Should 3rd Party Voters be blamed for the Trump Victory?

[Salus Maior]

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

Which could tell us something: if he beat her, could you image what some of the other Republicans would of done to her? They probably win in a landslide.

Yeah, maybe the Democratic party shouldn't have been up it's own ass about her, and allowed Bernie to succeed by not sabotaging him in favor of Clinton.

[The Dragon Realms Empire]

unfortunately it was the Democrats who are to blame for loosing the Presidency

they should have supported Bernie as their candidate instead of their 'safe' option

Actually the Democrats depend on minorities who Bernie did very poorly with in the primaries, so while he might have won, I don't know that he would have.

[Nerotysia]

unfortunately it was the Democrats who are to blame for loosing the Presidency

they should have supported Bernie as their candidate instead of their 'safe' option

Actually the Democrats depend on minorities who Bernie did very poorly with in the primaries, so while he might have won, I don't know that he would have.

You really think tons of minority voters would pick Trump over Bernie?

[The Dragon Realms Empire]

And, you know, Hillary's fault for not being able to beat Donald Trump of all people.

Which could tell us something: if he beat her, could you image what some of the other Republicans would of done to her? They probably win in a landslide.

Not necessarily. People were sick of the establishment which probably helped Trump quite a bit; the republicans are just as much to blame for America's problems as the Democrats are.

[Senkaku]

Half of Gary's voters (since I'm being generous to their whole "we pull equally" BS) + Stein's voters (since she was overtly courting dissatisfied Dems) would've closed the gap for HRC in a number of key states, including Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida and Pennsylvania. I believe they may have also put her within striking distance in Georgia (will check numbers).

Were they the only problem? Certainly not. Did they fuck shit up? Yep. And neither even achieved the 5% mark, so it really wasn't worth it.

[The Dragon Realms Empire]

Actually the Democrats depend on minorities who Bernie did very poorly with in the primaries, so while he might have won, I don't know that he would have.

You really think tons of minority voters would pick Trump over Bernie?

No, but wasn't minority turnout lower in than in 2008/2012? I imagine if they don't like Bernie the turnout would be even lower.

[Trotza]

There you go again with the unspecific "this". Name a single action he has taken as President of the United States. Obviously that's a bit of a loaded question because there is not a single one.

I'll give you an action he's done to hurt our national interests already, although he was only running for president at the time.

He's bolstered ISIS's recruitment numbers. They use clips of his speeches in their recruitment videos.

Hell, ISIS is celebrating now. They think this is the greatest thing ever. Seriously.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not stumping for Trump, far from it. But one of the better things about having people in office as opposed to on the campaign trail is that we can judge them for their actions as a public official, not just their argued potential or promises. So feel free to criticize his policies as much as you want as soon as they start actually happening, I doubt you'll have to wait long.

[Nerotysia]

You really think tons of minority voters would pick Trump over Bernie?

No, but wasn't minority turnout lower in than in 2008/2012? I imagine if they don't like Bernie the turnout would be even lower.

From what I've seen, white rural voters made the difference this election, and Bernie would likely have performed far better with them.

[Galloism]

I'll give you an action he's done to hurt our national interests already, although he was only running for president at the time.

He's bolstered ISIS's recruitment numbers. They use clips of his speeches in their recruitment videos.

Hell, ISIS is celebrating now. They think this is the greatest thing ever. Seriously.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not stumping for Trump, far from it. But one of the better things about having people in office as opposed to on the campaign trail is that we can judge them for their actions as a public official, not just their argued potential or promises. So feel free to criticize his policies as much as you want as soon as they start actually happening, I doubt you'll have to wait long.

I am concerned you are right, on the last count anyway.

[Trotza]

Half of Gary's voters (since I'm being generous to their whole "we pull equally" BS) + Stein's voters (since she was overtly courting dissatisfied Dems) would've closed the gap for HRC in a number of key states, including Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida and Pennsylvania. I believe they may have also put her within striking distance in Georgia (will check numbers).

Were they the only problem? Certainly not. Did they fuck shit up? Yep. And neither even achieved the 5% mark, so it really wasn't worth it.

Except they wouldn't have and didn't close the gap because they didn't want to vote for her or him. Voting for who you actually believe in rather than the lesser of two evils is always worth it in a individual sense. If you don't want a spoiler effect implement the alternative vote system or try harder to win everyone's vote.

[The Dragon Realms Empire]

No, but wasn't minority turnout lower in than in 2008/2012? I imagine if they don't like Bernie the turnout would be even lower.

From what I've seen, white rural voters made the difference this election, and Bernie would likely have performed far better with them.

I would agree that there would have been a difference between them; these were people who were feeling left behind by the system afterall and all they wanted were jobs who both Trump and Bernie talked about.

The thing is I don't know that this would make a difference in say, Pennsylvania for example. Many of the potential jobs come from fossil fuel related jobs which Bernie would never have supported (Not saying he should have; we SHOULD be looking for alternatives).

Then again it probably would have made differences in Florida and Michigan so maybe he could have won with his white appeal.

[Nerotysia]

From what I've seen, white rural voters made the difference this election, and Bernie would likely have performed far better with them.

I would agree that there would have been a difference between them; these were people who were feeling left behind by the system afterall and all they wanted were jobs who both Trump and Bernie talked about.

The thing is I don't know that this would make a difference in say, Pennsylvania for example. Many of the potential jobs come from fossil fuel related jobs which Bernie would never have supported (Not saying he should have; we SHOULD be looking for alternatives).

Then again it probably would have made differences in Florida and Michigan so maybe he could have won with his white appeal.

Plus Bernie wouldn't have a rather pockmarked history to defend, nor would he be spouting ridiculous and bigoted rhetoric.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

http://www.therebel.media/wasn_t_white_ ... youth_poor

[Free Missouri]

Are there really people who think the libertarian vote would have went Clinton if they had to choose between two
Like cmon if anything dem voters should be playing up the libs if they think vote splitting is an issue

I think the argument was that it drew away young voters in particular, but that's just what some dems were saying.

Third-party Young voters tend to fall into two camps (as in those who weren't conned into sincerely supporting Trump or Hillary)

Many (like me) are Right-Libertarians who are acting as a continuation of the Ron/Rand Paul revolution that generally are tired of the government in our business

also many, are leftists and supported bernie and many ended up voting for Jill Stein or for Hillary to stop Trump.

Many of the secibd were alienated by the revelation that the DNC was actively working against Bernie, the first would never be caught dead supporting hillary in the first place as she is completely opposite our values.

[Ethel mermania]

I believe his/her point is that the Constitution DOES in fact, GUARANTEE, that, "the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It does indeed. Many of the Founders considered it a redundant piece of text, but all things considered, it's a good thing it's there.

say thank you to new york, of all places

[The Weapons Board]

Why are we "blaming" people for doing the right thing?

[Infected Mushroom]

On the book of faces, I have seen multiple posts from my Pro-Clinton friends blaming third party voters as the reason Clinton lost. They say things to the effect of "...third party voters: this wasn't the election to express your distaste in the political system" (That partial quote came from a friend of a friend on Facebook). I feel that this is an unfair generalization. Yes, I voted third party. Yes, I realized at the time I was throwing away my vote. And no, I did not vote as a protest to the system. I voted for the candidate who most closely represented my beliefs.

First, let me say that I am a freshman college student studying Aerospace Engineering, 18, and from a affluent area. I am a white, heterosexual male, and I lean center-left, politically. I come from a fairly conservative area, though it has small pockets of vocal liberals. I am registered as a Democrat, but I vote for whoever I like the best. So now that you know a little about me politically, here is why I voted third party:

I could not in good conscious vote for Donald Trump. I cannot get behind someone who says the stuff he says, even if he says it only to get attention.

As for Hillary Clinton, she just doesn't represent who I am. Sure, it would be nice to have the first woman president, however, there is so much corruption surrounding her that I could not vote for her in good conscious either. So I voted for an obscure third party that very few people had heard of. Why? Because he (mostly) represented my views.

Now, I can see why us third party candidates are being blamed; we always get blamed by the losing side. But you must understand, if I hadn't voted third party, I would not have voted for Clinton. Or Trump. I would have abstained from the Presidential election because the choices were so bad. And that is my right. I have the right to make any decision I want, and I made mine wholeheartedly. If I had the chance to do a do over, I would still vote for the person I voted for.

So, NS, what is your take on this? Are third parties to blame for the Trump Presidency? Do most people vote third party just to express their distaste in the electoral system? Please, give your thoughts below!

No one should be "blamed" for a Trump victory.

His victory's the greatest thing that could happen to America.

If anything, the Democratic party machine has only itself to blame for engineering its own loss by playing the same political correctness card again ("oh you don't vote for Hillary? You're a sexist... just like you're a racist for not voting for Obama") instead of proposing actual policy and thinking the voters would fall for it again.

[Free Missouri]

Sorry, I don't quite like the idea of a handful (100-150ish) of urban areas being able to basically force us to accept a permanent democratic presidency because they can get a plurality.

I sure as hell don't want a Plurality system set up. I'll fight you to the death to avoid that.

That's not what I want either. Require an outright majority, but have instant runoff. And why are you rural voters so entitled that you demand your votes be worth more than ours?

because even when we do have an "disproportionate hand in government," all of the recovery money and projects go to the cities.

[Traxa]

While it did hurt, I don't think they're mainly to blame. The system, former Bernie or Bust voters, the Democratic Party's internal drama, Komy, etc... all had a hand in Trump's win.

I personally place most of my blame on the EC, it's an unneeded system that has lead to the loser of the Popular Vote (You know, the part that should matter) to win multiple times. (Trump is currently the 5th person to get away with this)

Hillary clinton didnt win the popular vote so you can hate on the EC all you want, it doesn't change anything.

[Kaboomlandia]

It certainly hurt. Didn't Utah have an independent actually gain more votes than HRC?

I would say McMullin definitely looked as if he'd give the two big candidates a run for their money in Utah, but I don't think Utah was ever really in doubt of winning the state for him.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Half of Gary's voters (since I'm being generous to their whole "we pull equally" BS) + Stein's voters (since she was overtly courting dissatisfied Dems) would've closed the gap for HRC in a number of key states, including Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida and Pennsylvania. I believe they may have also put her within striking distance in Georgia (will check numbers).

Were they the only problem? Certainly not. Did they fuck shit up? Yep. And neither even achieved the 5% mark, so it really wasn't worth it.

I didn't fuck anything up. Neither Trump or Hillary did anything to earn my vote, and I don't like to vote for evil.

[Kubra]

Are there really people who think the libertarian vote would have went Clinton if they had to choose between two
Like cmon if anything dem voters should be playing up the libs if they think vote splitting is an issue

I think the argument was that it drew away young voters in particular, but that's just what some dems were saying.

And that's still a bunk arguement, cuz even young voters voting lib ain't gonna vote for dems.
That's like if the CPUSA ever got more than 3 votes and the republicans accused them of splitting the vote

[The Greater German Federal Republic]

For crying out loud, can't they just accept the election results and not start a witchhunt on people for Donald's victory?

This is getting ridiculous...

[Agartala (Ancient)]

While it did hurt, I don't think they're mainly to blame. The system, former Bernie or Bust voters, the Democratic Party's internal drama, Komy, etc... all had a hand in Trump's win.

I personally place most of my blame on the EC, it's an unneeded system that has lead to the loser of the Popular Vote (You know, the part that should matter) to win multiple times. (Trump is currently the 5th person to get away with this)

Hillary clinton didnt win the popular vote so you can hate on the EC all you want, it doesn't change anything.

She won the popular vote by .2 percentage points. Look it up.

[Republic of Canador]

It is possible you could blame them. After all, if the amount of votes Johnson received in Florida had went to HRC, she would've won. Same goes for Pennsylvania. Maybe not all of the blame, but a little, sure.

What on Earth makes you think Johnson voters would vote for Clinton?