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Should 3rd Party Voters be blamed for the Trump Victory?

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:54 pm

Ebliania wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Clinton wasn't entitled to my vote and I don't think she would have made a decent president.

*righteous outrage intensifies*


I just really hate the attitude that Clinton somehow was entitled to my vote.

If anything I was more likely to vote Trump over her.
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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:55 pm

Isle of Shadows wrote:
New haven america wrote:
He apologized for the assaults and admits to it. Don't get me wrong, I definitely thing he is a pos. However, Hillary never apologized for laughing about the rape cases she was dealing with (there are recordings of her also)... I would have voted for her (even though I have opposed views to democrats) if she had divorced her husband and proved that 1) she doesn't need a man to be strong and independent enough to be president 2) she cares more about the people rather than power/ money/ and her image. I really wanted to like her. However, if I was her, I would've divorced my husband and actually tried to help provide evidence to put my husband in jail.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... rape-case/
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The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates
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Postby The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:55 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates wrote:Electoral college I'd say, but I don't care really. I'm just happy Trump won instead of Hillary.



It's broken but you don't care because the candidate you want won.

k.

Happened to Gore and it happened now, and it will probably happen in the future. The system is broken but no one is going to fix it, that's the way it's going to be.

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Mitaniatla
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mitaniatla » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:56 pm

Arkolon wrote:According to fivethirtyeight dot com, all of the third party votes going to Clinton wouldn't have flipped enough states to give her the victory. Haven't checked it but it's a respectable enough website.

It's repectable, but it was way off on the actual outcome

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Gages Icelandic Army
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Postby Gages Icelandic Army » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:57 pm

Reploid Productions wrote:There are plenty of people to blame for it. 3rd party voters are not blameless, but they carry the least degree of blame in this. Blame the Republicans who for years have been strip-mining the worst the United States has to offer to try and scrape some more votes that made a candidate like Trump viable. Blame the Democrats who badly misread the political climate and decided to field an establishment candidate in a time and place where people are really freaking fed up with establishment politics.

There's plenty of blame to go around. To cast the blame solely on those who voted third party is irresponsible and short-sighted.

This.

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Trotskylvania
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Postby Trotskylvania » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:57 pm

Novus America wrote:
Socialist Nordia wrote:All of the sudden, Trump supporters don't give a shit about a broken system when they're the beneficiaries.


The states preferred Trump. We are a Union of sovereign states, not a single state. And the state governments we elected decided to run it this way. I do not like Trump, but he won by the rules we through our elected governments chose.

No the states were never intended to choose the President. That's why electoral college votes are weighted by population, and why electors were selected alongside members of the House of Representatives in their own district, unpledged, in the initial system.

The development of parties, the abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, have all completely mutated the original intent of the Electoral College. The original reason for the winner-take-all system, the strengthening of the Southern voting bloc to maintain Southern control of the national government, happened before the Civil War.

There's no point in defending the Electoral College, because it has so wildly mutated from its original intent for a myriad number of reasons. And none of the reasons for its existence (the existence of slavery and different state suffrage laws) have any relevance today. We guarnteed, by constitutional amendment, a uniform and universal suffrage system. States can't get an artificial advantage by expanding suffrage, so there's no point for indirect election of the President.
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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:58 pm

The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

It's broken but you don't care because the candidate you want won.

k.

Happened to Gore and it happened now, and it will probably happen in the future. The system is broken but no one is going to fix it, that's the way it's going to be.

"Sorry dems, your votes don't matter and now we're locked into the presidency because the electoral college skews our way and we're also locked into congress because we gerrymandered the hell out of everything and your vote doesn't really matter anymore, but just deal with it, too bad for you."
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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:58 pm

No. A vote is your voice and I will not blame anyone for expressing their political opinion with it. Sec. Clinton lost the electoral college, not happy, but there is no one to blame for that beyond her campaign. If someone voted third party, or none of these, or Mickey Mouse, THAT is who they wanted (or didn't want) as president and THAT should damn well be respected regardless of who wins.

Else-wise the whole bloody thing is pointless.
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The Portland Territory
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Postby The Portland Territory » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:59 pm

Socialist Nordia wrote:
The Portland Territory wrote:No, because if anything, 3rd parties, specifically Johnson, hurt Trump more than Clinton

Johnson drew evenly from both sides I think, while stein exclusively took from Clinton.

No, he took a lot more from the Republican camp. Stein, understandable, obviously, buy Johnson's non Libertarian/ Non Independent Libertarians voter base was made up of, primarily, Republicans. Most Democrats who didn't like Clinton mostly just stayed home
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:59 pm

The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

It's broken but you don't care because the candidate you want won.

k.

Happened to Gore and it happened now, and it will probably happen in the future. The system is broken but no one is going to fix it, that's the way it's going to be.


Please. You want a "broken" system look at the UK. How the PM gets into power, FPTP, all powerful house requiring just 51% of MPs to change any law they want.
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The Lone Alliance
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Postby The Lone Alliance » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:59 pm

NERVUN wrote:No. A vote is your voice and I will not blame anyone for expressing their political opinion with it. Sec. Clinton lost the electoral college, not happy, but there is no one to blame for that beyond her campaign. If someone voted third party, or none of these, or Mickey Mouse, THAT is who they wanted (or didn't want) as president and THAT should damn well be respected regardless of who wins.

Else-wise the whole bloody thing is pointless.

CNN is saying she might actually be losing the popular vote too.
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The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates
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Postby The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:01 pm

I absolutely love how Dems say they hate the electoral college and they hate it's very existence but the moment Cali is on their side they suddenly switch and put all their support on the one state.
Last edited by The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates on Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:02 pm

The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates wrote:Anyways I'm joyful America picked a party that will probably fix the Rust Belt and much more, I'm just hoping he will agree to Keystone and make that Trudeau dip change his mind.

And gain only 40 pement new jobs, and charge right thru 1st nation land.

NERVUN wrote: If someone voted third party, or none of these, or Mickey Mouse, THAT is who they wanted (or didn't want) as president and THAT should damn well be respected regardless of who wins.



King Mickey 2020. He will buld a wall between worlds and make Xemnas pay for it. :p

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:02 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
Novus America wrote:
The states preferred Trump. We are a Union of sovereign states, not a single state. And the state governments we elected decided to run it this way. I do not like Trump, but he won by the rules we through our elected governments chose.

No the states were never intended to choose the President. That's why electoral college votes are weighted by population, and why electors were selected alongside members of the House of Representatives in their own district, unpledged, in the initial system.

The development of parties, the abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, have all completely mutated the original intent of the Electoral College. The original reason for the winner-take-all system, the strengthening of the Southern voting bloc to maintain Southern control of the national government, happened before the Civil War.

There's no point in defending the Electoral College, because it has so wildly mutated from its original intent for a myriad number of reasons. And none of the reasons for its existence (the existence of slavery and different state suffrage laws) have any relevance today. We guarnteed, by constitutional amendment, a uniform and universal suffrage system. States can't get an artificial advantage by expanding suffrage, so there's no point for indirect election of the President.


The states were intended to chose the president, check your constitution again. It says the states determine how electors are to be apportioned. If the states want to do it by national popular vote they can, but they do not have to either.

Sure I disagree with the winner takes all system, but that is what our elected governments have chosen to keep.

The constitution allows us to run elections pretty much however we want, and this is how we have chosen to run them. Yes I would chose a different way. But you or me do not dictate how elections are to be run. We vote for people who chose how.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:02 pm

Folks who voted for Johnson were not going to vote for hillary. The blame for Trump's victory goes to trump. He ran an outside campaign against the ultimate insider.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:03 pm

The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates wrote:I absolutely love how Dems say they hate the electoral college and they hate it's very existence but the moment Cali is on their side they suddenly switch and put all their support on the one state.


Cali is a blue state m8.

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Grand Britannia
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Postby Grand Britannia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:03 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

It's broken but you don't care because the candidate you want won.

k.


Lets be honest Herp, that's how it is every 4 years. If Hillary lost the popular but won the electoral most of her supporters wouldn't care.


^this

No one cares about the Electoral College until their candidate loses.
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The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp
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Postby The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:05 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:

It's broken but you don't care because the candidate you want won.

k.


Lets be honest Herp, that's how it is every 4 years. If Hillary lost the popular but won the electoral most of her supporters wouldn't care.


Obama won in 2012 with both the electoral college and the Popular vote.

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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:06 pm

The Lone Alliance wrote:
NERVUN wrote:No. A vote is your voice and I will not blame anyone for expressing their political opinion with it. Sec. Clinton lost the electoral college, not happy, but there is no one to blame for that beyond her campaign. If someone voted third party, or none of these, or Mickey Mouse, THAT is who they wanted (or didn't want) as president and THAT should damn well be respected regardless of who wins.

Else-wise the whole bloody thing is pointless.

CNN is saying she might actually be losing the popular vote too.

She has 300,000 more votes right now with 99% counted.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... nald-trump

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/ ... story.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary- ... mp-2016-11

http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501403297 ... pular-vote

https://www.rt.com/usa/366171-trump-los ... lar-votes/
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New Roma Republic
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Postby New Roma Republic » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:06 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Lets be honest Herp, that's how it is every 4 years. If Hillary lost the popular but won the electoral most of her supporters wouldn't care.


Obama won in 2012 with both the electoral college and the Popular vote.


Most presidents have, save 5 (including Trump)

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Trotskylvania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:06 pm

Novus America wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:No the states were never intended to choose the President. That's why electoral college votes are weighted by population, and why electors were selected alongside members of the House of Representatives in their own district, unpledged, in the initial system.

The development of parties, the abolition of slavery, universal suffrage, have all completely mutated the original intent of the Electoral College. The original reason for the winner-take-all system, the strengthening of the Southern voting bloc to maintain Southern control of the national government, happened before the Civil War.

There's no point in defending the Electoral College, because it has so wildly mutated from its original intent for a myriad number of reasons. And none of the reasons for its existence (the existence of slavery and different state suffrage laws) have any relevance today. We guarnteed, by constitutional amendment, a uniform and universal suffrage system. States can't get an artificial advantage by expanding suffrage, so there's no point for indirect election of the President.


The states were intended to chose the president, check your constitution again. It says the states determine how electors are to be apportioned. If the states want to do it by national popular vote they can, but they do not have to either.

Sure I disagree with the winner takes all system, but that is what our elected governments have chosen to keep.

The constitution allows us to run elections pretty much however we want, and this is how we have chosen to run them. Yes I would chose a different way. But you or me do not dictate how elections are to be run. We vote for people who chose how.

The states can choose the manner of choosing their electors. The apportionment of electors is controlled by Congress under the same mechanism that apportionment for the House occurs.

This was gloss for "we won't force you to let certain people vote". The delegates at the Constitutional Convention and in the ratification debate made it clear that this system was meant to be based on popular voting for electors, and with few exceptions, that's how the system was enacted.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:07 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Lets be honest Herp, that's how it is every 4 years. If Hillary lost the popular but won the electoral most of her supporters wouldn't care.


Obama won in 2012 with both the electoral college and the Popular vote.


Sure, that doesn't change what I said though. Most people don't care about the electoral college until their candidate loses because of it.
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The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates
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Postby The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:08 pm

The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp wrote:
The Shady Looking Vukmiri Delegates wrote:I absolutely love how Dems say they hate the electoral college and they hate it's very existence but the moment Cali is on their side they suddenly switch and put all their support on the one state.


Cali is a blue state m8.

That's what I said "mate."
absolutely love how Dems say they hate the electoral college and they hate it's very existence but the moment Cali is on their side

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Socialist Nordia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:08 pm

Grand Britannia wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Lets be honest Herp, that's how it is every 4 years. If Hillary lost the popular but won the electoral most of her supporters wouldn't care.


^this

No one cares about the Electoral College until their candidate loses.

That's bullshit, everyone always hates the electoral college, I've called for it to be abolished consistently for years.
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United States of Natan
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Postby United States of Natan » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:09 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
United States of Natan wrote:Yes. if they had the common sense to realize the stakes of this election, and that this isn't the right time to be making a protest vote, then maybe we'd actually be celebrating the triumph of a decent president over trump.


Clinton wasn't entitled to my vote and I don't think she would have made a decent president.

Oh, so that justifies allowing someone even worse than her to win? yeah, because that's logical.
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