US Gen. Election Thread V: The Hunt for Red October Surprise

[San Lumen]

I did not say that.

Then what does the turnout rate have to do with whether or not the GOP wins over minority groups?

Because 37 percent turnout does not accurately reflect the country. Look at Presidential turnout in 2012. I can assure you the Republican Party will not win the Latino, Asian or Native American vote. They will likely get record low numbers.

[Arlenton]

Then what does the turnout rate have to do with whether or not the GOP wins over minority groups?

Because 37 percent turnout does not accurately reflect the country. Look at Presidential turnout in 2012. I can assure you the Republican Party will not win the Latino, Asian or Native American vote. They will likely get record low numbers.

That's true, nominating a fool like Trump will do that.

But what does the turnout rate have to do with voter reflection? The GOP did a better job of getting Asians and Native Americans to the polls than the Democrats, meaning that in that election those groups were won over by the GOP. If that weren't true, then they would have been won by the Democrats.

[Othelos]

One way to improve our lives is to continue integrating non-whites into our society, considering non-whites are where most population growth in the US (and the world) is coming from.

Doing so would come at the expense of Whites.

This is where you are wrong.

Immigration (most of which for several decades has primarily been of non-white immigrants) has benefited our economy enormously. We are strong together as a nation, regardless of our color, religion, gender, sexuality and other characteristics.

It's in the interest of every American that we ensure our society be as cohesive as possible, and that includes playing nice with all citizens. The cat is already out of the bag; whites are never going to become super-dominant like in the past, because our birth rates are too low. You should enjoy your life and stop worrying so much about an enemy that doesn't exist.

[Maichuko]

Now I think the Republican Party is trying to tank most minority groups from supporting them.

I think Trump did a great job alienating both Hispanic and Muslim voters in the same year. As a Mexican american who never bothered to learn Spanish and wanted to be Republican this election. I can say I initially tried looking past Trumps "rapist' comments and his stupid idea to build a wall. But a few weeks in I knew he was just an idiot and when Cruz dropped out, I knew who ever the Democrats nominated was going to be this countries only hope. My only regret is that it wasn't Sanders.

[Migdal Bavel]

One way to improve our lives is to continue integrating non-whites into our society, considering non-whites are where most population growth in the US (and the world) is coming from.

Doing so would come at the expense of Whites because it would have the effect of shrinking the White population further than otherwise. I don't think it is viable or realistic to put a stop to all non-White advancement, but I do want it to be somewhat slowed or managed in a controlled way so that Whites at least have some sliver left rather than being completely overrun and perhaps ceasing to exist as a consequence.

Fallacy of composition - you can make the argument that shrinking the white population is bad for 'Whites' as a group, but that doesn't mean it would be bad for individual white people.
If every individual white person would have a better life, why do you care about the group?
And if you don't think that, why would shrinking the white population affect individual white people?

[Senkaku]

And the sun will swallow us all in a billion years anyway.

Like Johnson said "Fixing shit doesn't matter because we all are going to die"

Death solves all problems, comrade. If we were to, say, goad President Trump into sterilizing the Earth with atomic flame, all our problems would vanish into wisps of dust and plasma!

[Gauthier]

Like Johnson said "Fixing shit doesn't matter because we all are going to die"

Death solves all problems, comrade. If we were to, say, goad President Trump into sterilizing the Earth with atomic flame, all our problems would vanish into wisps of dust and plasma!

Except of course when the universe decides to be a bastard and instead of dying with others you survive as a horribly irradiated mutant.

[New Werpland]

Doing so would come at the expense of Whites.

This is where you are wrong.

Immigration (most of which for several decades has primarily been of non-white immigrants) has benefited our economy enormously. We are strong together as a nation, regardless of our color, religion, gender, sexuality and other characteristics.

It's in the interest of every American that we ensure our society be as cohesive as possible, and that includes playing nice with all citizens. The cat is already out of the bag; whites are never going to become super-dominant like in the past, because our birth rates are too low. You should enjoy your life and stop worrying so much about an enemy that doesn't exist.

I know how to save the Whites. Encourage Arabs (who are classified as "White" under the Census Bureau) from countries with high fertility ratings to immigrate.

[Saiwania]

It's in the interest of every American that we ensure our society be as cohesive as possible, and that includes playing nice with all citizens. The cat is already out of the bag; whites are never going to become super-dominant like in the past, because our birth rates are too low. You should enjoy your life and stop worrying so much about an enemy that doesn't exist.

What I prefer is for people to coexist but to live in their own little corners. Self segregation being the accepted norm, but for integration being limited to certain settings and otherwise mostly being voluntary for people who wish to mix while still allowing an out for people who don't want to mix. I don't expect Whites to keep being super dominant, I'd be satisfied if Whites simply kept existing as a majority somewhere on this planet and didn't wind up becoming extinct.

The question for me is whether Whites will be able to ride out this historical period of decline until the other racial groups have birth rates just as low as Whites or whether non-Whites keep having sky high birth rates and just take over the entire world with Whites retreating until virtually non-existent.

[Senkaku]

Death solves all problems, comrade. If we were to, say, goad President Trump into sterilizing the Earth with atomic flame, all our problems would vanish into wisps of dust and plasma!

Except of course when the universe decides to be a bastard and instead of dying with others you survive as a horribly irradiated mutant.

If he modernizes our nuclear program first and we get a few decent salted bombs, there's no much chance of that.

But on the bright side, if you survived the initial radiation dose, and the thermal bursts and shockwaves of nearby strikes, you probably wouldn't survive for that long. And Senators Topol and Dong Feng would have moved to impeach President Trump, as well.

[Senkaku]

It's in the interest of every American that we ensure our society be as cohesive as possible, and that includes playing nice with all citizens. The cat is already out of the bag; whites are never going to become super-dominant like in the past, because our birth rates are too low. You should enjoy your life and stop worrying so much about an enemy that doesn't exist.

What I prefer is for people to coexist but to live in their own little corners.

"i'm uncomfortable around darkies solely because they're dark and rationalize it to myself"

I don't expect Whites to keep being super dominant, I'd be satisfied if Whites simply kept existing as a majority somewhere on this planet and didn't wind up becoming extinct.

Whites aren't a species, so "extinction" is a misnomer. It's also not really grammatically correct to capitalize "white" so much.

The real question is- why do you give a shit about keeping white people specifically separate? Is there any advantage to racial purity? (That's a rhetorical question, the answer is no)

This is where you are wrong.

Immigration (most of which for several decades has primarily been of non-white immigrants) has benefited our economy enormously. We are strong together as a nation, regardless of our color, religion, gender, sexuality and other characteristics.

It's in the interest of every American that we ensure our society be as cohesive as possible, and that includes playing nice with all citizens. The cat is already out of the bag; whites are never going to become super-dominant like in the past, because our birth rates are too low. You should enjoy your life and stop worrying so much about an enemy that doesn't exist.

I know how to save the Whites. Encourage Arabs (who are classified as "White" under the Census Bureau) from countries with high fertility ratings to immigrate.

Say, I hear there's a bunch of Arabs who could probably pass from some country having a civil war who want in.

[The Adonalsium]

how did this turn into an odd KKK post with cletus and cletus discussing white genocide?
Oh yeah.. the Drumpf factor

[Tsaraine]

how did this turn into an odd KKK post with cletus and cletus discussing white genocide?
Oh yeah.. the Drumpf factor

*** Warned for political nicknaming and flaming ***

The use of "cletus" (a derogatory stereotype of people from a particular region of the United States) to refer to other posters is clearly meant in a derogatory fashion; likewise, the use of "Drumpf" to refer to Donald J. Trump serves no purpose except to annoy his supporters.

~ Tsar the Mod

[Agritum]

Well, now I want to see what will be the upcoming Donald comeback theories.

[Tsaraine]

Well, now I want to see what will be the upcoming Donald comeback theories.

Well, the basal belief of Trump thought seems to be that information from non-ideologically-pure sources (IE, information showing Trump doing badly) is lies perpetrated by a corrupt media establishment in cahoots with international bankers to put Hillary Clinton in the Oval Office. It's a perfect filter, in that it permits only good news to permeate in from the outer world. So Donald doesn't need to "comeback" because he's already winning, and if the outcome doesn't show that on election day it's not because he lost, it's because Hillary cheated by rigging the election. Inside the bubble, there is no scenario in which Donald actually legitimately loses.

[Alien Space Bats]

So, what actually happens if Trump contests the election on November 8?

Would it be an Al Gore style challenge, demanding a recount? Or a law suit against the FEC? Or something else?

I'm much more concerned about that than most people. Here's why:

Let's suppose that on November 9th, Trump begins spending every day out in the hustings, holding rallies and screaming that the election was bogus. He goes on to demand that Republicans in Congress "do something" to fix the situation. Let's further stipulate that Republicans manage to hold on to the Senate (unlikely but still possible, especially if the GOP essentially runs as far away from him as fast as they can).

So December 19th rolls around, and the Electoral College casts its 538 votes. Hillary wins 350, Trump wins 176, McMullin wins 6, 2 renegade Democratic Electors vote for Sanders, and 4 renegade Trump Electors cast their votes for Paul Ryan.

Now Congress meets on January 3rd, and the Electoral Vote totals are read to both chambers in joint session by Vice President Biden. As each State casts its ballots for somebody other that Trump, Jeff Sessions and Steve King (on Senator and one Congressman) rise to challenge every EV cast for anybody other than Donald Trump and Mike Pence.

According to election law, the two bodies must then retire to their separate chambers to consider these challenges. Trump and his supporters, meanwhile, make it very clear that ANY Republican who doesn't vote to invalidate ALL non-Trump EVs on the grounds of "rampant vote fraud" will be primaried in 2018 as "traitors" (or worse).

So here's the question: Do these Republican Congressmen and Senators have the strength to stand up to the Trumpists, especially when they've been out there screaming every day since November 9th that the election was "rigged" by "Crooked Hillary" and the "political establishment", considering that voting to officially recognize the election results would be taken as absolute proof that said Congressman or Senator is a member of the "corrupt political establishment" and therefore an "enemy of the American people"?

Or do they knuckle under and confirm ONLY the 176 EV's cast for Trump and Pence, forcing the Senate to choose a Vice President (in a race where the only choices are Pence, Pence, and Pence [since all other votes have been invalidated]) and the House to choose a President (in a race between Trump, Trump, and Trump [since, again, all other votes have been invalidated])?

I'd like to think that they'd have the guts to go ahead and accept the election results; but given the lack of courage Republicans have displayed to date, I wouldn't count on it.

Especially if Russian hackers produce visible irregularities, which the media would (rightly) blame on the Russians, only to have Trump openly blame them on "Crooked Hillary" and the "corrupt political establishment".

It's a nightmare scenario. Hopefully, that's ALL it is.

[Tsaraine]

I think your scenario would depend on how badly Trump loses; if it's close he might have a shot at swaying the spaghetti spines of Republican congressmen, but if it's a blowout for Hillary (and everything suggests it will be) they'll see which way the wind is blowing and discover their courage down behind the couch cushions - similarly to the way that they started disowning him when his poll numbers dropped low enough that his victory started to look like long odds. It's rather similar to the way a Republican in a thoroughly blue state feels free to vote their conscience, rather than along party lines, because their support won't affect the outcome.

Trump's influence will only go down after the election, when he's back to being a bad businessman with a hearing for rape coming up. I think it's more likely that the Republican electorate shuffles their feet, looks at each other, and collectively agrees never to mention Donald Trump again (after all, they developed a similar memory gap about Bush Junior when he started polling extremely poorly towards the end of his second term and after it).

Overall, I think a scenario in which Trump can exert that much pressure on Congress is a scenario in which Trump has already won the Presidency.

[Alien Space Bats]

Chinese steel.

Oh that was good too - and that it was her fault he bought illegal chinese steel because she couldn't stop him.

You know, Chinese steel is cheap for a reason: It's poor quality garbage, brittle as shit.

The fact that Trump uses it in his buildings tells you all you need to know about the man, really.

[Migdal Bavel]

I'm much more concerned about that than most people. Here's why:

Let's suppose that on November 9th, Trump begins spending every day out in the hustings, holding rallies and screaming that the election was bogus. He goes on to demand that Republicans in Congress "do something" to fix the situation. Let's further stipulate that Republicans manage to hold on to the Senate (unlikely but still possible, especially if the GOP essentially runs as far away from him as fast as they can).

So December 19th rolls around, and the Electoral College casts its 538 votes. Hillary wins 350, Trump wins 176, McMullin wins 6, 2 renegade Democratic Electors vote for Sanders, and 4 renegade Trump Electors cast their votes for Paul Ryan.

Now Congress meets on January 3rd, and the Electoral Vote totals are read to both chambers in joint session by Vice President Biden. As each State casts its ballots for somebody other that Trump, Jeff Sessions and Steve King (on Senator and one Congressman) rise to challenge every EV cast for anybody other than Donald Trump and Mike Pence.

According to election law, the two bodies must then retire to their separate chambers to consider these challenges. Trump and his supporters, meanwhile, make it very clear that ANY Republican who doesn't vote to invalidate ALL non-Trump EVs on the grounds of "rampant vote fraud" will be primaried in 2018 as "traitors" (or worse).

So here's the question: Do these Republican Congressmen and Senators have the strength to stand up to the Trumpists, especially when they've been out there screaming every day since November 9th that the election was "rigged" by "Crooked Hillary" and the "political establishment", considering that voting to officially recognize the election results would be taken as absolute proof that said Congressman or Senator is a member of the "corrupt political establishment" and therefore an "enemy of the American people"?

Or do they knuckle under and confirm ONLY the 176 EV's cast for Trump and Pence, forcing the Senate to choose a Vice President (in a race where the only choices are Pence, Pence, and Pence [since all other votes have been invalidated]) and the House to choose a President (in a race between Trump, Trump, and Trump [since, again, all other votes have been invalidated])?

I'd like to think that they'd have the guts to go ahead and accept the election results; but given the lack of courage Republicans have displayed to date, I wouldn't count on it.

Especially if Russian hackers produce visible irregularities, which the media would (rightly) blame on the Russians, only to have Trump openly blame them on "Crooked Hillary" and the "corrupt political establishment".

It's a nightmare scenario. Hopefully, that's ALL it is.

I normally really respect what you post, ASB, but I honestly don't think this is a realistic scenario. The thing is, being primaried in 2018 isn't enough of a threat. Because for any Republican not in a completely safe seat, voting down a clear democratic mandate just is going to lose you your 2018 elction.
Plus, if it were to be voted down, you wouldn't get anyone who wasn't a Republican voting for Trump - so even with a Republican senate, you'd need very few Republicans to defect. I can see a quarter, or even a third of each Chamber going along with it, but not a majority.
(Out of curiosity, what happens if the Senate votes to recognise the results, and the House votes them down?)

[Alien Space Bats]

I normally really respect what you post, ASB, but I honestly don't think this is a realistic scenario. The thing is, being primaried in 2018 isn't enough of a threat. Because for any Republican not in a completely safe seat, voting down a clear democratic mandate just is going to lose you your 2018 elction.
Plus, if it were to be voted down, you wouldn't get anyone who wasn't a Republican voting for Trump - so even with a Republican senate, you'd need very few Republicans to defect. I can see a quarter, or even a third of each Chamber going along with it, but not a majority.
(Out of curiosity, what happens if the Senate votes to recognise the results, and the House votes them down?)

Both chambers need to reject the results for them to be overturned. The vote is conducted on an objection-by-objection basis, which probably means a State-by-State basis.

I agree that the odds against this happening are slim, but even a failed attempt to pull this off would do grave damage to our system.

And it would undoubtedly be the first shot in the GOP Civil War.

ADDENDUM: I actually think that the WIDER Hillary's margin, the more intense the cries of "Fraud!" will get — because if she wins by 12%, that will be absolute PROOF of corruption in the minds of people who didn't think it possible that she could ever win at all.

[Galloism]

Conway: Donald Trump has a "five point plan to defeat Islam."

Freudian slip?

[Vassenor]

So what I'm hearing is that Trump crashed and burned quite spectacularly, to the point of saying he would not accept any result where he didn't win.

Huh.

[Galloism]

So what I'm hearing is that Trump crashed and burned quite spectacularly, to the point of saying he would not accept any result where he didn't win.

Huh.

Well, that was the implication, but those were not his exact words.

When they asked him if he'd accept the results of the election, he said he'd have to wait and see.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So what I'm hearing is that Trump crashed and burned quite spectacularly, to the point of saying he would not accept any result where he didn't win.

Huh.

I don't feel he crashed and burned on the debate.

He got thoroughly wiped on the immigration segment when Clinton decided to attack him on Russia and WikiLeaks, but I felt he managed to come back up from that gaffe to score a few well-landed points against Clinton after reviewing the transcripts.

[Galloism]

Ok, so credit where credit's due, #DrainTheSwamp is a good slogan.