people magically now have the right to illegally enter the country.

[East Klent]

So people should be treated as criminals for wanting a better life here (The American tradition) simply because they did not have the resources to do so legally and had to make the dangerous and not at all easy journey across the border? For having committed no other crime than wanting to have a better life for their families, something everyone wants, and merely not having the proper paperwork?

Absolutely.

Just because I want to better my life and improve my social and economical standings, doesn't give me the right to steal a car for transportation to be used going back and forth to work.

That is stealing, a physical crime. Those who cross the border have not stolen anything by doing so and are thus committing a political crime, victimless at that.

[Corrian]

You again flat out ignore the fact that you are supporting a side that literally flipped 180 from "peace not hate" to openly rioting in the streets overnight, while still trying to prop up that argument that's holding about as much weight as a lead balloon.

And guess what? As always, it was a minority of people doing the rioting, usually the ones that just want to cause a problem. Not a majority of them, and if I recall, mostly happened in Oakland, though I think other places had problems too. And things getting out of hand in Oakland is not a shock.

[Novus America]

Never underestimate the party's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I mean, I thought this would be a landslide for Clinton. The Democratic Party does really continue to impress.

True, but if the Republicans had run Kasich Rubio, they would have crushed it, instead of barely making it.
Both parties suck at life so much, it is not a matter if the Democrats will screw up in 2020. They will. It is a given. The only question is will the Republicans, who are also going to screw up, screw up worse.

[G-Tech Corporation]

I'm not sure you understand that I'm not supporting Trump, I'm pointing out what the tone of his campaign was. But you can keep arguing with your strawman if it helps you sleep better at night.

No, I'm responding directly to your post, point for point. That's not remotely a strawman. Your support for Trump or lack thereof is immaterial to my response.

So you're saying that Trump said he would bring back jobs just none of the ones making Trump products? Because I certainly don't remember that part of his speeches.

[Ickk]

Trump supporters are not the ones rioting in the streets causing panic and mayhem. They are the very same people who asked for tolerance. I find this ridiculous.

[Novus America]

Absolutely.

Just because I want to better my life and improve my social and economical standings, doesn't give me the right to steal a car for transportation to be used going back and forth to work.

That is stealing, a physical crime. Those who cross the border have not stolen anything by doing so and are thus committing a political crime, victimless at that.

Trespassing is also a crime.

[Chairman Cities]

look listen and learn There Is Not Going To Be Another Demo In Office Face It People The Current Head Of State Was Picked To Calm Down The Big Mess His Predecessor Caused. That Is The Only Reason He Got In Office

[Paddy O Fernature]

Absolutely.

Just because I want to better my life and improve my social and economical standings, doesn't give me the right to steal a car for transportation to be used going back and forth to work.

That is stealing, a physical crime. Those who cross the border have not stolen anything by doing so and are thus committing a political crime, victimless at that.

Are they not in essence stealing citizenship? It wasn't given to them, but they seem to think it suddenly belongs to them just because they are here.

An illegal is still here illegally, thus committing a crime just by existing within the borders of the US, this making them criminals.

This is fucking undeniable fact.

Like it or not, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

[Cymrea]

You again flat out ignore the fact that you are supporting a side that literally flipped 180 from "peace not hate" to openly rioting in the streets overnight, while still trying to prop up that argument that's holding about as much weight as a lead balloon.

Not only Irony, but Hypocrisy now as well.

*Slow clap*

You again flat out ignore the fact that my opposition to Trump is not support of Clinton. And your attempt to turn your hypocrisy around on me with strawmen is the only irony here.

You do exemplify Trump supporters though, I'll give you that.

[Corrian]

I mean, I thought this would be a landslide for Clinton. The Democratic Party does really continue to impress.

True, but if the Republicans had run Kasich Rubio, they would have crushed it, instead of barely making it.
Both parties suck at life so much, it is not a matter if the Democrats will screw up in 2020. They will. It is a given. The only question is will the Republicans, who are also going to screw up, screw up worse.

I'm actually at the point where I don't know if an establishment Republican would have actually done better. Would have Trump's hardcore supporters actually approved of an establishment Republican?

[Novus America]

No, I'm responding directly to your post, point for point. That's not remotely a strawman. Your support for Trump or lack thereof is immaterial to my response.

So you're saying that Trump said he would bring back jobs just none of the ones making Trump products? Because I certainly don't remember that part of his speeches.

Actually he explicitly said he WOULD bring back the ones making Trump products, if the government made the reforms necessary for him to do so profitably. I am not sure I believe it. But he did say it.

[East Klent]

I mean, I thought this would be a landslide for Clinton. The Democratic Party does really continue to impress.

True, but if the Republicans had run Kasich Rubio, they would have crushed it, instead of barely making it.
Both parties suck at life so much, it is not a matter if the Democrats will screw up in 2020. They will. It is a given. The only question is will the Republicans, who are also going to screw up, screw up worse.

Both sides had potentially good candidates this year, but the Dems treated it as a coronation, and the Reps devolved into reality TV.

Now that such attitudes have set a precedent, I do not foresee a reasonable policy based candidate on either side next go-round. You'd have Mr. Personality running for reelection and the Dems would need someone just as showstopping as him.

[Corrian]

Trump supporters are not the ones rioting in the streets causing panic and mayhem. They are the very same people who asked for tolerance. I find this ridiculous.

Again, that is the minority of people who riot, as almost always in every god damn protest. Its a couple of bag eggs taking advantage of it to cause problems. And nobodies been freaking rioting in the streets for weeks.

Also, I guarantee this same thing would be happening if Clinton had won. We're just that divided. Its pretty much happened with every President ever. At least protests in some form. And your side would probably be going "But its not everyone", instead of generalizing us all as out there rioting.

[Novus America]

True, but if the Republicans had run Kasich Rubio, they would have crushed it, instead of barely making it.
Both parties suck at life so much, it is not a matter if the Democrats will screw up in 2020. They will. It is a given. The only question is will the Republicans, who are also going to screw up, screw up worse.

I'm actually at the point where I don't know if an establishment Republican would have actually done better. Would have Trump's hardcore supporters actually approved of an establishment Republican?

Kasich was not seen as too establishment and is popular in the Rust Belt. Jeb! would have been suicide, but Kasich does the Rust Belt populism well, though it a much more subtle manner. Hatred of Clinton would be enough. Trump's supporters did not seem to hate Kasich or Trump, and Rubio was easily reelected in Florida.

Trump also made several major missteps, and could have won by a much larger margin too.

[Cymrea]

No, I'm responding directly to your post, point for point. That's not remotely a strawman. Your support for Trump or lack thereof is immaterial to my response.

So you're saying that Trump said he would bring back jobs just none of the ones making Trump products? Because I certainly don't remember that part of his speeches.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Trump says he'll bring back jobs. And he has made public displays of strongarming companies into not outsourcing jobs. But doing so while having the jobs of his own corporations outsourced - with absolutely no indication that he'll lead by example and bring those jobs back to the U.S. - is hypocritical and deserving of criticism.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

look listen and learn There Is Not Going To Be Another Demo In Office Face It People The Current Head Of State Was Picked To Calm Down The Big Mess His Predecessor Caused. That Is The Only Reason He Got In Office

Stop Capitalizing Every Word In A Sentence. And Using Emojis.

What Big Mess Are You Talking About?

If You Mean Obama Care Then You Should Know That It Is Sticking Around.

Also, How Can You Say That? Is He Going To Shut Down The Democratic Process?

[Cymrea]

So you're saying that Trump said he would bring back jobs just none of the ones making Trump products? Because I certainly don't remember that part of his speeches.

Actually he explicitly said he WOULD bring back the ones making Trump products, if the government made the reforms necessary for him to do so profitably. I am not sure I believe it. But he did say it.

There's always a caveat. "...if I win." If the government makes changes for him to do so profitably. Sincere question: Was Carrier offered that caveat?

[East Klent]

That is stealing, a physical crime. Those who cross the border have not stolen anything by doing so and are thus committing a political crime, victimless at that.

Are they not in essence stealing citizenship? It wasn't given to them, but they seem to think it suddenly belongs to them just because they are here.

An illegal is still here illegally, thus committing a crime just by existing within the borders of the US, this making them criminals.

This is fucking undeniable fact.

Like it or not, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

They can't steal citizenship, that can only be given, hence the "pathway to citizenship" proposals. Yes, technically it makes them criminals, but Rosa Parks not giving up her seat on that bus made her a criminal, did it not?

And while I do not wish to dip into semantics, keep in mind when you say "illegal" you are talking about a human being, and describing a human being as illegal does not have the best historical connotations.

[East Klent]

That is stealing, a physical crime. Those who cross the border have not stolen anything by doing so and are thus committing a political crime, victimless at that.

Trespassing is also a crime.

Touche. Though that is usually associated with private property and government property and usually ends with "Trespassers will be shot."

Also the 'property' in this analogy did originally belong to the Mexican government. I realize we won the war and signed the treaties to receive the land, I'm not using it in my argument, I'm merely adding historical context.

[Eol Sha]

True, but if the Republicans had run Kasich Rubio, they would have crushed it, instead of barely making it.
Both parties suck at life so much, it is not a matter if the Democrats will screw up in 2020. They will. It is a given. The only question is will the Republicans, who are also going to screw up, screw up worse.

I'm actually at the point where I don't know if an establishment Republican would have actually done better. Would have Trump's hardcore supporters actually approved of an establishment Republican?

Most of them probably would have.