TRUMP: Yes, He Even Branded A MAGAthread

[Gauthier]

if not outright planned by Russia.

Everyone I don't like is Hitler a Russian plant.

Obviously if you snidely remark about Russian involvement that means it's nonexistent.

Oh wait...

[url=http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/strange-bedfellows-putin-and-europe’s-far-right]Strange Bedfellows: Putin and Europe’s Far Right[/url]

[Venerable Bede]

Russia isn't communist anymore, but it's still the same scaremongering about Russia in order to attack political opponents and movements as enemies of the country.

The red scare was about the idea of communists inside the US. Not Russia.

The Cold War one was absolutely focused on Russia and accusing communists of being foreign spies or agitators.

[Venerable Bede]

Everyone I don't like is Hitler a Russian plant.

Obviously if you snidely remark about Russian involvement that means it's nonexistent.

Oh wait...

[url=http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/strange-bedfellows-putin-and-europe’s-far-right]Strange Bedfellows: Putin and Europe’s Far Right[/url]

You could have written a similar article about the USSR and the Antiwar movement in the 1960's U.S.

[Vassenor]

Obviously if you snidely remark about Russian involvement that means it's nonexistent.

Oh wait...

[url=http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/strange-bedfellows-putin-and-europe’s-far-right]Strange Bedfellows: Putin and Europe’s Far Right[/url]

You could have written a similar article about the USSR and the Antiwar movement in the 1960's U.S.

Your point being?

[Venerable Bede]

You could have written a similar article about the USSR and the Antiwar movement in the 1960's U.S.

Your point being?

That such accusations were mainly about shutting down the opposition's validity without having to actually engage them.

[Vassenor]

Your point being?

That such accusations were mainly about shutting down the opposition's validity without having to actually engage them.

You mean like the right seems to do all the time?

[Mefpan]

That such accusations were mainly about shutting down the opposition's validity without having to actually engage them.

You mean like the right seems to do all the time?

More like the left seems to do in recent times, but essentially yes.

[The Vermin Confederation of Mossflower]

Everyone I don't like is Hitler a Russian plant.

Obviously if you snidely remark about Russian involvement that means it's nonexistent.

Oh wait...

[url=http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/strange-bedfellows-putin-and-europe’s-far-right]Strange Bedfellows: Putin and Europe’s Far Right[/url]

Did you actually read that article or is your assumption that anybody with anything nice to say about Putin is a Russian plant

[Venerable Bede]

That such accusations were mainly about shutting down the opposition's validity without having to actually engage them.

You mean like the right seems to do all the time?

And the left.

[Gauthier]

Obviously if you snidely remark about Russian involvement that means it's nonexistent.

Oh wait...

[url=http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/strange-bedfellows-putin-and-europe’s-far-right]Strange Bedfellows: Putin and Europe’s Far Right[/url]

Did you actually read that article or is your assumption that anybody with anything nice to say about Putin is a Russian plant

Yes, that Russia and Putin have a cozy relation with European far-right parties, the same ones who tend towards pulling out of the EU.

Russia accused of clandestine funding of European parties as US conducts major review of Vladimir Putin's strategy

[Jumhuriyah Hindustan]

You mean like the right seems to do all the time?

And the left.

oh god could we please stop with this partisan bickering - both sides use these tactics

oh wait *looks at thread title*

nevermind

[The Vermin Confederation of Mossflower]

Did you actually read that article or is your assumption that anybody with anything nice to say about Putin is a Russian plant

Yes, that Russia and Putin have a cozy relation with European far-right parties, the same ones who tend towards pulling out of the EU.

Russia accused of clandestine funding of European parties as US conducts major review of Vladimir Putin's strategy

And again the only concrete evidence revealed is a 2014 bank loan, which, while conceivably connected, still does not prove collusion.

With Trump there is not even that to present as evidence.
So we are back at square one.

[Ifreann]

What does this have to do with communist infiltration?

The scaremongering's the same, except the scary people are now said to be brownshirts instead of tankies.

My (entirely internet based) understanding is that Europe can (in theory) defend itself from Russia, but we want America to have our back so that we could, if it came to it, fuck Russia's shit completely and utterly up. Having the US ensures that it wouldn't even be a fair fight, so the Russians would have to be super crazy to even try it.

It shouldn't even be a fair fight in the first place even without America.

Why?

---

What about "It just looked bad, and gave Trump something to keep bringing up." is confusing you?


I'm sure the CIA will give you a full briefing if you ask nicely.


Are we? I certainly haven't been. Are you sure you're not just making shit up to try and dismiss concerns about Russia interfering in the US election?

"It looked bad, and it uncovered collusion between the Hillary campaign and the DNC, MSM and USDS, but it wasn't actually bad, I swear!"

Again, what about this is confusing you?

"Trust the CIA! Granted they were wrong (or complacent in a political conspiracy) about WMDs in Iraq, took years to find Osama bin Laden, and are at least partially responsible for the mess in Syria and Lybia at this very moment, but I'm sure they've got real compelling evidence of a plot to take over the government by installing a puppet in the form of TV celebrity billionaire!"

*shrug* Unless you think the CIA is going to let you in on whatever proof they have, you can either trust them or not.

I really am sorry I have to do this quoting shit

Don't lie.

but you aren't saying anything new. Just repeating what has been said before as established fact. And yes, the implication being carried around here is that Putin's team of elite ninja hackers broke into the DNC and stole emails and other information to pass them off to their well-known Kremlin-backed propaganda outlet Wikileaks. Maybe that's me taking in the wrong vibe. It's certainly how the media has been pushing this since it began.

I think that's you taking in the wrong vibe, and I think it's deliberate.

[Gauthier]

Yes, that Russia and Putin have a cozy relation with European far-right parties, the same ones who tend towards pulling out of the EU.

Russia accused of clandestine funding of European parties as US conducts major review of Vladimir Putin's strategy

And again the only concrete evidence revealed is a 2014 bank loan, which, while conceivably connected, still does not prove collusion.

With Trump there is not even that to present as evidence.
So we are back at square one.

And putting aside the Prove It Game, you should be able to see the implications of Russia cozying up to those parties. Hoping they all take power in their own countries and successfully EUxit so that there is either a weakened or nonexistent EU to fund NATO like right-wingers snidely insist it should, which in combination with Trump pulling the US out means Russia gets to reconquista Eastern Europe at leisure.

[The Vermin Confederation of Mossflower]

"It looked bad, and it uncovered collusion between the Hillary campaign and the DNC, MSM and USDS, but it wasn't actually bad, I swear!"

Again, what about this is confusing you?

"Trust the CIA! Granted they were wrong (or complacent in a political conspiracy) about WMDs in Iraq, took years to find Osama bin Laden, and are at least partially responsible for the mess in Syria and Lybia at this very moment, but I'm sure they've got real compelling evidence of a plot to take over the government by installing a puppet in the form of TV celebrity billionaire!"

*shrug* Unless you think the CIA is going to let you in on whatever proof they have, you can either trust them or not.

I really am sorry I have to do this quoting shit

Don't lie.

but you aren't saying anything new. Just repeating what has been said before as established fact. And yes, the implication being carried around here is that Putin's team of elite ninja hackers broke into the DNC and stole emails and other information to pass them off to their well-known Kremlin-backed propaganda outlet Wikileaks. Maybe that's me taking in the wrong vibe. It's certainly how the media has been pushing this since it began.

I think that's you taking in the wrong vibe, and I think it's deliberate.

Apparently we're going to have to agree to disagree on whatever it is we disagree on, as you haven't actually challenged anything I said other than accusing me of for some reason lying about how I feel regarding this topic and it's discussion.

[Mefpan]

It shouldn't even be a fair fight in the first place even without America.

Why?

You're kidding me, right. Europe, with over three times the population and god knows how many times the economic power of Russia, should aim for a balance in which both parties could reasonably convince themselves that they could win a war if push comes to shove and they just tried harder than the other side.

This is stupid. This is not football. If Europe can afford to have 36 players on the green compared to Russia's 11, then there's no reason it shouldn't. Fairness gets to be in sports, not in warfare.

[Corrian]

The Trump team has released their statement. It's being reported by CBS on Twitter, so I'll transcribe:

These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history. It's now time to move on and "Make America Great Again".

There's no denial of the findings themselves, just pointing out that the organization was responsible for a major intelligence failure twelve years ago under different leadership and a different administration, a comment that slightly over one month is "a long time ago", an outright false claim that his Electoral College margin was one of the biggest in history, and a claim that this is something that we can all just move on from and ignore. Oh, and here's our slogan again.

This going to be a really bad 4 years.

[Thermodolia]

Why?

You're kidding me, right. Europe, with over three times the population and god knows how many times the economic power of Russia, should aim for a balance in which both parties could reasonably convince themselves that they could win a war if push comes to shove and they just tried harder than the other side.

This is stupid. This is not football. If Europe can afford to have 36 players on the green compared to Russia's 11, then there's no reason it shouldn't. Fairness gets to be in sports, not in warfare.

I think Iffy might have thought you ment the opposite

[Ashmoria]

And again the only concrete evidence revealed is a 2014 bank loan, which, while conceivably connected, still does not prove collusion.

With Trump there is not even that to present as evidence.
So we are back at square one.

And putting aside the Prove It Game, you should be able to see the implications of Russia cozying up to those parties. Hoping they all take power in their own countries and successfully EUxit so that there is either a weakened or nonexistent EU to fund NATO like right-wingers snidely insist it should, which in combination with Trump pulling the US out means Russia gets to reconquista Eastern Europe at leisure.

its kinda freaking me out that conservatives are suddenly Russian apologists.

[Gauthier]

The Trump team has released their statement. It's being reported by CBS on Twitter, so I'll transcribe:



There's no denial of the findings themselves, just pointing out that the organization was responsible for a major intelligence failure twelve years ago under different leadership and a different administration, a comment that slightly over one month is "a long time ago", an outright false claim that his Electoral College margin was one of the biggest in history, and a claim that this is something that we can all just move on from and ignore. Oh, and here's our slogan again.

This going to be a really bad 4 years.

Not as bad as Eastern Europe might have it admittedly.

[The Vermin Confederation of Mossflower]

And again the only concrete evidence revealed is a 2014 bank loan, which, while conceivably connected, still does not prove collusion.

With Trump there is not even that to present as evidence.
So we are back at square one.

And putting aside the Prove It Game, you should be able to see the implications of Russia cozying up to those parties. Hoping they all take power in their own countries and successfully EUxit so that there is either a weakened or nonexistent EU to fund NATO like right-wingers snidely insist it should, which in combination with Trump pulling the US out means Russia gets to reconquista Eastern Europe at leisure.

Sure.

Alternatively and more probably it could usher in a new era of peace and cooperation now that we aren't pointing guns over the fence at each other anymore.

[The Vermin Confederation of Mossflower]

And putting aside the Prove It Game, you should be able to see the implications of Russia cozying up to those parties. Hoping they all take power in their own countries and successfully EUxit so that there is either a weakened or nonexistent EU to fund NATO like right-wingers snidely insist it should, which in combination with Trump pulling the US out means Russia gets to reconquista Eastern Europe at leisure.

its kinda freaking me out that conservatives are suddenly Russian apologists.

I'm not a conservative though.

[Thermodolia]

And putting aside the Prove It Game, you should be able to see the implications of Russia cozying up to those parties. Hoping they all take power in their own countries and successfully EUxit so that there is either a weakened or nonexistent EU to fund NATO like right-wingers snidely insist it should, which in combination with Trump pulling the US out means Russia gets to reconquista Eastern Europe at leisure.

its kinda freaking me out that conservatives are suddenly Russian apologists.

It's the alt-right that's the main driving force behind that.

[Gauthier]

its kinda freaking me out that conservatives are suddenly Russian apologists.

It's the alt-right that's the main driving force behind that.

Strongman Fetishism and Somebody Else's Problem are a bad combination like drugs and alcohol.

[Ashmoria]

its kinda freaking me out that conservatives are suddenly Russian apologists.

I'm not a conservative though.

well good for you.