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Should 3rd Party Voters be blamed for the Trump Victory?

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Isle of Shadows
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Founded: Nov 10, 2016
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Postby Isle of Shadows » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:24 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
United States of Natan wrote:Hillary is nowhere near as bad as trump.


Subjective

If she had won, she'd appoint to the court a justice who'd protect rights.


Not all of them. She's pretty consistently been anti-2A and 4A

Say goodbye to Roe v. Wade,


I'm incredibly doubtful Roe v Wade is going anywhere.

Gun control will also be stopped


Good fucking riddance. Me and other people are already working hard on strengthening gun rights under the new administration.

as will gay marriage.


I'm also doubtful about this one because it would destroy any hope of re-election and badly hurt the GOP. But if it becomes an issue I'll fight against changes on that front.


I'm just going to say that I agree with all these points.

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The Forsworn Knights
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Postby The Forsworn Knights » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:25 pm

Isle of Shadows wrote:
New Roma Republic wrote:

When you vote for third party, the third party gets more funding for the next election. (I got this small info from a video by gradeAunderA) So I don't think you threw away your vote. You are basically giving the third party a better chance next time of winning with the funding.

People might say, "This is the worst election ever! I should vote for the lesser evil!" Then... an even shitter election comes around... that would made me wish I voted for a 3rd party with similar views to me the previous election.

Honestly... (and I hope I don't get crucified by NS for this... I'm new here so I don't know if this place has any political leaning) I voted for Trump. However, I'm an Asian female... Why would I vote for someone who says all these sexist things? I would rather vote for someone who simply says sexist things than someone who defends rapists... and didn't divorce her husband for probably being a rapist. Why would I vote for someone who says all these ____ things? My answer would be similar to the previous one. I am more scared of someone who bites than barks. Why didn't I vote third party then? I'm a conservative. No one in the third party reflects my views at all... and I don't want to fund them either. If I DID find myself having a lot of similar views as the third party... I would vote them every single time... just in case a particularly shitty election happens in the future.

So, by your logic a man who personally sexually assaults people was the better option?
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He could but they don't keep for very long. A week, ten days if you keep them in the fridge, which is never convenient.
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Novoslavya
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Postby Novoslavya » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:25 pm

You miswrote "Thanked" in the thread title.

I do not see why anyone would support Hillary, surely they are either ignorant or hateful.

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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:25 pm

Washington resistance army, you honestly should have voted Hillary. Remember this? Your business would have had a huge boost in gun sales, just like back then. The fear of losing guns drives people to buy guns more than anything else.
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Esternial
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Postby Esternial » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:26 pm

No.

You voted for who you supported. Some people should just stop trying to find someone to blame all the time.

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Tekania
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Postby Tekania » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:26 pm

Tectonix wrote:It is possible you could blame them. After all, if the amount of votes Johnson received in Florida had went to HRC, she would've won. Same goes for Pennsylvania. Maybe not all of the blame, but a little, sure.


Sure, you could claim if all the Johnson voters in Florida voted for Hillary that she would have won..... But that's a bold claim. There are many who voted for Johnson who if they had confined their vote to the two main parties would have voted GOP.... It's unrealistic to think all of those voted would go to Hillary.

If you want to blame anyone for Hillary not winning..... Blame all the people who figured Hillary was a sure thing, and so stayed at home and abstained from voting.... some of which are out protesting now.
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Postby Novus America » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:27 pm

Socialist Nordia wrote:Washington resistance army, you honestly should have voted Hillary. Remember this? Your business would have had a huge boost in gun sales, just like back then. The fear of losing guns drives people to buy guns more than anything else.


Until his business gets driven out of business.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:27 pm

Socialist Nordia wrote:Washington resistance army, you honestly should have voted Hillary. Remember this? Your business would have had a huge boost in gun sales, just like back then. The fear of losing guns drives people to buy guns more than anything else.


The fear of her gutting 2A rights and repealing PLCAA (thus by proxy killing my business) was too great for me to do that.

I actually do know some people in the business who did vote for her in the hopes of that happening though. They're getting a lot of backlash now lol
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Isle of Shadows
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Postby Isle of Shadows » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:28 pm

[quote="The Forsworn Knights";p="30366307"][/quote]
I've already addressed this similar question in a previous post.

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Grand Britannia
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Postby Grand Britannia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:29 pm

Galloism wrote:
Grand Britannia wrote:
^this

No one cares about the Electoral College until their candidate loses.

repeating the same false claim doesn't make it true.

There's evidence of nationstaters, like myself, complaining about the electoral college in 2014, when Obama was in the white house.


I wasn't referring to just this website or the internet.
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Crockerland
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Postby Crockerland » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:29 pm

Blame whoever you want, Trump is president and he's going to make America great again.
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Ganonsyoni
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Postby Ganonsyoni » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:30 pm

No. Green party voters were voters who would have never voted for trump or hillary in the first place. Even if 1/3 or 2/3's voted for hillary, it wouldn't have been enough. The libertarian party basically stole voters from the republicans and even then it wasn't enough.

So it was square to blame on the Democratic party for not making entries with the rural poor, not offering them any real policy change, forcing a shit candidate that is poison to that part of the electorate, and denigrating them as unintelligent oafs. Of fucking course they went to the fucking populist, which offered change and scapegoats to yell at instead of the real reasons to their problems (never tell the poor why they are poor).
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:31 pm

Maybe the Democrats should have blame because they didn't nominate Sanders, who without Benghazi or email scandals is more favoravle, and would've paved the way for more millenial votes, where Clinton didn't get the decisive amount.
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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:31 pm

Novus America wrote:
Socialist Nordia wrote:We get it, people shouldn't matter states are the all-holy deciders of elections and such.


People do matter, because you choose your state's government. People do need to remember that president is not the only election that matters however.

Yes, but no candidates in my state have ever campaigned on a promise to support abolishing the electoral college. And over 2/3 of states will have to be willing to amend the constitution, which is impossible since Republicans control all the states that have 3 people in them and have a disproportionately large amount of states and they will not repeal the electoral college because they hold a majority. I can't just go outside and say "I think I'll pass a constitutional amendment today," it's not that easy, it's near impossible.
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The Forsworn Knights
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Postby The Forsworn Knights » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:33 pm

Isle of Shadows wrote:
The Forsworn Knights wrote:

I've already addressed this similar question in a previous post.

Once again.
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VS
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The Forsworn Knights wrote:Well, I assume Max Barry has money. So maybe he could buy a couple reporters.

He could but they don't keep for very long. A week, ten days if you keep them in the fridge, which is never convenient.
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United States of Natan
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Postby United States of Natan » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:34 pm

Novus America wrote:
United States of Natan wrote:That point of view is incredibly dangerous. Hillary is nowhere near as bad as trump. And even so, this is about more than just the candidates. If she had won, she'd appoint to the court a justice who'd protect rights. Trump's appointee will only take them away. Say goodbye to Roe v. Wade, because trump's gonna get rid of that. Gun control will also be stopped, as will gay marriage. Basically everything we've worked for. And unfortunately, who knows how long it will be before we can get them back?


You do know he is AGAINST gun control? Not everyone has the same priorities as you. And gay marriage will not be stopped, at most be sent back to the states, where most states will still have it.

Regardless, all the ideals that liberals champion will go down the drain under trump, and his congress and court. So Liberals and progressives who voted against Hillary because they falsely equated her with donald trump have themselves to blame for this.

Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't support a third party candidate if you want. Of course you can. But what I am saying is that there is a time and a place, and when we run the risk of progress being halted, that isn't the time or the place. Yes, you may not like Hillary. But stop equating her to Donald Trump. She's nowhere near as bad as him. She would've protected most of the values that liberals and progressives hold dear, particularly with her supreme court pick. Again, this isn't only about the candidate. this is about progress and liberalism. And now those are all about to be stopped and reversed for 4 years because a few liberals couldn't see the bigger picture.
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Postby Crimiea » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:35 pm

Gary Johnson, the man who wanted to dismantle the EPA, FDA, and the Board of Education has a support base that'll otherwise vote Democrat. It's their fault.
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:36 pm

Crimiea wrote:Gary Johnson, the man who wanted to dismantle the EPA, FDA, and the Board of Education has a support base that'll otherwise vote Democrat. It's their fault.


Am Johnson voter, would not have voted Democrat this year.

United States of Natan wrote:
Novus America wrote:
You do know he is AGAINST gun control? Not everyone has the same priorities as you. And gay marriage will not be stopped, at most be sent back to the states, where most states will still have it.

Regardless, all the ideals that liberals champion will go down the drain under trump, and his congress and court. So Liberals and progressives who voted against Hillary because they falsely equated her with donald trump have themselves to blame for this.

Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't support a third party candidate if you want. Of course you can. But what I am saying is that there is a time and a place, and when we run the risk of progress being halted, that isn't the time or the place. Yes, you may not like Hillary. But stop equating her to Donald Trump. She's nowhere near as bad as him. She would've protected most of the values that liberals and progressives hold dear, particularly with her supreme court pick. Again, this isn't only about the candidate. this is about progress and liberalism. And now those are all about to be stopped and reversed for 4 years because a few liberals couldn't see the bigger picture.


You're assuming we're all liberals and progressives.
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Free Missouri
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Postby Free Missouri » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:37 pm

New haven america wrote:While it did hurt, I don't think they're mainly to blame. The system, former Bernie or Bust voters, the Democratic Party's internal drama, Komy, etc... all had a hand in Trump's win.

I personally place most of my blame on the EC, it's an unneeded system that has lead to the loser of the Popular Vote (You know, the part that should matter) to win multiple times. (Trump is currently the 5th person to get away with this)

Sorry, I don't quite like the idea of a handful (100-150ish) of urban areas being able to basically force us to accept a permanent democratic presidency because they can get a plurality.

I sure as hell don't want a Plurality system set up. I'll fight you to the death to avoid that.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:38 pm

The Forsworn Knights wrote:
Isle of Shadows wrote:When you vote for third party, the third party gets more funding for the next election. (I got this small info from a video by gradeAunderA) So I don't think you threw away your vote. You are basically giving the third party a better chance next time of winning with the funding.

People might say, "This is the worst election ever! I should vote for the lesser evil!" Then... an even shitter election comes around... that would made me wish I voted for a 3rd party with similar views to me the previous election.

Honestly... (and I hope I don't get crucified by NS for this... I'm new here so I don't know if this place has any political leaning) I voted for Trump. However, I'm an Asian female... Why would I vote for someone who says all these sexist things? I would rather vote for someone who simply says sexist things than someone who defends rapists... and didn't divorce her husband for probably being a rapist. Why would I vote for someone who says all these ____ things? My answer would be similar to the previous one. I am more scared of someone who bites than barks. Why didn't I vote third party then? I'm a conservative. No one in the third party reflects my views at all... and I don't want to fund them either. If I DID find myself having a lot of similar views as the third party... I would vote them every single time... just in case a particularly shitty election happens in the future.

So, by your logic a man who personally sexually assaults people was the better option?


How do you inpersonally sexually assault someone?

Besides it's wasnt a criminal trial bUT civil one, and it was dropped for lack of evidence. So no he did not rape anyone. So yes he is a far better choice than someone who would take a false rape accusation and run with it

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Elwher
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Postby Elwher » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:38 pm

United States of Natan wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
I don't necessarily see Trump as even worse than her. Really they're about on the same level of shitiness for me personally, they both have a few good points and a whole lot of bad points.

That point of view is incredibly dangerous. Hillary is nowhere near as bad as trump. And even so, this is about more than just the candidates. If she had won, she'd appoint to the court a justice who'd protect rights. Trump's appointee will only take them away. Say goodbye to Roe v. Wade, because trump's gonna get rid of that. Gun control will also be stopped, as will gay marriage. Basically everything we've worked for. And unfortunately, who knows how long it will be before we can get them back?


Ms. Clinton's appointee would have protected rights while adding gun control? In what illogical universe are those two statements compatible?
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The Forsworn Knights
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Postby The Forsworn Knights » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:39 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
The Forsworn Knights wrote:So, by your logic a man who personally sexually assaults people was the better option?


How do you inpersonally sexually assault someone?

Besides it's wasnt a criminal trial bUT civil one, and it was dropped for lack of evidence. So no he did not rape anyone. So yes he is a far better choice than someone who would take a false rape accusation and run with it

http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald ... e-lawsuit/

"Grab 'em by the pussy- if you are a celebrity they let you get away with it!" sounds awfully rapey to me.
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The Forsworn Knights wrote:Well, I assume Max Barry has money. So maybe he could buy a couple reporters.

He could but they don't keep for very long. A week, ten days if you keep them in the fridge, which is never convenient.
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Socialist Nordia
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Postby Socialist Nordia » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:40 pm

Free Missouri wrote:
New haven america wrote:While it did hurt, I don't think they're mainly to blame. The system, former Bernie or Bust voters, the Democratic Party's internal drama, Komy, etc... all had a hand in Trump's win.

I personally place most of my blame on the EC, it's an unneeded system that has lead to the loser of the Popular Vote (You know, the part that should matter) to win multiple times. (Trump is currently the 5th person to get away with this)

Sorry, I don't quite like the idea of a handful (100-150ish) of urban areas being able to basically force us to accept a permanent democratic presidency because they can get a plurality.

I sure as hell don't want a Plurality system set up. I'll fight you to the death to avoid that.

That's not what I want either. Require an outright majority, but have instant runoff. And why are you rural voters so entitled that you demand your votes be worth more than ours?
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United States of Natan
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Postby United States of Natan » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:41 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Crimiea wrote:Gary Johnson, the man who wanted to dismantle the EPA, FDA, and the Board of Education has a support base that'll otherwise vote Democrat. It's their fault.


Am Johnson voter, would not have voted Democrat this year.

United States of Natan wrote:Regardless, all the ideals that liberals champion will go down the drain under trump, and his congress and court. So Liberals and progressives who voted against Hillary because they falsely equated her with donald trump have themselves to blame for this.

Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't support a third party candidate if you want. Of course you can. But what I am saying is that there is a time and a place, and when we run the risk of progress being halted, that isn't the time or the place. Yes, you may not like Hillary. But stop equating her to Donald Trump. She's nowhere near as bad as him. She would've protected most of the values that liberals and progressives hold dear, particularly with her supreme court pick. Again, this isn't only about the candidate. this is about progress and liberalism. And now those are all about to be stopped and reversed for 4 years because a few liberals couldn't see the bigger picture.


You're assuming we're all liberals and progressives.

No, I'm talking to the liberals and progressives who voted against her.
Elwher wrote:
United States of Natan wrote:That point of view is incredibly dangerous. Hillary is nowhere near as bad as trump. And even so, this is about more than just the candidates. If she had won, she'd appoint to the court a justice who'd protect rights. Trump's appointee will only take them away. Say goodbye to Roe v. Wade, because trump's gonna get rid of that. Gun control will also be stopped, as will gay marriage. Basically everything we've worked for. And unfortunately, who knows how long it will be before we can get them back?


Ms. Clinton's appointee would have protected rights while adding gun control? In what illogical universe are those two statements compatible?
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Novoslavya
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Postby Novoslavya » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:42 pm

The Forsworn Knights wrote:
Isle of Shadows wrote:I've already addressed this similar question in a previous post.

Once again.
>Woman whose husband was a manwhore who certainly went too far in his manwhorishness, but who was prolly not a rapist
VS
>Guy who personally sexually assaulted individuals, then brushed the confession off as 'Locker Room banter' (Which as a guy who has been in a lot of locker rooms, is bull.), all the while saying that 35 years old is 'checkout' for wives, said that he would in fact refer to his daughter as a 'piece of ass'.


Then again:
>sometimes odd billionaire who sometimes goes too far in his hunt for votes
VS
>woman who gets massive funds from countries where human rights are an abstract noun, who was involved in the US policy to destroy functioning countries, who proposed rigging the elections held in the area of Palestine, who, as it seems, defended a child-rapist whom she knew was guilty, who is monopolized the media in her favour during the election (from demonizing Trump to giving her debate questions before debates and publishing things only she approved of)

The most horrible thing about Clinton supporters is that they either don't want to know this or they know and don't care.

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