Hillary Clinton could still win the presidency

[Reploid Productions]

By the will of about a quarter of the people. Most people didn't vote, and I don't fucking blame them. Unless you want to install compulsory voting (which isn't a bad idea in my books) your will of the people idea's pretty baseless.

I think if we setup some secure method of smartphone voting, you'd get numbers near to compulsory numbers.

Considering we can't even get in-person electronic voting machines suitably reliable, I have my doubts about being able to set up a sufficiently secure/reliable vote-by-app thing going. <_<

[Benuty]

The people on twitter with that hashtag need to grow the fuck up. Shocker the media talked out of its ass. Life isn't fucking fair so get over it. You think life was fair when my twin died, and their remains tampered with me in the womb?

Now I have to take medicine everyday to keep my body running normally. Life isn't fucking fair, and your tears are only fueling my ventures in the local salt mine.

I am joking. Making a comparison to the #notmypresident movement. Sorry. Now I feel bad.

I was referring to the hashtag #notmypresident.

[Calladan]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

On December 19, the Electors of the Electoral College will cast their ballots. If they all vote the way their states voted, Donald Trump will win. However, they can vote for Hillary Clinton if they choose. Even in states where that is not allowed, their vote would still be counted, they would simply pay a small fine - which we can be sure Clinton supporters will be glad to pay!
We are calling on the Electors to ignore their states' votes and cast their ballots for Secretary Clinton. Why?
Mr. Trump is unfit to serve. His scapegoating of so many Americans, and his impulsivity, bullying, lying, admitted history of sexual assault, and utter lack of experience make him a danger to the Republic.
Secretary Clinton WON THE POPULAR VOTE and should be President.
Hillary won the popular vote. The only reason Trump "won" is because of the Electoral College.
But the Electoral College can actually give the White House to either candidate. So why not use this most undemocratic of our institutions to ensure a democratic result?
SHE WON THE POPULAR VOTE.
There is no reason Trump should be President.
"It's the 'People's Will'"
No. She won the popular vote.
"Our system of government under our Constitution says he wins"
No. Our Constitution says the Electors choose.
"Too many states prohibit 'Faithless Electors'"
24 states bind electors. If electors vote against their party, they usually pay a fine. And people get mad. But they can vote however they want and there is no legal means to stop them in most states.

The electiral college is broken and undemocratic, but it can still choose to follow the will of the people and vote for Hillary Clinton. Many Trump supporters and people who don't really like democracy have been vehemently defending the electoral college lately. When you defend the current system, this is a part of it. If electors were to go faithless amen masse and elect Hillary Clinton, it would be fully within the bounds layed out by the constitution. So, what say you NSG? Is it time to use this undemocratic institution to uphold democracy in the time being, while we wait to have it abolished?

If you think the protests against Trump being President Elect are bad, imagine what the protests will be if the Electoral College decide to turn their collective backs on two hundred years of democracy and stage what amounts to a coup d'etat - with what would be around 150 men and women substituting their opinion for the MILLIONS of Americans who voted on the 8th of November.

The term "undemocratic" doesn't even begin to describe it - it might be constitutional, but I would imagine it flies in the face of what 99% of the country (and the world) would consider "democratic".

And keep in mind I am a liberal on the left to far left of the political spectrum. I consider the phrase "President Elect Trump" to be one of the most horrible things I have ever heard, and really can not believe people are saying it with a straight face and that it is actually the reality we have to live with. Do NOT think for one second I am a Trump supporter, or that I am happy about what will happen in December and on the 20th of January.

However as bad as I think this new reality might be, compared to the idea of the Electoral College overturning the result on a whim, I would take this reality in a second.

[Galloism]

I think if we setup some secure method of smartphone voting, you'd get numbers near to compulsory numbers.

That might be a good idea if you could get it to work.

But here in Oz we get really high turnout from threatening small fines, and I suppose you might say heavy social expectation. And we use paper btw.

One of the things I would like to see is automatic voter registration. Every person becomes registered when they turn 18. We could send em a little card in the mail.

[Benuty]

You know I don't recall this type of protest at all when Romney lost. People stated it, but they mainly petitioned for secession, and ranted online rather than protested like this.

That's because Romney lost by the electoral college and by the will of the people. Hillary won by the will of the people, but it seems she is about to lose by the electoral college.

About to?

From what I saw on election night they might as well have lost it.

[Galloism]

I think if we setup some secure method of smartphone voting, you'd get numbers near to compulsory numbers.

Considering we can't even get in-person electronic voting machines suitably reliable, I have my doubts about being able to set up a sufficiently secure/reliable vote-by-app thing going. <_<

We would have to <gasp> spend some money to design it.

[Libertypendence Park]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19

[cut]

The electiral college is broken and undemocratic, but it can still choose to follow the will of the people and vote for Hillary Clinton... So, what say you NSG? Is it time to use this undemocratic institution to uphold democracy in the time being, while we wait to have it abolished?

A) The electoral system is neither broken nor undemocratic,
B) The issue of whether it is democratic or not is largely irrelevant because america is a constitutional democratic republic, a phrase wherein the only noun is "republic",
C) Do you honestly think "the will of the people" is to elect the inestimable Hillary Clinton,
D) If you wanted to more closely follow the will of the people, there are quite a few electoral reforms you could propose that don't walk our nation further down the path of turning into a tyranny by the urban majority,
E) Are you quite aware of the ramifications that this would have on our political system,
F) This is a really good way to tear America even further apart than it already is,
G) I am terrified that you are willing to plunge our nation into even more uncertainty than electing a thug potato to the office of presidency has already done, just so you can win,

and,

H) If I recommended that we make the senate as a whole based on the national popular vote, thereby securing an even more Republican senate (to follow "the will of the people", of course) what would you think of that plan?

[Genivaria]

Putting it in the hands of the EC and expecting them to elect a Dem is beyond naive, the EC is by definition partisan and votes on party labels not positions or principles.

[Socialist Nordia]

https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19


The electiral college is broken and undemocratic, but it can still choose to follow the will of the people and vote for Hillary Clinton. Many Trump supporters and people who don't really like democracy have been vehemently defending the electoral college lately. When you defend the current system, this is a part of it. If electors were to go faithless amen masse and elect Hillary Clinton, it would be fully within the bounds layed out by the constitution. So, what say you NSG? Is it time to use this undemocratic institution to uphold democracy in the time being, while we wait to have it abolished?

If you think the protests against Trump being President Elect are bad, imagine what the protests will be if the Electoral College decide to turn their collective backs on two hundred years of democracy and stage what amounts to a coup d'etat - with what would be around 150 men and women substituting their opinion for the MILLIONS of Americans who voted on the 8th of November.

The term "undemocratic" doesn't even begin to describe it - it might be constitutional, but I would imagine it flies in the face of what 99% of the country (and the world) would consider "democratic".

And keep in mind I am a liberal on the left to far left of the political spectrum. I consider the phrase "President Elect Trump" to be one of the most horrible things I have ever heard, and really can not believe people are saying it with a straight face and that it is actually the reality we have to live with. Do NOT think for one second I am a Trump supporter, or that I am happy about what will happen in December and on the 20th of January.

However as bad as I think this new reality might be, compared to the idea of the Electoral College overturning the result on a whim, I would take this reality in a second.

Hillary Clinton received the largest number of votes, so her victory would be the most democratic result possible without knowing how third party voters would have went in a runoff. The undemocratic option would be to elect Trump despite him not receiving the most votes.

[Liriena]

As much as Trump's future presidency worries me, and as much as the possibility of a Pence presidency terrifies me, I doubt this will go anywhere. Even though Clinton won the popular vote, if the electors decided to go faithless and elect her instead of Trump they would only add fuel to the fire.

Right wingers generally don't have a habit of rioting in the streets.

Indeed. They prefer to move in smaller groups and attack vulnerable individuals.

[Libertypendence Park]

Considering we can't even get in-person electronic voting machines suitably reliable, I have my doubts about being able to set up a sufficiently secure/reliable vote-by-app thing going. <_<

We would have to <gasp> spend some money to design it.

Maybe it'll fit within that sweet-tactic $1,000,000,000,000.00 stimulus package we'll be getting soon, if our president elect has his way.

[Bakery Hill]

That might be a good idea if you could get it to work.

But here in Oz we get really high turnout from threatening small fines, and I suppose you might say heavy social expectation. And we use paper btw.

One of the things I would like to see is automatic voter registration. Every person becomes registered when they turn 18. We could send em a little card in the mail.

Either way, you'd have a much better country if you got political participation up and/by eliminating that rigid two party system. I reckon plenty of people stayed home because they hated Trump but couldn't vote for Clinton.

[Thermodolia]

The cubs are #NotMyWorldChamps. We should give the championship to Indiana.

Basically what's being said

Not quite. Clinton won the popular vote while Trump possibly won the Electoral College. There is nothing within the rules that say the Electoral College can't over turn what the people voted for.

[Trotskylvania]

You wanna know how to make a bad situation worse?

This is Exhibit A.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Yeah dont see it happening.

[Free Missouri]

That might be a good idea if you could get it to work.

But here in Oz we get really high turnout from threatening small fines, and I suppose you might say heavy social expectation. And we use paper btw.

One of the things I would like to see is automatic voter registration. Every citizen becomes registered when they turn 18. We could send em a little card in the mail.

Fixed that for you, because you are either implying that resident aliens/illegal aliens/immigrants aren't people, or that you're going to give them the vote, both of which would be unconstitutional and against the good faith of the country.

[Libertypendence Park]

Hillary Clinton received the largest number of votes, so her victory would be the most democratic result possible without knowing how third party voters would have went in a runoff. The undemocratic option would be to elect Trump despite him not receiving the most votes.

Please explain slowly and cautiously why a Clinton presidency would be the "democratic" result, despite her being objectively the least respected presidential nominee in the history of the United States.

[Petrolheadia]

I don't support Trump, nor the electoral college.

However, it is extremely unfair to change the system during an election. Once the election starts, the choosing system shall stay clear and solid.

And remember,,the voting ain't over. There are still 10 million or so votes to be counted.

[The Serbian Empire]

Oh, and in a nation where instead of one big national election, we have 51 separate elections to determine who will be President, the popular vote does not mean shit.

Why even have elections with how the system's rigged from within the primaries.

[Bakery Hill]

Basically what's being said

Not quite. Clinton won the popular vote while Trump possibly won the Electoral College. There is nothing within the rules that say the Electoral College can't over turn what the people voted for.

Plenty of rules in politics aren't written, they're customary, and often just as important.

[Trotskylvania]

One of the things I would like to see is automatic voter registration. Every citizen becomes registered when they turn 18. We could send em a little card in the mail.

Fixed that for you, because you are either implying that resident aliens/illegal aliens/immigrants aren't people, or that you're going to give them the vote, both of which would be unconstitutional and against the good faith of the country.

No, there is no federal constitutional requirement that persons need to be a citizen to vote. It wasn't until circa 1920 that citizenship became a requirement to vote in the United States. Prior, in nearly every state all one had to be was a permanent resident.

[Calimama]

Just give it a rest already. Like I've said in a previous thread, the electoral college is an outdated and broken system, but it is how it is, and Trump won the presidency. The best thing we can hope for now is that he doesn't get reelected.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

This is pathetic. No need to be such sore loosers and to beg people to cheat just so you could win.

It's actually not cheating from a rules standpoint. It's just a shitty thing to do.

You know, like giving victory to the loser.

uhuh, except the Electoral college was setup to prevent populist demogogues and tyrants from taking power.

I would say this vote counts as that scenario.

[Bakery Hill]

One of the things I would like to see is automatic voter registration. Every citizen becomes registered when they turn 18. We could send em a little card in the mail.

Fixed that for you, because you are either implying that resident aliens/illegal aliens/immigrants aren't people, or that you're going to give them the vote, both of which would be unconstitutional and against the good faith of the country.

Someone's got a bee in their bonnet.

[Petrolheadia]

Hillary Clinton received the largest number of votes, so her victory would be the most democratic result possible without knowing how third party voters would have went in a runoff. The undemocratic option would be to elect Trump despite him not receiving the most votes.

Please explain slowly and cautiously why a Clinton presidency would be the "democratic" result, despite her being objectively the least respected presidential nominee in the history of the United States.

Well, as for now, Clinton is winning the popular vote.

However, it may change, as there are still ca. 10 million votes to count.