Hillary Clinton could still win the presidency

[The Greater German Federal Republic]

Or the US government should enact harsher regulation on the electorals, to ensure that they vote for their party and keep up with the will of the voters.

The will of the people is the Popular Vote so what your saying is Trump should not be President.

You do know that by voters, I mean the voters of their respective parties.

[Socialist Nordia]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

[cut]

The electiral college is broken and undemocratic, but it can still choose to follow the will of the people and vote for Hillary Clinton... So, what say you NSG? Is it time to use this undemocratic institution to uphold democracy in the time being, while we wait to have it abolished?

A) The electoral system is neither broken nor undemocratic,
B) The issue of whether it is democratic or not is largely irrelevant because america is a constitutional democratic republic, a phrase wherein the only noun is "republic",
C) Do you honestly think "the will of the people" is to elect the inestimable Hillary Clinton,
D) If you wanted to more closely follow the will of the people, there are quite a few electoral reforms you could propose that don't walk our nation further down the path of turning into a tyranny by the urban majority,
E) Are you quite aware of the ramifications that this would have on our political system,
F) This is a really good way to tear America even further apart than it already is,
G) I am terrified that you are willing to plunge our nation into even more uncertainty than electing a thug potato to the office of presidency has already done, just so you can win,

and,

H) If I recommended that we make the senate as a whole based on the national popular vote, thereby securing an even more Republican senate (to follow "the will of the people", of course) what would you think of that plan?

A) it is by no means democratic
B) Bear with me here but maybe America should be *gasp* more democratic, regardless of whether we were meant to be a democracy upon being founded.
C) yes, as she received the most votes
D) of course there are other reforms to be made. Instant runoff would be a good one. Regardless, I still want to abolish the electoral college to end tyranny by rural minority.
E) Yes, the GOP lead Congress would freak out about it and move to abolish the electoral college immediately. We'd also see plenty of more protests, but the right to protest is one that America holds dear and not really something I like to complain about.
F) people will be angry, but we're not talking about a civil war here.
G) don't be terrified of random people on the internet. It's not like this will likely happen, sadly.
H) you mean electing the senate by proportional representation? Absolutely, please, I would love for that to happen. I'm not sure where you got your numbers for the senate being even more republican though.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /93598998/

[The Serbian Empire]

Incumbents have a natural advantage.

I'm still trusting the American people to not put Trump back in power for another four years. I just don't think that anything is going to change with the election results, and that we're going to be stuck with him.

You have too much trust in the citizenry.

[Thermodolia]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19


The electiral college is broken and undemocratic, but it can still choose to follow the will of the people and vote for Hillary Clinton. Many Trump supporters and people who don't really like democracy have been vehemently defending the electoral college lately. When you defend the current system, this is a part of it. If electors were to go faithless amen masse and elect Hillary Clinton, it would be fully within the bounds layed out by the constitution. So, what say you NSG? Is it time to use this undemocratic institution to uphold democracy in the time being, while we wait to have it abolished?

I haven't been defending the Electoral College; I've been pushing for its abolition. That said, you cannot change the rules after the game is over. If it was up to popular vote, and not the Electoral College, both Trump and Clinton would've ran their campaigns very differently, and people voting for third parties in "safe states" would've voted differently. You can only change rules for future elections, not for elections that already occurred. Trump won. It's over. Move on.

Actually the rules aren't being changed after the game is over, because the game ain't over yet. There is nothing stopping the electoral college from voting anyone they choose into office we have just trusted that they won't.

[Communist Ylisse]

Let's stop praying for a right wing lunatic, to replace the right wing fascist lunatic, and instead bash some fash.

[Calimama]

Nope. I don't see how you could draw that conclusion.

That Trump does like shit hence meaning bad for the people.

So me saying that I don't think much is going to change with the results and how the electoral college works is somehow me saying that I want the American people stuck with the asshole that is Trump? What?

[Trotskylvania]

The whole electoral college system is undemocratic. Nobody votes for these electors and they are the ones who actually decide who becomes president. We trust that they will follow the will of the people in their state but there is nothing from legally stoping them from doing the opposite. That's what I don't like, that we put way to much trust in an unelected group of individuals who decide the president and could at any time decide that the candidate who the people voted for should not be president.

Well this would be perfect time to do it and do what the Electoral College was designed to do. Prevent someone unqualified from becoming President.

Do you not realize what would happen if you snatched the presidency from the party that controls the Congress and many state governments, with a large and highly belligerent population behind them?

At the very least, the Republican Congress would, like Samson, tear down the temple around them trying to disrupt Clinton's presidency. They'd try to impeach her, and while they'd fail, they'd refuse to pass any budgets or approve any borrowing. This would be a complete calamity. And the very best we could hope for.

The very worst would be civil war.

[Ludina]

So you want America to be messed up for 4 years? What kinda foolish world am I living in?

Don't get me wrong - I'm probably the most anti-Trump person you could possibly meet, but I don't see any chance that Republicans would backtrack on what the voters want and choose Hillary, it just doesn't seem likely.

Why are you anti-Trump anyway? People usually explain that they don't like the racism and sexism - but I don't see his racism, and I don't believe locker room talk should be considered sexist.

So you want America to be messed up for 4 years? What kinda foolish world am I living in?

A petty one where edginess, and forgetting that wishes have consequence are the norm often.

Obviously I should've gotten a computer sooner so I could catch up with this new foolish world I've met.

[Genivaria]

It would be very undemocratic if the Republican electorals would vote for Hillary, since the voters want them to elect Trump, not Clinton.

While concerns about the electoral college being less democratic might be understandable to some degree, I am sure that if Clinton won, it wouldn't be such a topic.

But then again, this is highly unlikely since it would pretty much be the match in a pool of gasoline.

If Clinton hadn't won the popular vote it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
But she did, the people voted and majority chose her.
The fact that the EC can simply overrule the democratic process makes the entire thing a joke.

It is legalized, institutionalized corruption.

[Calimama]

I'm still trusting the American people to not put Trump back in power for another four years. I just don't think that anything is going to change with the election results, and that we're going to be stuck with him.

You have too much trust in the citizenry.

Probably.

[The Greater German Federal Republic]

I haven't been defending the Electoral College; I've been pushing for its abolition. That said, you cannot change the rules after the game is over. If it was up to popular vote, and not the Electoral College, both Trump and Clinton would've ran their campaigns very differently, and people voting for third parties in "safe states" would've voted differently. You can only change rules for future elections, not for elections that already occurred. Trump won. It's over. Move on.

Actually the rules aren't being changed after the game is over, because the game ain't over yet. There is nothing stopping the electoral college from voting anyone they choose into office we have just trusted that they won't.

The Republican electorals voting for Hillary instead would cause the conflict to completely escalate.
Do you really want that?

[San Lumen]

It would be very undemocratic if the Republican electorals would vote for Hillary, since the voters want them to elect Trump, not Clinton.

While concerns about the electoral college being less democratic might be understandable to some degree, I am sure that if Clinton won, it wouldn't be such a topic.

But then again, this is highly unlikely since it would pretty much be the match in a pool of gasoline.

If Clinton hadn't won the popular vote it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
But she did, the people voted and majority chose her.
The fact that the EC can simply overrule the democratic process makes the entire thing a joke.

It is legalized, institutionalized corruption.

and the Electoral college should overrule the election. The popular vote should be what matters.

[Thermodolia]

The whole electoral college system is undemocratic. Nobody votes for these electors and they are the ones who actually decide who becomes president. We trust that they will follow the will of the people in their state but there is nothing from legally stoping them from doing the opposite. That's what I don't like, that we put way to much trust in an unelected group of individuals who decide the president and could at any time decide that the candidate who the people voted for should not be president.

Or the US government should enact harsher regulation on the electorals, to ensure that they vote for their party and keep up with the will of the voters.

The federal government cannot constitutionally do that. Only the state's can do that. As it stands only one state voids the electors votes if they vote against the will of the people in that state. The rest only give them a small fine if that. And several states don't even punish them.

[The Serbian Empire]

Well this would be perfect time to do it and do what the Electoral College was designed to do. Prevent someone unqualified from becoming President.

Do you not realize what would happen if you snatched the presidency from the party that controls the Congress and many state governments, with a large and highly belligerent population behind them?

At the very least, the Republican Congress would, like Samson, tear down the temple around them trying to disrupt Clinton's presidency. They'd try to impeach her, and while they'd fail, they'd refuse to pass any budgets or approve any borrowing. This would be a complete calamity. And the very best we could hope for.

The very worst would be civil war.

If that's what it takes to get rid of an antiquated relic pushing a fascist? Then yes, that's what will need to happen.

[Uxupox]

That Trump does like shit hence meaning bad for the people.

So me saying that I don't think much is going to change with the results and how the electoral college works is somehow me saying that I want the American people stuck with the asshole that is Trump? What?

No you said that hopefully his presidency goes wrong.

[San Lumen]

Actually the rules aren't being changed after the game is over, because the game ain't over yet. There is nothing stopping the electoral college from voting anyone they choose into office we have just trusted that they won't.

The Republican electorals voting for Hillary instead would cause the conflict to completely escalate.
Do you really want that?

What would happen? Civil war? mass shootings on a scale like never before? I doubt it.

[Calimama]

Don't get me wrong - I'm probably the most anti-Trump person you could possibly meet, but I don't see any chance that Republicans would backtrack on what the voters want and choose Hillary, it just doesn't seem likely.

Why are you anti-Trump anyway? People usually explain that they don't like the racism and sexism - but I don't see his racism, and I don't believe locker room talk should be considered sexist.

I never said anything about Trump being racist, nor did I mention anything about his 'locker room talk' (which is a petty fucking justification for what he said).

I disagree with Trump on most - if not all - of his polices, hence why I am anti-Trump.

[Genivaria]

I'm still trusting the American people to not put Trump back in power for another four years. I just don't think that anything is going to change with the election results, and that we're going to be stuck with him.

You have too much trust in the citizenry.

3 months ago I believed that the majority of American people could possibly be stupid enough to put Trump in power, clearly I gave my country too much credit.

[Spainard]

I don't understand though.. does your vote really count? I find it a little bizarre that we would have to sign a petition for a president we want. She did win the popular vote after all.

[Novoslavya]

If you think the protests against Trump being President Elect are bad, imagine what the protests will be if the Electoral College decide to turn their collective backs on two hundred years of democracy and stage what amounts to a coup d'etat - with what would be around 150 men and women substituting their opinion for the MILLIONS of Americans who voted on the 8th of November.

The term "undemocratic" doesn't even begin to describe it - it might be constitutional, but I would imagine it flies in the face of what 99% of the country (and the world) would consider "democratic".

And keep in mind I am a liberal on the left to far left of the political spectrum. I consider the phrase "President Elect Trump" to be one of the most horrible things I have ever heard, and really can not believe people are saying it with a straight face and that it is actually the reality we have to live with. Do NOT think for one second I am a Trump supporter, or that I am happy about what will happen in December and on the 20th of January.

However as bad as I think this new reality might be, compared to the idea of the Electoral College overturning the result on a whim, I would take this reality in a second.

Its what the Electoral College was created to do prevent someone unqualified from taking office. Its what they should do and if his supporters dont like it to darn bad. The popular vote should be what matters not the electoral college.

How is Donald Trump incompetent?

He wants to save parts of Obamacare and try to modify it, he wants to prevent oppressive trade agreements which endanger the workers (not just in the USA, but in other countries too), he wants to move away from the neoliberal agenda.

Most importantly, he does not want the USA to murder people around the planet, which Hillary supports. You Hillary supporters all know that, Trump want to normalize relations with Russia, fight terrorists not governments and keep the troops at home. Liberals in the USA do not seem to care that their mainstream foreign policy is the cause of much suffering in the world, they do not seem to care that their country sponsors criminal armed groups of rebels, while protecting nations which execute people for being atheist or homosexual.

[Free Missouri]

If Clinton hadn't won the popular vote it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
But she did, the people voted and majority chose her.
The fact that the EC can simply overrule the democratic process makes the entire thing a joke.

It is legalized, institutionalized corruption.

and the Electoral college should overrule the election. The popular vote should be what matters.

not when it's a close plurality that any sane system and any system that could constitutionally get through would never accept as a mandate.

there IS no mandate for Hillary Clinton except for idiots out in the streets protesting, rioting, and beating people up.

[San Lumen]

You have too much trust in the citizenry.

3 months ago I believed that the majority of American people could possibly be stupid enough to put Trump in power, clearly I gave my country too much credit.

I believed the same thing. Clearly i was wrong. Im so ashamed of my country. I will never forgive it nor will i ever look at it the same way again.

[Liriena]

I just got even more disgusted wth humanity.

Hey, don't be that way.

[Genivaria]

If Clinton hadn't won the popular vote it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
But she did, the people voted and majority chose her.
The fact that the EC can simply overrule the democratic process makes the entire thing a joke.

It is legalized, institutionalized corruption.

and the Electoral college should overrule the election. The popular vote should be what matters.

If the popular vote were what mattered than the EC wouldn't fucking exist, the EC got us into this mess and it won't get us out of it.

[The Serbian Empire]

Its what the Electoral College was created to do prevent someone unqualified from taking office. Its what they should do and if his supporters dont like it to darn bad. The popular vote should be what matters not the electoral college.

How is Donald Trump incompetent?

He wants to save parts of Obamacare and try to modify it, he wants to prevent oppressive trade agreements which endanger the workers (not just in the USA, but in other countries too), he wants to move away from the neoliberal agenda.

Most importantly, he does not want the USA to murder people around the planet, which Hillary supports. You Hillary supporters all know that, Trump want to normalize relations with Russia, fight terrorists not governments and keep the troops at home. Liberals in the USA do not seem to care that their mainstream foreign policy is the cause of much suffering in the world, they do not seem to care that their country sponsors criminal armed groups of rebels, while protecting nations which execute people for being atheist or homosexual.

The Republicans back these same Saudis you speak of. The best thing that could happen is that Trump sides with Russian and Iran and declares war on the Saudis.