Right Wing Discussion Thread V - Emperor's Holy Inquisition

[The Princes of the Universe]

So what would be emphasized more, individual responsibility or collective responsibility, when in the context of something like climate change, cultural preservation, or national development?

I'm not particularly convinced that the two can actually be separated like that. A collective responsibility isn't likely to be met without the individuals therein pulling their weight. So it's not really an either-or, but a both-and.

[Lady Scylla]

Ah, you edited it to add some. I feel all of those would be collective responsibility, simply because they affect large groups of people. Though, I've less concern over cultural preservation.

And as collective responsibility, would that land on merely the community acting through their own agency, or through institutions be it private or public (such as the state).

Both, while the public has the manpower, the state has the resources, and can enact legislation, so it should be cooperative between the State and the common man.

[Nusaresa]

So what would be emphasized more, individual responsibility or collective responsibility, when in the context of something like climate change, cultural preservation, or national development?

I'm not particularly convinced that the two can actually be separated like that. A collective responsibility isn't likely to be met without the individuals therein pulling their weight. So it's not really an either-or, but a both-and.

i did not do this question properly rip rop

Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?

And as collective responsibility, would that land on merely the community acting through their own agency, or through institutions be it private or public (such as the state).

Both, while the public has the manpower, the state has the resources, and can enact legislation, so it should be cooperative between the State and the common man.

Cooperation entails emphasis on the collective responsibility, which may come to odds with the self interests (be it inflated or not) of certain individuals. What then?

[Germanic Templars]

New thread smell.

Only smell better than that is CLP and spent brass.

[The Princes of the Universe]

I'm not particularly convinced that the two can actually be separated like that. A collective responsibility isn't likely to be met without the individuals therein pulling their weight. So it's not really an either-or, but a both-and.

i did not do this question properly rip rop
Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?

Oh. In that case, the call to action needs to be directed to the individual even if the ultimate goal is to get an entire community to reform. To direct it to the community will result in diffusion of responsibility and a lack of change.

[Nusaresa]

i did not do this question properly rip rop
Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?

Oh. In that case, the call to action needs to be directed to the individual even if the ultimate goal is to get an entire community to reform. To direct it to the community will result in diffusion of responsibility and a lack of change.

ding ding ding

What would be the best method? Education? Religious organizations (iirc this is how they got awareness of those death spirals in the midwest)? Seminars? Private or public sector?

By targeting the individual, small grouped individuals would be the most efficient way to deliver the message. There could still be some degree of diffusion of responsibility, but it is much more cost effective with such a method.

[Lady Scylla]

I'm not particularly convinced that the two can actually be separated like that. A collective responsibility isn't likely to be met without the individuals therein pulling their weight. So it's not really an either-or, but a both-and.

i did not do this question properly rip rop

Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?

Both, while the public has the manpower, the state has the resources, and can enact legislation, so it should be cooperative between the State and the common man.

Cooperation entails emphasis on the collective responsibility, which may come to odds with the self interests (be it inflated or not) of certain individuals. What then?

I suppose that depends on the type of government. Sociocracy would probably reduce that.

[Nusaresa]

i did not do this question properly rip rop

Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?

Cooperation entails emphasis on the collective responsibility, which may come to odds with the self interests (be it inflated or not) of certain individuals. What then?

I suppose that depends on the type of government. Sociocracy would probably reduce that.

sounds socialist

[Conscentia]

Sorry about the late response, East Marches...

This comes more to an economics question than anything. How do you trust a market, or in this case people, if they never have access to perfect information?

I don't trust them. I expect error. There simply isn't a better alternative.

We lack objectivity and are left with the scenario you previous mentioned. It is for this reason that I prefer finance to politics. Money is the best way of measuring outcomes because it affords some measure of objectivity. It gives us all a standard metric by which we can gauge things.

Money isn't the best measure simply because you find it convenient to discard all others. Money has no inherent objective value. It's value is intersubjective, and to some degree also subjective. In-fact, all value is subjective or at most intersubjective - which is essentially just a confluence of subjective values.

Therefore we must go back to the basics and strip away all the subjectivity. One rule prevails over all: might makes right. What makes up might? The answer history gives is money. If that is the case then it is money that ought to really rule the day. Rather put, the best political system is one that makes the nation as a whole as wealthy as possible.

Firstly, you haven't stripped away the subjectivity at all. Like I said earlier, the value of money itself isn't objective - it is intersubjective.
Secondly, "makes the nation as a whole as wealthy as possible"? What does that mean? Increase the sum wealth of the nation's constituents? Because simply making the rich richer still would do that, even while virtually no-one else benefits. You completely neglect the question of distribution.
Thirdly, it sounds like "wealth" and "money" here are simply an indirect measure of power or influence - which is what it seems you really value. Although, power and influence are simply means to obtain or maintain an end so it's not actually clear what you really value as you've also neglected to say what you want the wealthy to do with their money.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Oh. In that case, the call to action needs to be directed to the individual even if the ultimate goal is to get an entire community to reform. To direct it to the community will result in diffusion of responsibility and a lack of change.

ding ding ding
What would be the best method? Education? Religious organizations (iirc this is how they got awareness of those death spirals in the midwest)? Seminars? Private or public sector?

Yes.

[Nusaresa]

ding ding ding
What would be the best method? Education? Religious organizations (iirc this is how they got awareness of those death spirals in the midwest)? Seminars? Private or public sector?

Yes.

>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot

[The V O I D]

Yes.

>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot

What do you have against synths?

[The Princes of the Universe]

Yes.

>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot

I'm not a robot!
...
Ignore the sparks coming from my shoulderblade.

[Lady Scylla]

I suppose that depends on the type of government. Sociocracy would probably reduce that.

sounds socialist

Hardly. It's why I stated it depends largely on context, for such examples as you outlined, it'd make sense that collective responsibility would be more important, whereas in other cases, individual responsibility would be more important. You'd probably find a more decisive answer from someone with an actual ideology, or ideological leanings, but I'm a pragmatist and largely try and avoid such decisions being made based off left-right leanings. The only thing I'm interested in is technological progression.

[Geilinor]

Cooperation entails emphasis on the collective responsibility, which may come to odds with the self interests (be it inflated or not) of certain individuals. What then?

Individuals have the responsibility to cooperate when a problem can only be solved collectively.

[Novjistrania]

>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot

What do you have against synths?

REMOVE SYNTH

[Balkenreich]

>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot

What do you have against synths?

....

FUCKING REEEEE

REMOVE.

[Kravanica]

So lads, what shall be the controversial topic for today's discussion?

[Minzerland II]

[-Fahrong-]

So I have heard that King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand has passed away. The Thai people have my condolences, may he Rest In Peace.

[Conscentia]

So I have heard that King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand has passed away. The Thai people have my condolences, may he Rest In Peace.

There is a thread regarding that here, if you're interested:
https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=391528

[Conserative Morality]

So lads, what shall be the controversial topic for today's discussion?

The Jews

Community. Community and its collapse is a big right-wing thing, right?

Fuck communities, man. People wanting to be connected by institutions and shit instead of a series of connected individuals.

[Isyrannaea]

So I have heard that King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand has passed away. The Thai people have my condolences, may he Rest In Peace.

Hopefully Thailand doesn't devolve into a republic.

[PaNTuXIa]

So I have heard that King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand has passed away. The Thai people have my condolences, may he Rest In Peace.

Hopefully Thailand doesn't devolve into a republic.

Yeah, I hope they become a confederacy of autonomous anarchist communities.

Oh wait, that's probably not what you had in mind.

Also, Dushan is a Trump supporter now?

[PaNTuXIa]

So lads, what shall be the controversial topic for today's discussion?

The Jews

Community. Community and its collapse is a big right-wing thing, right?

Fuck communities, man. People wanting to be connected by institutions and shit instead of a series of connected individuals.

If right-wingers love community so much, why do they hate communism?