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Right Wing Discussion Thread V - Emperor's Holy Inquisition

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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US Presidential Election Poll - RWDT Edition

Poll ended at Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:10 am

Hillary Clinton
94
25%
Donald Trump
173
46%
Gary Johnson
47
12%
Jill Stein
16
4%
Evan McMullin
20
5%
Darrell Castle
8
2%
Other
20
5%
 
Total votes : 378

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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:15 am

Nusaresa wrote:So what would be emphasized more, individual responsibility or collective responsibility, when in the context of something like climate change, cultural preservation, or national development?

I'm not particularly convinced that the two can actually be separated like that. A collective responsibility isn't likely to be met without the individuals therein pulling their weight. So it's not really an either-or, but a both-and.
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Lady Scylla
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Postby Lady Scylla » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:15 am

Nusaresa wrote:
Lady Scylla wrote:
Ah, you edited it to add some. I feel all of those would be collective responsibility, simply because they affect large groups of people. Though, I've less concern over cultural preservation.

And as collective responsibility, would that land on merely the community acting through their own agency, or through institutions be it private or public (such as the state).


Both, while the public has the manpower, the state has the resources, and can enact legislation, so it should be cooperative between the State and the common man.

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Nusaresa
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Postby Nusaresa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:19 am

The Princes of the Universe wrote:
Nusaresa wrote:So what would be emphasized more, individual responsibility or collective responsibility, when in the context of something like climate change, cultural preservation, or national development?

I'm not particularly convinced that the two can actually be separated like that. A collective responsibility isn't likely to be met without the individuals therein pulling their weight. So it's not really an either-or, but a both-and.

i did not do this question properly rip rop

Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?
Lady Scylla wrote:
Nusaresa wrote:And as collective responsibility, would that land on merely the community acting through their own agency, or through institutions be it private or public (such as the state).


Both, while the public has the manpower, the state has the resources, and can enact legislation, so it should be cooperative between the State and the common man.

Cooperation entails emphasis on the collective responsibility, which may come to odds with the self interests (be it inflated or not) of certain individuals. What then?
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Germanic Templars
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Postby Germanic Templars » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:24 am

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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:26 am

Nusaresa wrote:
The Princes of the Universe wrote:I'm not particularly convinced that the two can actually be separated like that. A collective responsibility isn't likely to be met without the individuals therein pulling their weight. So it's not really an either-or, but a both-and.

i did not do this question properly rip rop
Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?

Oh. In that case, the call to action needs to be directed to the individual even if the ultimate goal is to get an entire community to reform. To direct it to the community will result in diffusion of responsibility and a lack of change.
Pro dolorosa Eius passione, miserere nobis et totius mundi.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti.
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Nusaresa
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Postby Nusaresa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:38 am

The Princes of the Universe wrote:
Nusaresa wrote:i did not do this question properly rip rop
Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?

Oh. In that case, the call to action needs to be directed to the individual even if the ultimate goal is to get an entire community to reform. To direct it to the community will result in diffusion of responsibility and a lack of change.

ding ding ding

What would be the best method? Education? Religious organizations (iirc this is how they got awareness of those death spirals in the midwest)? Seminars? Private or public sector?

By targeting the individual, small grouped individuals would be the most efficient way to deliver the message. There could still be some degree of diffusion of responsibility, but it is much more cost effective with such a method.
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Lady Scylla
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Postby Lady Scylla » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:38 am

Nusaresa wrote:
The Princes of the Universe wrote:I'm not particularly convinced that the two can actually be separated like that. A collective responsibility isn't likely to be met without the individuals therein pulling their weight. So it's not really an either-or, but a both-and.

i did not do this question properly rip rop

Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?
Lady Scylla wrote:
Both, while the public has the manpower, the state has the resources, and can enact legislation, so it should be cooperative between the State and the common man.

Cooperation entails emphasis on the collective responsibility, which may come to odds with the self interests (be it inflated or not) of certain individuals. What then?


I suppose that depends on the type of government. Sociocracy would probably reduce that.

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Nusaresa
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Postby Nusaresa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:39 am

Lady Scylla wrote:
Nusaresa wrote:i did not do this question properly rip rop

Aside from that. I'm asking what should be emphasized more in the greater context of appeal. Say there is an issue (environmental degradation) and something should be done. What would be more emphasized as to support the reduction of environmental degradation an example)?

Cooperation entails emphasis on the collective responsibility, which may come to odds with the self interests (be it inflated or not) of certain individuals. What then?


I suppose that depends on the type of government. Sociocracy would probably reduce that.

sounds socialist
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Nusaresa welcomes you.
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Conscentia
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Postby Conscentia » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:39 am

Sorry about the late response, East Marches...

The East Marches wrote:This comes more to an economics question than anything. How do you trust a market, or in this case people, if they never have access to perfect information?

I don't trust them. I expect error. There simply isn't a better alternative.

The East Marches wrote:We lack objectivity and are left with the scenario you previous mentioned. It is for this reason that I prefer finance to politics. Money is the best way of measuring outcomes because it affords some measure of objectivity. It gives us all a standard metric by which we can gauge things.

Money isn't the best measure simply because you find it convenient to discard all others. Money has no inherent objective value. It's value is intersubjective, and to some degree also subjective. In-fact, all value is subjective or at most intersubjective - which is essentially just a confluence of subjective values.

The East Marches wrote:Therefore we must go back to the basics and strip away all the subjectivity. One rule prevails over all: might makes right. What makes up might? The answer history gives is money. If that is the case then it is money that ought to really rule the day. Rather put, the best political system is one that makes the nation as a whole as wealthy as possible.

Firstly, you haven't stripped away the subjectivity at all. Like I said earlier, the value of money itself isn't objective - it is intersubjective.
Secondly, "makes the nation as a whole as wealthy as possible"? What does that mean? Increase the sum wealth of the nation's constituents? Because simply making the rich richer still would do that, even while virtually no-one else benefits. You completely neglect the question of distribution.
Thirdly, it sounds like "wealth" and "money" here are simply an indirect measure of power or influence - which is what it seems you really value. Although, power and influence are simply means to obtain or maintain an end so it's not actually clear what you really value as you've also neglected to say what you want the wealthy to do with their money.
Last edited by Conscentia on Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:43 am

Nusaresa wrote:
The Princes of the Universe wrote:Oh. In that case, the call to action needs to be directed to the individual even if the ultimate goal is to get an entire community to reform. To direct it to the community will result in diffusion of responsibility and a lack of change.

ding ding ding
What would be the best method? Education? Religious organizations (iirc this is how they got awareness of those death spirals in the midwest)? Seminars? Private or public sector?

Yes. :p
Pro dolorosa Eius passione, miserere nobis et totius mundi.

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Nusaresa
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Postby Nusaresa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:47 am

The Princes of the Universe wrote:
Nusaresa wrote:ding ding ding
What would be the best method? Education? Religious organizations (iirc this is how they got awareness of those death spirals in the midwest)? Seminars? Private or public sector?

Yes. :p

>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot
The Republic of Nusaresa

A Southeast Asian getaway with long unbroken beaches, many historical sites, and a world class quality of life. Enjoy a pleasant dinner at the many restaurants, snorkeling at the pristine lagoon, or discover the Nusarese heritage through a tour of the country.

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The V O I D
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Postby The V O I D » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:50 am

Nusaresa wrote:
The Princes of the Universe wrote:Yes. :p

>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot


What do you have against synths?

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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:53 am

Nusaresa wrote:
The Princes of the Universe wrote:Yes. :p

>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot

I'm not a robot! >:(
...
Ignore the sparks coming from my shoulderblade. :oops:
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Lady Scylla
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Postby Lady Scylla » Thu Oct 13, 2016 11:56 am

Nusaresa wrote:
Lady Scylla wrote:
I suppose that depends on the type of government. Sociocracy would probably reduce that.

sounds socialist


Hardly. It's why I stated it depends largely on context, for such examples as you outlined, it'd make sense that collective responsibility would be more important, whereas in other cases, individual responsibility would be more important. You'd probably find a more decisive answer from someone with an actual ideology, or ideological leanings, but I'm a pragmatist and largely try and avoid such decisions being made based off left-right leanings. The only thing I'm interested in is technological progression.

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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:15 pm

Nusaresa wrote:Cooperation entails emphasis on the collective responsibility, which may come to odds with the self interests (be it inflated or not) of certain individuals. What then?

Individuals have the responsibility to cooperate when a problem can only be solved collectively.
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Novjistrania
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Postby Novjistrania » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:31 pm

The V O I D wrote:
Nusaresa wrote:>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot


What do you have against synths?

REMOVE SYNTH
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Balkenreich
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Postby Balkenreich » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:34 pm

The V O I D wrote:
Nusaresa wrote:>tfw princes of the universe is actually a robot


What do you have against synths?

....

FUCKING REEEEE

REMOVE.
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Kravanica
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Postby Kravanica » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:28 pm

So lads, what shall be the controversial topic for today's discussion?
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Minzerland II
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Postby Minzerland II » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:46 pm

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-Fahrong-
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Postby -Fahrong- » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:49 pm

So I have heard that King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand has passed away. The Thai people have my condolences, may he Rest In Peace.
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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:53 pm

Kravanica wrote:So lads, what shall be the controversial topic for today's discussion?

The Jews

Community. Community and its collapse is a big right-wing thing, right?

Fuck communities, man. People wanting to be connected by institutions and shit instead of a series of connected individuals.
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Isyrannaea
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Postby Isyrannaea » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:56 pm

-Fahrong- wrote:So I have heard that King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand has passed away. The Thai people have my condolences, may he Rest In Peace.

Hopefully Thailand doesn't devolve into a republic.
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PaNTuXIa
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Postby PaNTuXIa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:07 pm

Isyrannaea wrote:
-Fahrong- wrote:So I have heard that King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand has passed away. The Thai people have my condolences, may he Rest In Peace.

Hopefully Thailand doesn't devolve into a republic.

Yeah, I hope they become a confederacy of autonomous anarchist communities.

Oh wait, that's probably not what you had in mind.

Also, Dushan is a Trump supporter now?
Last edited by PaNTuXIa on Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PaNTuXIa wrote:>swedish
>conservatism

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PaNTuXIa
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Postby PaNTuXIa » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:08 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Kravanica wrote:So lads, what shall be the controversial topic for today's discussion?

The Jews

Community. Community and its collapse is a big right-wing thing, right?

Fuck communities, man. People wanting to be connected by institutions and shit instead of a series of connected individuals.

If right-wingers love community so much, why do they hate communism?
I support Open Borders for Israel.
United Marxist Nations wrote:Anime has ruined my life.

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:
PaNTuXIa wrote:>swedish
>conservatism

Islamic nations tend to be right wing.

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