Should single men have right to exploit women's bodies?

[Ashmoria]

I'm personally glad we're keeping children women from consenting to an activity that helps both the family and surrogate objectifying and degrading themselves and their fellow women.

that's the problem, eh? supposing that you (impersonal you) know better than the woman herself what is best for her and her life.

personally I prefer to let women make their own decisions even if they turn out to be bad ones. the only thing I'm interested in is removing any element of force or coercion from decisions like this.

[Herador]

I'm personally glad we're keeping children women from consenting to an activity that helps both the family and surrogate objectifying and degrading themselves and their fellow women.

that's the problem, eh? supposing that you (impersonal you) know better than the woman herself what is best for her and her life.

personally I prefer to let women make their own decisions even if they turn out to be bad ones. the only thing I'm interested in is removing any element of force or coercion from decisions like this.

Was there any to begin with? Serious question, I've never been involved in any part of the adoption or surrogacy process, so I have no idea.

[Ashmoria]

that's the problem, eh? supposing that you (impersonal you) know better than the woman herself what is best for her and her life.

personally I prefer to let women make their own decisions even if they turn out to be bad ones. the only thing I'm interested in is removing any element of force or coercion from decisions like this.

Was there any to begin with? Serious question, I've never been involved in any part of the adoption or surrogacy process, so I have no idea.

I don't think so. except for personal pressure which I assume exists from time to time, things like pressuring your sister to carry a baby for you. there are some very one sided surrogacy contracts that ought to be illegal. that's a slightly different issue but I find it disturbing that the buyers have all the power and the provider next to none.

[Communist Ylisse]

Don't pretend you're a feminist. You're a transphobic manipulative ass. If you cared about women's rights, you wouldn't be trying to take their freedom. Nobody is being forced to bear a child here, there's a man who wants a child, and a woman who is willing to help. But of course, if you don't agree with her personal choices, she doesn't get to make them.

[New haven america]

I'm personally glad we're keeping children women from consenting to an activity that helps both the family and surrogate objectifying and degrading themselves and their fellow women.

that's the problem, eh? supposing that you (impersonal you) know better than the woman herself what is best for her and her life.

personally I prefer to let women make their own decisions even if they turn out to be bad ones. the only thing I'm interested in is removing any element of force or coercion from decisions like this.

Of course, a common sexist sentiment from the patriarchy.

When will you learn that to end sexism, we must follow the wise teachings of radical feminism?

[Ashmoria]

that's the problem, eh? supposing that you (impersonal you) know better than the woman herself what is best for her and her life.

personally I prefer to let women make their own decisions even if they turn out to be bad ones. the only thing I'm interested in is removing any element of force or coercion from decisions like this.

Of course, a common sexist sentiment from the patriarchy.

When will you learn that to end sexism, we must follow the wise teachings of radical feminism?

radical feminists are valuable in that they throw out ideas that ought to be considered (before being rejected) that's the role of radicals in most movements. (the ones where radicals are the ones that want to kill people, not so much)

[Galloism]

Of course, a common sexist sentiment from the patriarchy.

When will you learn that to end sexism, we must follow the wise teachings of radical feminism?

radical feminists are valuable in that they throw out ideas that ought to be considered (before being rejected) that's the role of radicals in most movements. (the ones where radicals are the ones that want to kill people, not so much)

Unfortunately, they're not being resoundingly rejected.

They're getting their sexist bullshit into law and public policy with disturbing effectiveness.

[Ashmoria]

radical feminists are valuable in that they throw out ideas that ought to be considered (before being rejected) that's the role of radicals in most movements. (the ones where radicals are the ones that want to kill people, not so much)

Unfortunately, they're not being resoundingly rejected.

They're getting their sexist bullshit into law and public policy with disturbing effectiveness.

if the public goes for it it may not be as bullshitty as you think. *shrug*

[Blackwing Coast]

The obvious solution is artifical wombs - no woman needed. Another intermediate solution would be to genetically modify animals to the point they accept human egg cells (which can be made from skin cells already).

And let's be honest here, we are going to need artifical wombs anyway, since the number of offspring seems to be inversely proportional to IQ, on average. We need more people with brains, so we have to make more.
Immigration is not a solution - faked or non-existing credentials and corresponding skills aside, there is also the potential problem of cultural and genetic displacement.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

Unfortunately, they're not being resoundingly rejected.

They're getting their sexist bullshit into law and public policy with disturbing effectiveness.

if the public goes for it it may not be as bullshitty as you think. *shrug*

The public has never been that smart, I doubt most would be able in the area of detecting bullshittery.

[Galloism]

Unfortunately, they're not being resoundingly rejected.

They're getting their sexist bullshit into law and public policy with disturbing effectiveness.

if the public goes for it it may not be as bullshitty as you think. *shrug*

No, making it only rape if a man does it to a woman is bullshitty.

Protecting rapists and domestic abusers based on their genitalia is bullshitty.

[Ashmoria]

if the public goes for it it may not be as bullshitty as you think. *shrug*

No, making it only rape if a man does it to a woman is bullshitty.

Protecting rapists and domestic abusers based on their genitalia is bullshitty.

is that NEW? seems to me that that has been status quo for centuries.

[Karsknev]

How many times does it need to be said that women doing something of their own free will that some feminists don't like is not fucking exploitation? This is seriously one of the most condescending, anti-woman attitudes you can take, and it doesn't even have the decency to admit what it is.

[Herador]

No, making it only rape if a man does it to a woman is bullshitty.

Protecting rapists and domestic abusers based on their genitalia is bullshitty.

is that NEW? seems to me that that has been status quo for centuries.

I mean, kinda. In some medieval societies a woman could rape a man, it's just that if a woman did rape you, your peers would consider you less than a man and only ostracize you if you were lucky. Same logic followed for domestic violence, at least in Medieval England. But toxic masculinity isn't a thing or something.

[Ashmoria]

is that NEW? seems to me that that has been status quo for centuries.

I mean, kinda. In some medieval societies a woman could rape a man, it's just that if a woman did rape you, your peers would consider you less than a man and only ostracize you if you were lucky. Same logic followed for domestic violence, at least in Medieval England. But toxic masculinity isn't a thing or something.

interesting. I hadn't heard that.

[Galloism]

No, making it only rape if a man does it to a woman is bullshitty.

Protecting rapists and domestic abusers based on their genitalia is bullshitty.

is that NEW? seems to me that that has been status quo for centuries.

Eh, not really.

Feminists fought to reverse a gender neutral rape law in India - and succeeded. Feminists fought to block a legal modernization of rape laws in Israel (a general process of modernization has been going on for years) to make them gender neutral - and succeeded.

Koss corrupted the CDC's methodology so most men who are rape victims are not counted as such.

Regarding DV, that's harder. It used to be DV was considered a domestic problem that the government should not get involved in - regardless of direction. Feminists fought to change that (as it should have been), then once research started surfacing showing violent women were as approximately common as violent men, spent 40 years and counting trying to bury that or excuse it - and have mostly succeeded.

Meanwhile, DV hotlines and shelters - most of which are run by feminist organizations - routinely mock men who are victims or accuse them of being the abuser. Police, who receive training in DV mostly from feminist organizations, are more likely to arrest a male victim than a female perpetrator.

These are all radical feminist notions which are now mainstream. They are "bullshitty" ideas born of feminism that are now public policy.

It's frightening, honestly. Imagine being a man who was raped or abused. You have nowhere to turn.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I mean, kinda. In some medieval societies a woman could rape a man, it's just that if a woman did rape you, your peers would consider you less than a man and only ostracize you if you were lucky. Same logic followed for domestic violence, at least in Medieval England. But toxic masculinity isn't a thing or something.

interesting. I hadn't heard that.

According to hearsay from a friend, if a man was abused by their wife or some other woman in their lives, they would be placed upon a donkey, naked and their limbs binded, to which they would have the donkey run around.

[Ashmoria]

interesting. I hadn't heard that.

According to hearsay from a friend, if a man was abused by their wife or some other woman in their lives, they would be placed upon a donkey, naked and their limbs binded, to which they would have the donkey run around.

that would seem to be the kind of thing that would mean a man wouldn't report his abuser.

[Herador]

I mean, kinda. In some medieval societies a woman could rape a man, it's just that if a woman did rape you, your peers would consider you less than a man and only ostracize you if you were lucky. Same logic followed for domestic violence, at least in Medieval England. But toxic masculinity isn't a thing or something.

interesting. I hadn't heard that.

It varies from kingdom to kingdom and occasionally even county to county, but it usually waffles between "Nah you had a boner you wanted it" and "Ok, it happened, but you're a huge pussy." as far as rape goes.

According to hearsay from a friend, if a man was abused by their wife or some other woman in their lives, they would be placed upon a donkey, naked and their limbs binded, to which they would have the donkey run around.

that would seem to be the kind of thing that would mean a man wouldn't report his abuser.

Most medieval European societies has a vested interest in keeping men appearing socially strong and capable. No one complains, there isn't a problem; simple right?

[Ashmoria]

interesting. I hadn't heard that.

It varies from kingdom to kingdom and occasionally even county to county, but it usually waffles between "Nah you had a boner you wanted it" and "Ok, it happened, but you're a huge pussy." as far as rape goes.

that would seem to be the kind of thing that would mean a man wouldn't report his abuser.

Most medieval European societies has a vested interest in keeping men appearing socially strong and capable. No one complains, there isn't a problem; simple right?

and still true today. few men ever complain of sexual abuse.

[Galloism]

It varies from kingdom to kingdom and occasionally even county to county, but it usually waffles between "Nah you had a boner you wanted it" and "Ok, it happened, but you're a huge pussy." as far as rape goes.


Most medieval European societies has a vested interest in keeping men appearing socially strong and capable. No one complains, there isn't a problem; simple right?

and still true today. few men ever complain of sexual abuse.

There's two reasons for that. One is that they don't think they can BE sexually abused or believe that they don't have a right to say no or that they exist in a default state of consent.

However, I help men online who are facing domestic and sexual violence and don't have anywhere else to turn, and I'd say a full 80% of them went to the police either before they first talked to me or after - and received responses along the lines that if they tried to pursue this, they would be charged with wasting police time/filing a false report, and that they would be better off to just turn around and leave.

It's amazing how, when threatened with charges for attempting to bring charges, most men back off.

[Ashmoria]

and still true today. few men ever complain of sexual abuse.

There's two reasons for that. One is that they don't think they can BE sexually abused or believe that they don't have a right to say no or that they exist in a default state of consent.

However, I help men online who are facing domestic and sexual violence and don't have anywhere else to turn, and I'd say a full 80% of them went to the police either before they first talked to me or after - and received responses along the lines that if they tried to pursue this, they would be charged with wasting police time/filing a false report, and that they would be better off to just turn around and leave.

It's amazing how, when threatened with charges for attempting to bring charges, most men back off.

in some ways that kind of thing is the last bastion of sexism.

[Galloism]

There's two reasons for that. One is that they don't think they can BE sexually abused or believe that they don't have a right to say no or that they exist in a default state of consent.

However, I help men online who are facing domestic and sexual violence and don't have anywhere else to turn, and I'd say a full 80% of them went to the police either before they first talked to me or after - and received responses along the lines that if they tried to pursue this, they would be charged with wasting police time/filing a false report, and that they would be better off to just turn around and leave.

It's amazing how, when threatened with charges for attempting to bring charges, most men back off.

in some ways that kind of thing is the last bastion of sexism.

Well, you can largely thank feminism, as a movement, for working overtime trying to keep that kind of sexism around.

#notallfeminists of course

[Ashmoria]

in some ways that kind of thing is the last bastion of sexism.

Well, you can largely thank feminism, as a movement, for working overtime trying to keep that kind of sexism around.

#notallfeminists of course

I doubt they spend a ton of time working to make sure the police give abused men the back of their hands.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well, you can largely thank feminism, as a movement, for working overtime trying to keep that kind of sexism around.

#notallfeminists of course

I doubt they spend a ton of time working to make sure the police give abused men the back of their hands.

https://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Stra ... -PV_10.pdf

You can doubt it, but it wouldn't change that many do.