Is homophobia linked to religion?

[Greater Pareidolia]

Oh, so his age precluded him from working with nazis?

For fuck's sake, Imp. You should know that people can be terrible at all ages.

My statement actually backed up your point, since it conceded the possibility that an adult Soros could have realistically worked with ex-Nazi businessmen in the 1950s and 1960s.

Not sure why you're talking about child killers who you would do well to note, aren't businessmen.

Oh, really? Children aren't businessmen? Thank you for pointing that out. I had no inkling.

You are being facetious and you know damn well that you are. But if you want it rubbed all over your face en plein public, so be it.

You agreed with Quokkastan on my supposing that Soros worked with nazis at age 15 was paranoid bullshit.

I point out that being 15 is not too young to be a terrible person and show you examples thereof.

[Quokkastan]

The "unnatural" one doesn't work without religion. You just have to point to how often you see it in nature.

People who call homosexuality "unnatural" are using a definition of the word removed from empiricism, and typically grounded in a religious view of human sexual relations.

People have a tendency to substitute "it is unnatural" in place of "it makes me uncomfortable".

Fair enough.

But, again, you can't defend that without falling back to religion. It's the only epistemology which will let you get away with "because I believe it to be so," and call that justified.

[Quokkastan]

My statement actually backed up your point, since it conceded the possibility that an adult Soros could have realistically worked with ex-Nazi businessmen in the 1950s and 1960s.

Not sure why you're talking about child killers who you would do well to note, aren't businessmen.

Oh, really? Children aren't businessmen? Thank you for pointing that out. I had no inkling.

You are being facetious and you know damn well that you are. But if you want it rubbed all over your face en plein public, so be it.

You agreed with Quokkastan on my supposing that Soros worked with nazis at age 15 was paranoid bullshit.

I point out that being 15 is not too young to be a terrible person and show you examples thereof.

No dear, 15 is the oldest he could possibly have been.

A Hungarian Jew who is still willingly in Nazi Germany in 1945 is about as likely as "weaponized homophilila"

[Esternial]

People have a tendency to substitute "it is unnatural" in place of "it makes me uncomfortable".

Fair enough.

But, again, you can't defend that without falling back to religion. It's the only epistemology which will let you get away with "because I believe it to be so," and call that justified.

Of course you can't defend that but you should realise focusing on how homosexuality is perfectly normal in nature won't make a difference because for a lot of people their reasoning isn't actually based on whether it's natural or not, even though they say it's not natural.

What people tend to mean when they say it is that it's not in their own nature, thus unnatural.

People supporting homosexuality often get bogged down in refuting this argumentum ad naturam even though I doubt the people making the statement thought for a second about homosexuality in respect to nature. As you said, it's often religious but sometimes it's just people not understanding. "They're not like us".

[Migdal Bavel]

People have a tendency to substitute "it is unnatural" in place of "it makes me uncomfortable".

Fair enough.

But, again, you can't defend that without falling back to religion. It's the only epistemology which will let you get away with "because I believe it to be so," and call that justified.

Have you been watching the Trump campaign?
Who needs to defend it? I feel that this is the case, so it is, whatever the biased liberal academics say. Like how I believe that the world is flat and that we're ruled by secret moon-Hitler.

[Greater Pareidolia]

Oh, really? Children aren't businessmen? Thank you for pointing that out. I had no inkling.

You are being facetious and you know damn well that you are. But if you want it rubbed all over your face en plein public, so be it.

You agreed with Quokkastan on my supposing that Soros worked with nazis at age 15 was paranoid bullshit.

I point out that being 15 is not too young to be a terrible person and show you examples thereof.

No dear, 15 is the oldest he could possibly have been.

A Hungarian Jew who is still willingly in Nazi Germany in 1945 is about as likely as "weaponized homophilila"

It hasn't occurred to you that it is possible he had nowhere else to go? Or that his cover was convincing enough?

Of course not.

And don't you dare fucking call me dear. I am not nor will ever be in your circle of friends.

[Esternial]

Oh, really? Children aren't businessmen? Thank you for pointing that out. I had no inkling.

You are being facetious and you know damn well that you are. But if you want it rubbed all over your face en plein public, so be it.

You agreed with Quokkastan on my supposing that Soros worked with nazis at age 15 was paranoid bullshit.

I point out that being 15 is not too young to be a terrible person and show you examples thereof.

No dear, 15 is the oldest he could possibly have been.

A Hungarian Jew who is still willingly in Nazi Germany in 1945 is about as likely as "weaponized homophilila"

Hold on has anyone every disproven weaponised homophilia?

[Uxupox]

People have a tendency to substitute "it is unnatural" in place of "it makes me uncomfortable".

Fair enough.

But, again, you can't defend that without falling back to religion. It's the only epistemology which will let you get away with "because I believe it to be so," and call that justified.

One can look it as a biological standpoint.

[Alvecia]

Fair enough.

But, again, you can't defend that without falling back to religion. It's the only epistemology which will let you get away with "because I believe it to be so," and call that justified.

One can look it as a biological standpoint.

Which is very shaky ground given the biological case for homosexuality

[Uxupox]

One can look it as a biological standpoint.

Which is very shaky ground given the biological case for homosexuality

On where as primates are known to use sexuality as a means of dominance? No thanks.

[Alvecia]

Which is very shaky ground given the biological case for homosexuality

On where as primates are known to use sexuality as a means of dominance? No thanks.

What are you on about?
I was refering to the existence of homosexuality in nature and the plausible hypotheses' for it's existence.
Given which, saying homosexuality in biologically unnatural is counter to the evidence at best.

[Quokkastan]

Which is very shaky ground given the biological case for homosexuality

On where as primates are known to use sexuality as a means of dominance? No thanks.

Any mammalian brain will easily confuse sexuality and aggression, but that's highly irrelevant.

[Quokkastan]

Fair enough.

But, again, you can't defend that without falling back to religion. It's the only epistemology which will let you get away with "because I believe it to be so," and call that justified.

One can look it as a biological standpoint.

And when you do that, you see that lots of animals engage in homosexual behavior. Lots of mammals engage in homosexual behavior. Lots of primates engage in homosexual behavior. And, in particular, the mostly closely related primates to humans engage in an awful lot of homosexual behavior.

[Gages Icelandic Army]

What's happening here? Aren't we supposed to be talking about homophobia's link to religion? Why are we talking about how natural it is to have homosexual impulses? This thread is going down the path of why it's moral, amoral, or neutral to being a homosexual rather than talking about religions link to the discrimination of homosexuals.

Am I missing something?

[Imperializt Russia]

My statement actually backed up your point, since it conceded the possibility that an adult Soros could have realistically worked with ex-Nazi businessmen in the 1950s and 1960s.

Not sure why you're talking about child killers who you would do well to note, aren't businessmen.

Oh, really? Children aren't businessmen? Thank you for pointing that out. I had no inkling.

You are being facetious and you know damn well that you are. But if you want it rubbed all over your face en plein public, so be it.

You agreed with Quokkastan on my supposing that Soros worked with nazis at age 15 was paranoid bullshit.

I point out that being 15 is not too young to be a terrible person and show you examples thereof.

Kindly show me the business that Tommy Venables or Iranian suicide children created.

Because I was quite specifically talking about them; as the examples you gave.

[Uxupox]

On where as primates are known to use sexuality as a means of dominance? No thanks.

Any mammalian brain will easily confuse sexuality and aggression, but that's highly irrelevant.

Citation needed my friend.

[Greater Pareidolia]

Oh, really? Children aren't businessmen? Thank you for pointing that out. I had no inkling.

You are being facetious and you know damn well that you are. But if you want it rubbed all over your face en plein public, so be it.

You agreed with Quokkastan on my supposing that Soros worked with nazis at age 15 was paranoid bullshit.

I point out that being 15 is not too young to be a terrible person and show you examples thereof.

Kindly show me the business that Tommy Venables or Iranian suicide children created.

Because I was quite specifically talking about them; as the examples you gave.

Oh my fucking god. You're just being deliberately obtuse now. There isn't even a point to this any more. What the hell is wrong with you? Arguiing that Tommy Venables are businessmen? You are argueing with yourself at this point. Had a long day at work? Want to talk about it? Or should I just shut up and pour you a scotch? It sounds like you need one. Or two. Or a cask.

[Neanderthaland]

Any mammalian brain will easily confuse sexuality and aggression, but that's highly irrelevant.

Citation needed my friend.

Both are regulated through the hypothalamus.

[Salus Maior]

It's largely borne from a lack of understanding. Like most "phobias" and hate in general.

[Uxupox]

Citation needed my friend.

Both are regulated through the hypothalamus.

The endocrine system. Where is the study that says that mammalians confuse sexuality with aggression.

[United States of Natan]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/10/public_opinion_gay_marriage

Majority of atheists support same sex marriage.

It's no big secret that abrahamic faiths traditionally condemned sodomy, although these days those against have mellowed from stoning to just disowning, and a few maybe even actually embrace it. Christianity seems far lot more modernising with same sex love and sex than Islam is, from what I've seen, but hey. There is area for progress. But it seems to be religion's traditional values (on topics like marriage) and the word of god that predominately fuels one's hostility to anything non heterosexual and monogamous.

What I'm interested in, is something that challenges this paradigm. Homophobic atheists. I mean if homophobia does boil down to religion, and one denounces all religion, then would homophobia still exist? If so, what's really the cause?

You could say ignorance, but then you do still get sexist atheists a lot more, but not really many homophobic ones, and awareness of that homophobia is why many openly challenge religion.

One hypothetical theory is the age in which someone becomes atheist. If they become one too early, they may not have had a chance to shred any cultural/emotional baggage from their social conservative backgrounds, and as such still harness some homophobia from religion.

Some may feel that even with science trumping religion, homosexuality might still be against nature, since it is not necessary for human survival. In which case religion doesn't actually come down to it.

Thoughts?

EDIT: It's worth noting that militant homophobia has existed in many secular states like China, USSR and Cuba (back then anyway) where homosexuality was a serious crime, which included suppressing homosexual desires and 're-education of heterosexuality'.

I'd say that while not all homophobia is linked to religion, most of it definitely is.

[Neanderthaland]

Both are regulated through the hypothalamus.

The endocrine system. Where is the study that says that mammalians confuse sexuality with aggression.

It's a fairly well-known fact. I remember hearing about it in a high school level psychology course way back in the day.

[Uxupox]

The endocrine system. Where is the study that says that mammalians confuse sexuality with aggression.

It's a fairly well-known fact. I remember hearing about it in a high school level psychology course way back in the day.

If it's a very well known fact then somebody here can provide the very well known empirical evidence.

[Imperializt Russia]

Kindly show me the business that Tommy Venables or Iranian suicide children created.

Because I was quite specifically talking about them; as the examples you gave.

Oh my fucking god. You're just being deliberately obtuse now. There isn't even a point to this any more. What the hell is wrong with you? Arguiing that Tommy Venables are businessmen? You are argueing with yourself at this point. Had a long day at work? Want to talk about it? Or should I just shut up and pour you a scotch? It sounds like you need one. Or two. Or a cask.

Uh-huh.

[Lady Scylla]

Religion gives a strong moral justification for homophobia. Without religion, I can't come to a rational reason why homophobia would exist without said person just being an asshole.

Edit: bloody phone