The State of the Democratic Party Post-2016

[Novus America]

Only a third of Americans have a positive view of socialism, and only a few more than that want universal healthcare. Hard to win when the two things your campaign promises are almost as unpopular as George W. Bush. He also would of done pretty poorly in Florida, considering he's defended Castro more than a few times. Cuban Americans would of turned out higher, and gone from like 65% R, to 70%-75%+. And if the GOP were smart, they would hammer him over his hypocrisy on taxes, and helping the poor. Plus the "Global warming causes terrorism" thing.

Wouldn't have mattered how the Cubans went, because Florida went R anyway.

I believe Bernie is a weak candidate, but it has nothing to do with his ideology, but how he frames it. Embracing "socialism" openly was kind of stupid.

My problem is he says he wants the Nordic model but does not seem to understand it (when did they ever break up the banks for example? They combine an extensive welfare state with a pro business environment to finance it) or the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy.

Sure they sound similar and there is some overlap but they are not interchangeable terms and he should know this (even though post Cold War several Democratic Socialist parties while still claiming to be democratic socialist became social democratic).

If he wants the Danish model (I prefer the Swiss but eh) fine. But maybe he should try to understand it first. Denmark is not socialist.

[Papal Republics]

Well, identity politics and liberal economic policies don't work.

That's why Democrats have been walloped since 2010. People can't find jobs, all the while Obama is negotiating trade deals that lead to more outsourcing. Their insurance premiums are sky high and the deductibles make their plans junk. Don't have a plan? You have to pay a penalty to Your Friendly Neighborhood IRS. The working poor don't have opportunities to send their kids to better schools and are stuck in high-crime and low-job areas. 1 out of 5 dollars in your income goes to taxes at all levels of government. Private businesses that are owned by religious folks are forced to violate their conscience in the name of non-discrimination, even when gay couples can find other establishments that would serve them. Meanwhile, Social Security is set to run out of money by the 2030's but Democrats refuse to allow younger people to opt out of the system and determine their own retirement futures. Debt is soaring and people are actually pushing for more government programs.

Trump is a narcissistic and disagreeable wrench. There's no denying that. But his conservative economic plans and message to people who have been hurting gave us hope. Why do you think a higher percentage of blacks, Hispanics, and the poor voted Republican in 2016 than in past years? The message resonated. And what did Republicans run on? They ran on lowering taxes, school choice, deregulation (which will lead to more jobs), more policing in crime-ridden areas, and true religious freedom. All things that would help Americans.

Obama and Democrats had two full years to ram through their agenda. And what they did failed. It's time to move on.

[USS Monitor]

Well, identity politics and liberal economic policies don't work.

That's why Democrats have been walloped since 2010. People can't find jobs, all the while Obama is negotiating trade deals that lead to more outsourcing. Their insurance premiums are sky high and the deductibles make their plans junk. Don't have a plan? You have to pay a penalty to Your Friendly Neighborhood IRS. The working poor don't have opportunities to send their kids to better schools and are stuck in high-crime and low-job areas. 1 out of 5 dollars in your income goes to taxes at all levels of government. Private businesses that are owned by religious folks are forced to violate their conscience in the name of non-discrimination, even when gay couples can find other establishments that would serve them. Meanwhile, Social Security is set to run out of money by the 2030's but Democrats refuse to allow younger people to opt out of the system and determine their own retirement futures. Debt is soaring and people are actually pushing for more government programs.

Trump is a narcissistic and disagreeable wrench. There's no denying that. But his conservative economic plans and message to people who have been hurting gave us hope. Why do you think a higher percentage of blacks, Hispanics, and the poor voted Republican in 2016 than in past years? The message resonated. And what did Republicans run on? They ran on lowering taxes, school choice, deregulation (which will lead to more jobs), more policing in crime-ridden areas, and true religious freedom. All things that would help Americans.

Obama and Democrats had two full years to ram through their agenda. And what they did failed. It's time to move on.

TIL: Banning Muslims is True Religious Freedom.

[Gauthier]

Well, identity politics and liberal economic policies don't work.

That's why Democrats have been walloped since 2010. People can't find jobs, all the while Obama is negotiating trade deals that lead to more outsourcing. Their insurance premiums are sky high and the deductibles make their plans junk. Don't have a plan? You have to pay a penalty to Your Friendly Neighborhood IRS. The working poor don't have opportunities to send their kids to better schools and are stuck in high-crime and low-job areas. 1 out of 5 dollars in your income goes to taxes at all levels of government. Private businesses that are owned by religious folks are forced to violate their conscience in the name of non-discrimination, even when gay couples can find other establishments that would serve them. Meanwhile, Social Security is set to run out of money by the 2030's but Democrats refuse to allow younger people to opt out of the system and determine their own retirement futures. Debt is soaring and people are actually pushing for more government programs.

Trump is a narcissistic and disagreeable wrench. There's no denying that. But his conservative economic plans and message to people who have been hurting gave us hope. Why do you think a higher percentage of blacks, Hispanics, and the poor voted Republican in 2016 than in past years? The message resonated. And what did Republicans run on? They ran on lowering taxes, school choice, deregulation (which will lead to more jobs), more policing in crime-ridden areas, and true religious freedom. All things that would help Americans.

Obama and Democrats had two full years to ram through their agenda. And what they did failed. It's time to move on.

TIL: Banning Muslims is True Religious Freedom.

Freedom from Those Dirty Durka-Durkas, duh.

[Cattle Mutilators]

The BLM should be considered a terrorist organization because in reality that's what it is. I consider it an equal to the Black panther party.

Non-responsive. Tell me why blacks demonstrating against the excessive use of force by police is "terrorism". Or should blacks just shut up and bury their dead?

[Gauthier]

The BLM should be considered a terrorist organization because in reality that's what it is. I consider it an equal to the Black panther party.

Non-responsive. Tell me why blacks demonstrating against the excessive use of force by police is "terrorism". Or should blacks just shut up and bury their dead?

Because assholes who assault police like Micah Johnson were obviously members of BLM and ordered to do so by the leadership, duh.

[Torkalia]

Well, identity politics and liberal economic policies don't work.

That's why Democrats have been walloped since 2010. People can't find jobs, all the while Obama is negotiating trade deals that lead to more outsourcing. Their insurance premiums are sky high and the deductibles make their plans junk. Don't have a plan? You have to pay a penalty to Your Friendly Neighborhood IRS. The working poor don't have opportunities to send their kids to better schools and are stuck in high-crime and low-job areas. 1 out of 5 dollars in your income goes to taxes at all levels of government. Private businesses that are owned by religious folks are forced to violate their conscience in the name of non-discrimination, even when gay couples can find other establishments that would serve them. Meanwhile, Social Security is set to run out of money by the 2030's but Democrats refuse to allow younger people to opt out of the system and determine their own retirement futures. Debt is soaring and people are actually pushing for more government programs.

Trump is a narcissistic and disagreeable wrench. There's no denying that. But his conservative economic plans and message to people who have been hurting gave us hope. Why do you think a higher percentage of blacks, Hispanics, and the poor voted Republican in 2016 than in past years? The message resonated. And what did Republicans run on? They ran on lowering taxes, school choice, deregulation (which will lead to more jobs), more policing in crime-ridden areas, and true religious freedom. All things that would help Americans.

Obama and Democrats had two full years to ram through their agenda. And what they did failed. It's time to move on.

I mean you could stop pretending the GOP doesn't do identity politics too. It's just this time they won.

[Romalae]

Meanwhile, Social Security is set to run out of money by the 2030's

On this point, to be clear, the projected 2034 Social Security trust fund depletion means that it'll be able to pay out 79% of its scheduled benefits from then on, as opposed to 100%. Whenever I hear people make the point that Social Security is going to run out of money, I feel like it gives readers the impression that it won't be able to pay out any of its scheduled benefits.

[Torkalia]

Meanwhile, Social Security is set to run out of money by the 2030's

On this point, to be clear, the projected 2034 Social Security trust fund depletion means that it'll be able to pay out 79% of its scheduled benefits from then on, as opposed to 100%. Whenever I hear people make the point that Social Security is going to run out of money, I feel like it gives readers the impression that it won't be able to pay out any of its scheduled benefits.

I mean that's a pretty big fucking deal. It would start to collapse when it's no longer paying some people.

[Romalae]

On this point, to be clear, the projected 2034 Social Security trust fund depletion means that it'll be able to pay out 79% of its scheduled benefits from then on, as opposed to 100%. Whenever I hear people make the point that Social Security is going to run out of money, I feel like it gives readers the impression that it won't be able to pay out any of its scheduled benefits.

I mean that's a pretty big fucking deal. It would start to collapse when it's no longer paying some people.

Yeah, the prognosis seems rather dire. But I just feel compelled to clarify the wonkish details.

[Collatis]

Like, oh, I don't know... maybe his inability to address racism as a problem without immediately going off on some riff about how it's really all a consequence of income inequality. Socialists gobble that shit up ("Capitalism is inherently racist!"), but most black voters don't believe that we'd have any less racism under socialism, unless we actually made an effort to combat racism per se.

Eventually, Bernie figured out that he had to talk about the problems of the black community as being specific to the black community, and not just trying to tell them that poor white folks have it every bit as bad. But by then, the Southern primaries had all been run, and the damage was done; there was simply no way for Bernie to catch up after that.

I don't buy most of this argument. Sanders clearly addressed racism as a problem in and of itself, he just didn't focus on it as much as he could (and maybe should) have. Sanders was never going to win the black vote, but he did the best that he could. The African-American community has long had strong ties with the Clintons, and it took an actual black man running for the nomination to challenge their loyalty. Bill Clinton wasn't called "the first black President" for nothing. It should be noted that Sanders won black millennials, a group that do not know the Clintons the same way their parents might have.

Five easy steps for the Dems to win the Whitehouse, and congress in the next four years.
1.Nominate stronger, and actually competent candidates. Hillary was a terrible choice. She has an almost incredible ability to blow large leads. The only reason she was her first senate race is because A. It's New York. And B. Her opponent was even more useless at campaigning than she is. Jim Webb would of beat Trump easily.

Was Hillary a flawed candidate? Absolutely. But she also has many strengths, and nearly won. And to say that Jim Webb could have won the nomination, much less beaten anyone, is laughable at best.

2. Don't be afraid to make a play for working class whites. If the election of Jim Justice proves anything, It's that coal country is willing to listen. Assuming you're not telling them they should live off food stamps, and unemployment benefits because "muh environment". West Virginia was the ultimate new deal state. There's no reason why Dems shouldn't be able to make a come back, if they keep silent on the coal issue. Save that for when you win.

Jim Justice wasn't even a Democrat until the day he registered. To win West Virginia again the Democrats would have to go against their fundamental values and principles. It wouldn't be enough to just drop the environment as an issue (which would be wrong regardless). Too much damage has already been done. However, I don't think your overall message is wrong. It's just that the Democrats should be applying that strategy in places like Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Iowa, not one of the most Republican states in the nation.

3. Expand your campaign beyond "if you don't vote for us you're an evil racist that hates women!" Attacking someone is not how you get them to see your side of it. Southern Democrats in 1870's and 1880's South Carolina learned this. They silenced the rhetoric, and instead went to Black voters. They promised to clean up the corruption in the state, and won.

Firstly, that's not what the campaign said at all, and I don't see how anyone could possibly think that. Secondly, the situations in modern day and 19th century Reconstructionist South Carolina are so incredibly different, and your analogy is just way off.

4. Focus on bringing up minority turn out. In both 2008, and 2012, Black voters had a higher turnout rate than White ones. That played a huge role in Obama's victories. Don't rely on a rapper to do it for you either. Go to major cities, and actually campaign. Tell them what you plan to do to help them. Bruce Rauner did it, and he overran Romney by 5-6% in Chicago, and even more in the suburbs. It would work even better for A dem.

Half of what the Clinton campaign did was focus on minority turn out. They arguably campaigned in major cities too much, when they should have been going to places like Michigan and Wisconsin.

Only a third of Americans have a positive view of socialism, and only a few more than that want universal healthcare. Hard to win when the two things your campaign promises are almost as unpopular as George W. Bush.

A considerable majority of Americans support universal healthcare, not to mention 41% of Republicans.

[The Black Forrest]

Well, identity politics and liberal economic policies don't work.

Are the Republicans going to stop playing identity politics?

That's why Democrats have been walloped since 2010. People can't find jobs,

*shrugs* my wife and several friends and associates returned to work after Obama.

all the while Obama is negotiating trade deals that lead to more outsourcing.

Hmmm. You probably weren't even born during St. Reagans watch. The era of downsizing right sizing.

Their insurance premiums are sky high and the deductibles make their plans junk.

Not really. Premiums have increased sure but they were going up much more (at least for me) when the "free market" was in play. It has gone up more recently which I think was due to something not being renewed.

Don't have a plan? You have to pay a penalty to Your Friendly Neighborhood IRS.

Versus before. You have a pre-existing condition, you can't have a plan.

The ranks of the uninsured were increasing every month before the ACA.

Don't get me wrong. ACA has it's problems (which the Republicans had a hand in), but it's still a plan. You can fix the bad pieces.

Even in it's current form it's still better then the vaporware the republicans have.

The working poor don't have opportunities to send their kids to better schools and are stuck in high-crime and low-job areas. 1 out of 5 dollars in your income goes to taxes at all levels of government.

So? This is caused by the democrats?

Private businesses that are owned by religious folks are forced to violate their conscience in the name of non-discrimination,

*shrugs* if you are too emotional about icky gays, then you should have a Net business. But, that would be a problem because you can't descrimate as you wouldn't meet the customers.

even when gay couples can find other establishments that would serve them.

You should have to. Money is money. I am sure religous people would be all happy to be denied service simply because they believed in *insert religion*

Religoius Freedom doesn't give you the right to be an asshole without repercussions.

Meanwhile, Social Security is set to run out of money by the 2030's but Democrats refuse to allow younger people to opt out of the system and determine their own retirement futures.

OK. You don't understand how SS works.

Younger people have many ways to set their retirement future.

Debt is soaring and people are actually pushing for more government programs.

Do you even know why?

Trump is a narcissistic and disagreeable wrench. There's no denying that.

You are being nice.

But his conservative economic plans and message to people who have been hurting gave us hope.

So? You bought an empty promise of hope? PT Barnium was right. *sighs* It's fascinating reading a few articles where the Trumpists are thinking he won't touch their insurance their social programs..

So how is that swamp draining going?

Is Hillary in Prison?

Why do you think a higher percentage of blacks, Hispanics, and the poor voted Republican in 2016 than in past years?

Not having the right message. As Bidon commented Hillary didn't know why she was running. Add in the attitude of not having to worry about safe groups or states.

The message resonated. And what did Republicans run on? They ran on lowering taxes,

The debt is going to be reduced how?

school choice,

Vouchers don't have a good record at the moment. I forget the other state but the current person slated for the department of education used them and the education levels declined.

Vouchers are NOT going to get the poor kids into great schools.

deregulation (which will lead to more jobs),

Some but the majority will be overseas. So far Trump has "saved" maybe 100 jobs.

more policing in crime-ridden areas,

If you are reducing taxes.....

and true religious freedom.

You already have that.

All things that would help Americans.

Some Americans...sure....and guess what. I bet you won't be one of them.

Obama and Democrats had two full years to ram through their agenda. And what they did failed. It's time to move on.[/quote]

[The Black Forrest]

On this point, to be clear, the projected 2034 Social Security trust fund depletion means that it'll be able to pay out 79% of its scheduled benefits from then on, as opposed to 100%. Whenever I hear people make the point that Social Security is going to run out of money, I feel like it gives readers the impression that it won't be able to pay out any of its scheduled benefits.

I mean that's a pretty big fucking deal. It would start to collapse when it's no longer paying some people.

So. How much does the average person get from SS?

[Farnhamia]

I mean that's a pretty big fucking deal. It would start to collapse when it's no longer paying some people.

So. How much does the average person get from SS?

The average last year was a bit over $2600 a month at full retirement age. It depends on how much you paid in and when you retire. The longer you wait, the more you get.

[Uxupox]

The BLM should be considered a terrorist organization because in reality that's what it is. I consider it an equal to the Black panther party.

Non-responsive. Tell me why blacks demonstrating against the excessive use of force by police is "terrorism". Or should blacks just shut up and bury their dead?

When you act in a violent manner it isn't a protest but an act of terrorism akin to the methods used by the panthers 40 years ago.

[Gauthier]

Non-responsive. Tell me why blacks demonstrating against the excessive use of force by police is "terrorism". Or should blacks just shut up and bury their dead?

When you act in a non-violent manner it isn't a protest but an act of terrorism akin to the methods used by the panthers 40 years ago.

So acting in a nonviolent manner is terrorism now? Well, feelings matter more than facts.

[MERIZoC]

Non-responsive. Tell me why blacks demonstrating against the excessive use of force by police is "terrorism". Or should blacks just shut up and bury their dead?

When you act in a violent manner it isn't a protest but an act of terrorism akin to the methods used by the panthers 40 years ago.

Getting murdered by the FBI is an act of terrorism.

[Uxupox]

When you act in a violent manner it isn't a protest but an act of terrorism akin to the methods used by the panthers 40 years ago.

Getting murdered by the FBI is an act of terrorism.

I wouldn't say no to that.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Non-responsive. Tell me why blacks demonstrating against the excessive use of force by police is "terrorism". Or should blacks just shut up and bury their dead?

When you act in a violent manner it isn't a protest but an act of terrorism akin to the methods used by the panthers 40 years ago.

I don't think the original Panthers ever really did anything violent.

I might be wrong of course but nothing comes to mind.

[Uxupox]

When you act in a violent manner it isn't a protest but an act of terrorism akin to the methods used by the panthers 40 years ago.

I don't think the original Panthers ever really did anything violent.

I might be wrong of course but nothing comes to mind.

I'd say the same about the original Taliban unto which they started as protest in the form of Afghani students.

[MERIZoC]

I don't think the original Panthers ever really did anything violent.

I might be wrong of course but nothing comes to mind.

I'd say the same about the original Taliban unto which they started as protest in the form of Afghani students.

Oh yeah I remember when the black panthers denied women education and started chopping off hands.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I don't think the original Panthers ever really did anything violent.

I might be wrong of course but nothing comes to mind.

I'd say the same about the original Taliban unto which they started as protest in the form of Afghani students.

Only difference being the Black Panthers didn't morph into an extremist group that overthrew a government and harbored terrorists.

[Uxupox]

I'd say the same about the original Taliban unto which they started as protest in the form of Afghani students.

Oh yeah I remember when the black panthers denied women education and started chopping off hands.

I'd say the same about the original Taliban unto which they started as protest in the form of Afghani students.

Only difference being the Black Panthers didn't morph into an extremist group that overthrew a government and harbored terrorists.

Who knows what exactly would have happened with that terrorist group if they hadn't been disintegrated with their approval of ruthless Maoism.

[Neuwland]

I'm not a liberal or believe in the Democrat's positions at all but right now I have far more respect for you all then the Republicans and your weariness of Russia.

[MERIZoC]

Oh yeah I remember when the black panthers denied women education and started chopping off hands.

Only difference being the Black Panthers didn't morph into an extremist group that overthrew a government and harbored terrorists.

Who knows what exactly would have happened with that terrorist group if they hadn't been disintegrated with their approval of ruthless Maoism.

More breakfast programs?