The State of the Democratic Party Post-2016

[Sanctissima]

The same can be said of the Dems.

This back and forth tit-for-tat between the parties is getting the US nowhere.

Obama wasn't bad, but it would still be nice if things were less polarized and if the two-party system was not so entrenched.

Obama was mediocre. He will be remembered as America's first Black president, and little more. He had charisma, but that was about it.

The reason for the entrenchment is due to a lack of willingness for compromise between the two parties. American federal politics have always been a bipartisan system, but that didn't prevent shit getting done in the past because both sides were usually willing to at least try and work together. If the Dems and Republicans would just lighten up a little and give some leeway on their positions, the situation would be more amenable.

[Salandriagado]

Obama wasn't bad, but it would still be nice if things were less polarized and if the two-party system was not so entrenched.

Obama was mediocre. He will be remembered as America's first Black president, and little more. He had charisma, but that was about it.

The reason for the entrenchment is due to a lack of willingness for compromise between the two parties. American federal politics have always been a bipartisan system, but that didn't prevent shit getting done in the past because both sides were usually willing to at least try and work together. If the Dems and Republicans would just lighten up a little and give some leeway on their positions, the situation would be more amenable.

Considering the current situation, I'd take "mediocre" any day of the week.

[Sanctissima]

Obama was mediocre. He will be remembered as America's first Black president, and little more. He had charisma, but that was about it.

The reason for the entrenchment is due to a lack of willingness for compromise between the two parties. American federal politics have always been a bipartisan system, but that didn't prevent shit getting done in the past because both sides were usually willing to at least try and work together. If the Dems and Republicans would just lighten up a little and give some leeway on their positions, the situation would be more amenable.

Considering the current situation, I'd take "mediocre" any day of the week.

That's... a fair point.

Still, while undeniably better than Trump, do keep in mind that Obama actually increased the US debt more than Bush, got America involved in pointless foreign wars, and wasted billions on drones. Some of his domestic policies were nice, but it's debatable how effective he was at actually getting the country back on track, both economically and socially.

He was, by all means, just okay. Like I said, he'll go down in the history books as America's first Black president, and little more.

[Valrifell]

Obama wasn't bad, but it would still be nice if things were less polarized and if the two-party system was not so entrenched.

Obama was mediocre. He will be remembered as America's first Black president, and little more. He had charisma, but that was about it.

The reason for the entrenchment is due to a lack of willingness for compromise between the two parties. American federal politics have always been a bipartisan system, but that didn't prevent shit getting done in the past because both sides were usually willing to at least try and work together. If the Dems and Republicans would just lighten up a little and give some leeway on their positions, the situation would be more amenable.

It's as if you don't realize Obama tried a few times to work across the aisle but Republicans would have none of that shit.

[Tyrassueb]

Democrats facing backlash from their own constituents for supporting any Trump pick and/or voting to keep Canadian medicine out of the US beg Sen. Sanders to calm them down and redirect the rage against the Republicans.

Simultaneously they demand he stop attacking them for the same exact reasons.

[Ngelmish]

Democrats facing backlash from their own constituents for supporting any Trump pick and/or voting to keep Canadian medicine out of the US beg Sen. Sanders to calm them down and redirect the rage against the Republicans.

Simultaneously they demand he stop attacking them for the same exact reasons.

It's a pity then that Sanders voted to confirm both Mattis and Kelly, isn't it? I fully expect you to participate in attacking him for those reasons.

[Corrian]

It's a pity then that Sanders voted to confirm both Mattis and Kelly, isn't it? I fully expect you to participate in attacking him for those reasons.

He also picked the VA guy, since nobody voted no on that.

I think there are fair ones that Democrats voted for to rail against, though.

[Corrian]

Democrats facing backlash from their own constituents for supporting any Trump pick and/or voting to keep Canadian medicine out of the US beg Sen. Sanders to calm them down and redirect the rage against the Republicans.

Simultaneously they demand he stop attacking them for the same exact reasons.

The fact both parties are having Town Hall protests weirdly satisfies me. Both parties are falling apart.

[Conserative Morality]

It's as if you don't realize Obama tried a few times to work across the aisle but Republicans would have none of that shit.

"Compromise" here means "Let the GOP do whatever it wants". Obamacare was a major compromise. The problem with the Dems is that we were willing to compromise (or alternatively, not willing to stand up for our ideals).

[Genivaria]

Democrats facing backlash from their own constituents for supporting any Trump pick and/or voting to keep Canadian medicine out of the US beg Sen. Sanders to calm them down and redirect the rage against the Republicans.

Simultaneously they demand he stop attacking them for the same exact reasons.

The fact both parties are having Town Hall protests weirdly satisfies me. Both parties are falling apart.

And what happens in the meantime?

[Corrian]

And what happens in the meantime?

I have no idea, but I'm not particularly shedding any tears that none of the parties are going well.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The fact both parties are having Town Hall protests weirdly satisfies me. Both parties are falling apart.

And what happens in the meantime?

Soon the Libertarians and Greens shall rise.

[Genivaria]

And what happens in the meantime?

Soon the Libertarians and Greens shall rise.

What about the Socialists?
I will NOT be stuck between the Libertarians and the hippys who love crystals but hate vaccines.
Jill Stein is a fuckin idiot.

[Corrian]

I'm sure the parties will tweak themselves into their new positions eventually, for better or worse.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Soon the Libertarians and Greens shall rise.

What about the Socialists?
I will NOT be stuck between the Libertarians and the hippys who love crystals but hate vaccines.
Jill Stein is a fuckin idiot.

Fuck the Socialists, they're even more irrelevant than we are

[Gauthier]

"Compromise" here means "Let the GOP do whatever it wants".

Which sounds oddly like the platform half the people here want the Democrats to adopt. Of course there is some value in giving the Republicans rope, but there's that and then there's making the Democrats Republican Lite again.

[Tyrassueb]

Democrats facing backlash from their own constituents for supporting any Trump pick and/or voting to keep Canadian medicine out of the US beg Sen. Sanders to calm them down and redirect the rage against the Republicans.

Simultaneously they demand he stop attacking them for the same exact reasons.

It's a pity then that Sanders voted to confirm both Mattis and Kelly, isn't it? I fully expect you to participate in attacking him for those reasons.

It is and if he goes to a town hall in Eastern WA I'll be there protesting him on those and then begging him to do more to obstruct Republicans and get that bill to bring cheaper drugs in from Canada up again.

[Corrian]

It is and if he goes to a town hall in Eastern WA I'll be there protesting him on those and then begging him to do more to obstruct Republicans and get that bill to bring cheaper drugs in from Canada up again.

I don't know about Kelly but Mattis didn't seem like a fight worth picking, so I don't really see the problem.

[Ngelmish]

It's as if you don't realize Obama tried a few times to work across the aisle but Republicans would have none of that shit.

"Compromise" here means "Let the GOP do whatever it wants". Obamacare was a major compromise. The problem with the Dems is that we were willing to compromise (or alternatively, not willing to stand up for our ideals).

Roosevelt, Truman and Johnson all were willing to compromise and/or cite political reality when it came to settling for policy gains that fell short of the mark of what exactly they wanted. Compromise in itself is not an untenable thing nor is it necessarily opposed to one's ideals. When it comes to healthcare particularly, I would be inclined to say that it is a better thing to compromise where possible to advance better policy outcomes. that said, obviously I don't advocate for letting the GOP do whatever it wants; there's no point in dealing with those who do not deal in good faith.

It is and if he goes to a town hall in Eastern WA I'll be there protesting him on those and then begging him to do more to obstruct Republicans and get that bill to bring cheaper drugs in from Canada up again.

I don't know about Kelly but Mattis didn't seem like a fight worth picking, so I don't really see the problem.

The point is consistency. If Tyrassueb is serious about tweaking Democrats for being insufficiently committed to his priorities or cause, then Sanders own apostasies should be included in that list despite his status as an icon. When it comes to arguing over motives, intentions, honesty, progressiveness, and so on, it's arguably more important to actually turn a critical eye on those who are being held up as exemplary.

As for the merits, I see the arguments both for confirming the marginally better nominees and opposing any and all of them en masse. I'm torn, but lean towards no confirmations.

[Collatis]

It's a pity then that Sanders voted to confirm both Mattis and Kelly, isn't it? I fully expect you to participate in attacking him for those reasons.

It is and if he goes to a town hall in Eastern WA I'll be there protesting him on those and then begging him to do more to obstruct Republicans and get that bill to bring cheaper drugs in from Canada up again.

Kelly was bad, though still relatively okay considering our situation, but what's your issue with Mattis?

[Tyrassueb]

It is and if he goes to a town hall in Eastern WA I'll be there protesting him on those and then begging him to do more to obstruct Republicans and get that bill to bring cheaper drugs in from Canada up again.

Kelly was bad, though still relatively okay considering our situation, but what's your issue with Mattis?

Not much. Mostly I'd be protesting his vote for Kelly. Of all of Trumps picks, Mattis is the most... Reasonable? I'm not sure if there is a better word right...

[Collatis]

Kelly was bad, though still relatively okay considering our situation, but what's your issue with Mattis?

Not much. Mostly I'd be protesting his vote for Kelly. Of all of Trumps picks, Mattis is the most... Reasonable? I'm not sure if there is a better word right...

Well the second most reasonable after Shulkin. Zinke, Haley, Chao, and Kelly are also somewhat reasonable. (Still pretty bad though)

[Conserative Morality]

Roosevelt, Truman and Johnson all were willing to compromise and/or cite political reality when it came to settling for policy gains that fell short of the mark of what exactly they wanted. Compromise in itself is not an untenable thing nor is it necessarily opposed to one's ideals. When it comes to healthcare particularly, I would be inclined to say that it is a better thing to compromise where possible to advance better policy outcomes. that said, obviously I don't advocate for letting the GOP do whatever it wants; there's no point in dealing with those who do not deal in good faith.

I'm not against compromise in principle. There have been plenty of times throughout our history - the majority, even - when working across the aisle was laudable and productive.

I just feel that lately? Not one of those times.

[Uxupox]

Not much. Mostly I'd be protesting his vote for Kelly. Of all of Trumps picks, Mattis is the most... Reasonable? I'm not sure if there is a better word right...

Well the second most reasonable after Shulkin. Zinke, Haley, Chao, and Kelly are also somewhat reasonable. (Still pretty bad though)

Second most reasonable? Kelly and Mattis are the fucking best in their respective business.

[Collatis]

Well the second most reasonable after Shulkin. Zinke, Haley, Chao, and Kelly are also somewhat reasonable. (Still pretty bad though)

Second most reasonable? Kelly and Mattis are the fucking best in their respective business.

Shulkin was approved unanimously for a reason. He's pretty damn qualified.