Should 3rd Party Voters be blamed for the Trump Victory?

[Internationalist Bastard]

The only people at fault are the people who voted for him

[Kubra]

Are there really people who think the libertarian vote would have went Clinton if they had to choose between two
Like cmon if anything dem voters should be playing up the libs if they think vote splitting is an issue

[Trotza]

Are there really people who think the libertarian vote would have went Clinton if they had to choose between two
Like cmon if anything dem voters should be playing up the libs if they think vote splitting is an issue

I think the argument was that it drew away young voters in particular, but that's just what some dems were saying.

[Trotza]

The only people at fault are the people who voted for him

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

[Zurkerx]

The only people at fault are the people who voted for him

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

Which could tell us something: if he beat her, could you image what some of the other Republicans would of done to her? They probably win in a landslide.

[Aclion]

The assumption being that they would have voted for Clinton rather Trump, which is never backed up and absurd on the face given that they're supposedly opposed to the system that she represents.

I know that I would not, under any circumstance, vote for Clinton. I'd have spoiled the presidential section of my ballot if there were not third party candidates.

The only people at fault are the people who voted for him

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

And for disenfranchising her own party membership

You can also blame the republican establishment for pussyfooting and getting people mobilized against everything establishment.
And the Media for giving Trump so much coverage he was bound to be nominated.

[Trotza]

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

Which could tell us something: if he beat her, could you image what some of the other Republicans would of done to her? They probably win in a landslide.

I'm sure you could turn that around and speculate on which Democrats could have beaten him, but it's all just conjectures now and we'll never truly know what could've happened differently.

[Galloism]

The only people at fault are the people who voted for him

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

Incidentally, while I'll agree Clinton was a terrible candidate to run, I really hate this line of argument.

This is the same logic people use when they say a person "shouldn't have gotten drunk" or "shouldn't have worn that" when they get raped. The republican party (as a whole, #notallrepublicans) ran a guy who is more ridiculously bigoted than... well, comparisons fail me. Someone bigly bigoted. They then supported this person through every shit thing he did and said. They excused it. They supported him anyway.

Then people turn around and say "it's hillary's fault that a ridiculous person is going to be in the whitehouse!!!"

No it fucking isn't. It's the fault of the republican party. Could Hillary have done better? Probably. There's plenty of blame to go around, but it's not "Hillary's fault!!!!1!!!11!!!one1one". Trump is responsible for his actions. The republican party is responsible for its actions. The voters are responsible for their actions. We need to own that. Everybody.

And hopefully things don't turn out too badly.

[Trollgaard]

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

Incidentally, while I'll agree Clinton was a terrible candidate to run, I really hate this line of argument.

This is the same logic people use when they say a person "shouldn't have gotten drunk" or "shouldn't have worn that" when they get raped. The republican party (as a whole, #notallrepublicans) ran a guy who is more ridiculously bigoted than... well, comparisons fail me. Someone bigly bigoted. They then supported this person through every shit thing he did and said. They excused it. They supported him anyway.

Then people turn around and say "it's hillary's fault that a ridiculous person is going to be in the whitehouse!!!"

No it fucking isn't. It's the fault of the republican party. Could Hillary have done better? Probably. There's plenty of blame to go around, but it's not "Hillary's fault!!!!1!!!11!!!one1one". Trump is responsible for his actions. The republican party is responsible for its actions. The voters are responsible for their actions. We need to own that. Everybody.

And hopefully things don't turn out too badly.

Things are going to be fantastic.

[Trotza]

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

Incidentally, while I'll agree Clinton was a terrible candidate to run, I really hate this line of argument.

This is the same logic people use when they say a person "shouldn't have gotten drunk" or "shouldn't have worn that" when they get raped. The republican party (as a whole, #notallrepublicans) ran a guy who is more ridiculously bigoted than... well, comparisons fail me. Someone bigly bigoted. They then supported this person through every shit thing he did and said. They excused it. They supported him anyway.

Then people turn around and say "it's hillary's fault that a ridiculous person is going to be in the whitehouse!!!"

No it fucking isn't. It's the fault of the republican party. Could Hillary have done better? Probably. There's plenty of blame to go around, but it's not "Hillary's fault!!!!1!!!11!!!one1one". Trump is responsible for his actions. The republican party is responsible for its actions. The voters are responsible for their actions. We need to own that. Everybody.

And hopefully things don't turn out too badly.

All this runs on the assumption that the election of Trump is to be considered inherently a bad thing. Obviously that is quite a divisive opinion. And yet so far, besides making him President the voters have no more actions to atone for (although obviously I realize many consider that quite a transgression in itself). Personally I do not agree with almost all of Trump's positions, but I can understand why some people, and not just xenophobic, misogynistic, racist, homophobic etc people mind you, would vote for him, so I don't really blame them for doing anything that wouldn't seem wrong in their eyes. He appealed to them, many others didn't, and he won. Unless everything goes absolutely haywire, there's not much to own up to for the average Trump voter.

[Stellonia]

Stop vilifying third party voters and candidates. If anything, they should be commended for refusing to accept the lesser of two evils. We need more people to reject the political binary, not less. Plus, what kind of potential Clinton voter would instead back a candidate who wants to abolish income and corporate taxes?

And please, stop looking for excuses to delegitimize a Trump presidency. A majority of voters opposed Hillary in this election, if you want to try that excuse, and Johnson, Stein, and McMullin did not split the vote.

[Uiiop]

Stop vilifying third party voters and candidates. If anything, they should be commended for refusing to accept the lesser of two evils. We need more people to reject the political binary, not less. Plus, what kind of potential Clinton voter would instead back a candidate who wants to abolish income and corporate taxes?

And please, stop looking for excuses to delegitimize a Trump presidency. A majority of voters opposed Hillary in this election, if you want to try that excuse, and Johnson, Stein, and McMullin did not split the vote.

60,274,974 votes 59,937,338 votes
While true that third parties don't carry much if at all of the blame game here what's you're isn't true.

[Galloism]

Incidentally, while I'll agree Clinton was a terrible candidate to run, I really hate this line of argument.

This is the same logic people use when they say a person "shouldn't have gotten drunk" or "shouldn't have worn that" when they get raped. The republican party (as a whole, #notallrepublicans) ran a guy who is more ridiculously bigoted than... well, comparisons fail me. Someone bigly bigoted. They then supported this person through every shit thing he did and said. They excused it. They supported him anyway.

Then people turn around and say "it's hillary's fault that a ridiculous person is going to be in the whitehouse!!!"

No it fucking isn't. It's the fault of the republican party. Could Hillary have done better? Probably. There's plenty of blame to go around, but it's not "Hillary's fault!!!!1!!!11!!!one1one". Trump is responsible for his actions. The republican party is responsible for its actions. The voters are responsible for their actions. We need to own that. Everybody.

And hopefully things don't turn out too badly.

All this runs on the assumption that the election of Trump is to be considered inherently a bad thing. Obviously that is quite a divisive opinion. And yet so far, besides making him President the voters have no more actions to atone for (although obviously I realize many consider that quite a transgression in itself). Personally I do not agree with almost all of Trump's positions, but I can understand why some people, and not just xenophobic, misogynistic, racist, homophobic etc people mind you, would vote for him, so I don't really blame them for doing anything that wouldn't seem wrong in their eyes. He appealed to them, many others didn't, and he won. Unless everything goes absolutely haywire, there's not much to own up to for the average Trump voter.

Well, he could completely do a 180 and not be anything like what he was on the campaign, repudiate his own supporters demands and govern like a reasonable centrist president. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

I could also get a pony that can fly.

[The Serbian Empire]

Only Michigan was close enough that Johnson and Stein could be blamed. The other states were too far out of reach for the 3rd parties to play a role in either direction other than Minnesota which might have gone Trump if Johnson wasn't on the ballot.

[Trotza]

All this runs on the assumption that the election of Trump is to be considered inherently a bad thing. Obviously that is quite a divisive opinion. And yet so far, besides making him President the voters have no more actions to atone for (although obviously I realize many consider that quite a transgression in itself). Personally I do not agree with almost all of Trump's positions, but I can understand why some people, and not just xenophobic, misogynistic, racist, homophobic etc people mind you, would vote for him, so I don't really blame them for doing anything that wouldn't seem wrong in their eyes. He appealed to them, many others didn't, and he won. Unless everything goes absolutely haywire, there's not much to own up to for the average Trump voter.

Well, he could completely do a 180 and not be anything like what he was on the campaign, repudiate his own supporters demands and govern like a reasonable centrist president. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

I could also get a pony that can fly.

Here we have a little thing called innocent before proven guilty. Except in this case we haven't even determined the presidential crime yet, so that makes jumping to conclusions even more silly. All we have are general "bad feelings" about what we think he'll do.

[Aclion]

Well, he could completely do a 180 and not be anything like what he was on the campaign, repudiate his own supporters demands and govern like a reasonable centrist president. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

I could also get a pony that can fly.

Hey now! The first two are longstanding republican traditions! there might be hope yet.

[Galloism]

Well, he could completely do a 180 and not be anything like what he was on the campaign, repudiate his own supporters demands and govern like a reasonable centrist president. That wouldn't be a bad thing.

I could also get a pony that can fly.

Here we have a little thing called innocent before proven guilty. Except in this case we haven't even determined the presidential crime yet, so that makes jumping to conclusions even more silly. All we have are general "bad feelings" about what we think he'll do.

Well, my bad feelings are based on what he said he will do. You know, the words out of his own mouth?

I mean, certainly, presidents haven't always done what they've said they're going to do, and in this case there could be almost nothing the fuck better than for that to happen bigly, but we are justifiably concerned.

[Trotza]

Here we have a little thing called innocent before proven guilty. Except in this case we haven't even determined the presidential crime yet, so that makes jumping to conclusions even more silly. All we have are general "bad feelings" about what we think he'll do.

Well, my bad feelings are based on what he said he will do. You know, the words out of his own mouth?

I mean, certainly, presidents haven't always done what they've said they're going to do, and in this case there could be almost nothing the fuck better than for that to happen bigly, but we are justifiably concerned.

Concern about possible policy choices is fine. Coming to the conclusion that Trump voters ruined the nation and it's future and should be generally considered bad people is less logical.

[Galloism]

Well, my bad feelings are based on what he said he will do. You know, the words out of his own mouth?

I mean, certainly, presidents haven't always done what they've said they're going to do, and in this case there could be almost nothing the fuck better than for that to happen bigly, but we are justifiably concerned.

Concern about possible policy choices is fine. Coming to the conclusion that Trump voters ruined the nation and it's future and should be generally considered bad people is less logical.

Well, they did deal us and themselves quite a blow, most likely - provided Trump goes through with his plans.

Economists have predicted that Trump's plans will leave a huge budget deficit, and will probably lead to recession. Economics isn't an exact science of course, but that is something to be concerned about. Besides that, his promise to commit war crimes and bring back torture will leave us tarnished on the international stage, if he follows up on that.

Are we headed towards the world of Fallout? No. however, this will likely hurt us, a lot.

[Dark Wolf Hills]

Many people will say anything to make you feel bad, because they don't feel good. And there are always people who aren't happy about something. Its how people are, unfortunately. However voting for a third party is not a wasted vote. Remember George Washington? He was the first independent president. Being the republican nominee or the democratic nominee doesn't make the person better than an independent. It actually allows the system more freedom. Because Republican's are traditionalists, usually representing old world views but better for the working class. Democrats represent new age thinking and progressive policies. Neither is better but a balance is best. Independents usually don't side with one or the other because they don't represent enough views of the party. Does that mean they shouldn't be president? No it doesn't. They have as much right as any citizen. And voting for them is not a waste. Never let anyone tell you otherwise. Its your voice, use it. Just understand that too many people make themselves slaves to their own party and they are the reason presidents get elected who make poor choices.

[Shofercia]

On the book of faces, I have seen multiple posts from my Pro-Clinton friends blaming third party voters as the reason Clinton lost. They say things to the effect of "...third party voters: this wasn't the election to express your distaste in the political system" (That partial quote came from a friend of a friend on Facebook). I feel that this is an unfair generalization. Yes, I voted third party. Yes, I realized at the time I was throwing away my vote. And no, I did not vote as a protest to the system. I voted for the candidate who most closely represented my beliefs.

First, let me say that I am a freshman college student studying Aerospace Engineering, 18, and from a affluent area. I am a white, heterosexual male, and I lean center-left, politically. I come from a fairly conservative area, though it has small pockets of vocal liberals. I am registered as a Democrat, but I vote for whoever I like the best. So now that you know a little about me politically, here is why I voted third party:

I could not in good conscious vote for Donald Trump. I cannot get behind someone who says the stuff he says, even if he says it only to get attention.

As for Hillary Clinton, she just doesn't represent who I am. Sure, it would be nice to have the first woman president, however, there is so much corruption surrounding her that I could not vote for her in good conscious either. So I voted for an obscure third party that very few people had heard of. Why? Because he (mostly) represented my views.

Now, I can see why us third party candidates are being blamed; we always get blamed by the losing side. But you must understand, if I hadn't voted third party, I would not have voted for Clinton. Or Trump. I would have abstained from the Presidential election because the choices were so bad. And that is my right. I have the right to make any decision I want, and I made mine wholeheartedly. If I had the chance to do a do over, I would still vote for the person I voted for.

So, NS, what is your take on this? Are third parties to blame for the Trump Presidency? Do most people vote third party just to express their distaste in the electoral system? Please, give your thoughts below!

3rd party voter here - why exactly are we blamed? The DNC and RNC didn't make their candidates attractive enough for us to vote for them. Blaming 3rd party voters is like Walmart and Target going "I cannot believe that we didn't hit our profit margins, because the shoppers visited local stores for higher quality, lower cost repairs!" If people are protesting against your business, that's on you. If people are launching a protest vote against your party, that's on you. Not on us.

[Trotza]

Are we headed towards the world of Fallout? No. however, this will likely hurt us, a lot.

There you go again with the unspecific "this". Name a single action he has taken as President of the United States. Obviously that's a bit of a loaded question because there is not a single one.

[Salus Maior]

No, Trump would have won regardless.

There weren't that many Third Party voters...And even then, why are you blaming them for voting with their conscience? Seems like a very anti-democratic way of thinking.

[Salus Maior]

No, Trump would have won regardless.

There weren't that many Third Party voters...And even then, why are you blaming them for voting with their conscience? Seems like a very anti-democratic way of thinking.

[Galloism]

Are we headed towards the world of Fallout? No. however, this will likely hurt us, a lot.

There you go again with the unspecific "this". Name a single action he has taken as President of the United States. Obviously that's a bit of a loaded question because there is not a single one.

I'll give you an action he's done to hurt our national interests already, although he was only running for president at the time.

He's bolstered ISIS's recruitment numbers. They use clips of his speeches in their recruitment videos.

Hell, ISIS is celebrating now. They think this is the greatest thing ever. Seriously.