US Gen. Election Thread V: The Hunt for Red October Surprise

[Eol Sha]

At least no one died due to Johnson's gaffe. Can't say the same for Clinton.

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I suppose we can't say her vote for the Iraq War? Probably a bit more than a gaffe.

[The Romulan Republic]

I wonder if we're going to have Benghazi the 9th after the election.

At this rate, we might start titling them like we do movies.

oh I think they will skip another Benghazi committee and go right to the impeachment committee.

Yes, I'm honestly half-expecting impeachment charges on inauguration day. Followed by a pitiful defeat in the Senate, given the way this election is going.

[Gauthier]

Wonder what High Crime or Misdemeanor they'll use as an excuse?

Benghazi.

[Starts Raining]

[Ebliania]

oh I think they will skip another Benghazi committee and go right to the impeachment committee.

Wonder what High Crime or Misdemeanor they'll use as an excuse?

Clinton stole the election, murdered her opponents, and is a democrat

that should be enough

[The Liberated Territories]

At least no one died due to Johnson's gaffe. Can't say the same for Clinton.

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

[The Romulan Republic]

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I suppose we can't say her vote for the Iraq War? Probably a bit more than a gaffe.

To be fair, you can hardly put all the responsibility for the war and its deaths on her. It likely would have passed with or without her vote (though I suppose she would have had as good a chance as anyone of rallying votes against it if she were so inclined). And the Bush Administration were the chief instigators.

[The Romulan Republic]

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

The idea that because he is non-interventionist its okay for him not to know about other countries is completely nonsensical.

Non-interventionist or not, a President must be aware of events in the world, how they might affect America and its allies, and how to negotiate with the leaders of other countries.

[Eol Sha]

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

Those aren't "gaffes", mind you.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Wonder what High Crime or Misdemeanor they'll use as an excuse?

Benghazi.

No, this time there will be 10 committees just to investigate the emails.

Because, you know, we must pick apart even the most insignificant syllable from her words, phonetic meaning when read, and their literary interpretations as well as linguistic consequences in order to truly understand what happened at her private server.

Only then will we achieve true justice, and the American people will know the absolute truth behind Clinton's corruption. Or something.

[Gauthier]

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

Something Something James Comey Is A Clinton Crony Something Something Ben-Gha-Zhi

[Rain Intensifies]

[The Lone Alliance]

Not in the country as a whole but inside the GOP? I'd run for the hills. They're never going to be the same. Trump talked about McArthur and Patton spinning in their graves, I'm sure Lincoln and TR and Ike are doing the same.

If this is a civil war then what exactly are the 'sides'?

It's a nationalist versus Globalist thing, just like Europe.

Basically it's shaping up that the GOP is going to fragment between Nationalist Trump Republicans and Neo Liberal Free Trade Republicans.

It's not going to be pretty, in fact I actually expect it might get violent.

Trump has just successfully turned the narrative that if he loses it'll be because of GOP sabotage.

[Eol Sha]

I suppose we can't say her vote for the Iraq War? Probably a bit more than a gaffe.

To be fair, you can hardly put all the responsibility for the war and its deaths on her. It likely would have passed with or without her vote (though I suppose she would have had as good a chance as anyone of rallying votes against it if she were so inclined). And the Bush Administration were the chief instigators.

Of course I can't, but I can blame her for not standing up until it was far too late.

[The Romulan Republic]

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

Oh, not this Benghazi bullshit again.

Clinton has been clear by, what, close to a dozen investigations on it? Including partisan Republican investigation?

Let's call this what it is- a pathetic attempt by the far Right to manufacture a pretext to accuse their political opponents of treason.

[Galloism]

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

Oh, not this Benghazi bullshit again.

Clinton has been clear by, what, close to a dozen investigations on it? Including partisan Republican investigation?

Let's call this what it is- a pathetic attempt by the far Right to manufacture a pretext to accuse their political opponents of treason.

Eight partisan congressional investigations, which found bupkis.

Dunno about noncongressional investigations, if any.

[Ashmoria]

oh I think they will skip another Benghazi committee and go right to the impeachment committee.

Wonder what High Crime or Misdemeanor they'll use as an excuse?

benghazi

[Vassenor]

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

Oh, not this Benghazi bullshit again.

Clinton has been clear by, what, close to a dozen investigations on it? Including partisan Republican investigation?

Let's call this what it is- a pathetic attempt by the far Right to manufacture a pretext to accuse their political opponents of treason.

Investigations explicitly intended to do nothing except derail her chances of getting elected. Which as we can see worked swimmingly.

[Ashmoria]

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I suppose we can't say her vote for the Iraq War? Probably a bit more than a gaffe.

doesn't fit the definition of gaffe.

[Eol Sha]

I suppose we can't say her vote for the Iraq War? Probably a bit more than a gaffe.

doesn't fit the definition of gaffe.

Just as well then.

[The Liberated Territories]

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

The idea that because he is non-interventionist its okay for him not to know about other countries is completely nonsensical.

Non-interventionist or not, a President must be aware of events in the world, how they might affect America and its allies, and how to negotiate with the leaders of other countries.

I doubt you'd get any human being to recite every country in the world from a list. There is like what, over 200? And then we go into the oddities of what constitutes as a country. Perhaps if we told Obama - or even Clinton - to recite every country she'll ultimately fail. And then you'd probably be defending her if she forgets North Korea, because who could forget Best Korea? Best Korea is always in the news.

Same with Aleppo. I'll give you that it is in the news now, but it'll likely be forgotten as the war moves to a different location. Many cities in the Middle East, but they are all being targeted by the same policies enacted by the neocons. That's not necessary to understand the consequences of the policies that lead to Aleppo being besieged in the first place. I think that is more important.

[The Romulan Republic]

Wonder what High Crime or Misdemeanor they'll use as an excuse?

benghazi

Yes, the Alt Right's pet pretext for purging the opposition on Trumped up charges.

Some of them have even said they want Clinton executed for it.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Oh, not this Benghazi bullshit again.

Clinton has been clear by, what, close to a dozen investigations on it? Including partisan Republican investigation?

Let's call this what it is- a pathetic attempt by the far Right to manufacture a pretext to accuse their political opponents of treason.

Eight partisan congressional investigations, which found bupkis.

Dunno about noncongressional investigations, if any.

8 investigations and 10 committees involved in the investigations to be precise.

At this point I could make a book solely on Benghazi, a single day/week, with everything the committees have found out.

[The Mountain Goats]

Fun fact from a friend who does sound control:

If you are in a room where the sound is not looped back towards the speaker, the mic is supposed to be 6-12 inches away from the mouth. In a room with a sound loop back (speaker among the audience), it's 6-9 inches. Moving it in a little closer in the latter case cuts down on feedback.

For the love of god, all I want him to do in the third debate is not hold the damn thing under his nose like he's powdered it with coke.

Keep the mic under your chin, Donald; stop breathing on it like you want to take it furniture shopping later.

Yet he never makes those sounds on the microphones at his rallies.

[Ashmoria]

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

oh I see, bad wording

Clinton's emails killed no one. that's a good thing. but of course ANY use of email on ANY server can lead to a hack that can cost lives. that's why the state department uses an entirely different secure system to do classified communication.

Clinton didn't start the Libyan revolution.

[Valaran]

someone died due to a Clinton gaffe??

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

This appears to be a rather poor parameter of performance. For starters, Johnson hasn't been Secretary of State, and thus hasn't held the reins of US foreign policy, which, given the unstable nature of the globe and several current conflicts, is likely to lead to deaths of non-Americans and Americans alike. One could only serious compare the relative death toll of either candidate if Johnson had also been secretary of state through similar circumstances, or if Hillary had been governor.

Secondly, 'death-toll' or lack thereof is not a precise proxy for competence. I never really cared much for the Aleppo Gaffe, but Johnson has rather consistently demonstrated he knows rather little about foreign affairs. Even if one is to be ardently non-interventionist, this is not an excuse for simple ignorance; one can hardly work out where to be noninterventionist (for instance), if one has little idea of the series of foreign issues facing the US. Blanket withdrawal is not advisable, and is about one step above Trump. Moreover, although it often is true that the POTUS will have advice to help them guide through such matters and should not be expected to know minutiae of foreign policy, it is worth noting that the foreign policy framework of the US will be interventionist (such as their 'playbook' Obama avowedly rejected over Syria). A putative President Johnson will either have to keep ahead of such a framework (ie be on top of the issues) or will simply be guided by them/castigated by them. One is not exactly hopeful that he can do that, even assuming non-interventionism is on principle the best policy narrative to follow.

On the contrary, Hillary has been consistently noted as exemplary in her general handling and awareness of US foreign policy, and global issues, though with some rather interesting mistakes. While death toll is important, these other considerations would strike me as a better point of comparison, albeit not always such clearly defined ones. Well all know Johnson would probably have fewer US deaths on his hands due to his non-interventionism, but this isn't the be all and end all of success of a US presidency. In fact, far from it, and espcially so on foreign policy, in which death toll is often out of the president's hands. But what is in their hands is direction, strategy and leadership. Perhaps a comparison of those might be of more use.

[The Holy Empire of the Spaghetti Monster]

I mean, Johnson's actions have killed no one. Unless you can find me a list of "deaths caused by Gary Johnson during his governorship."

Although unlike Johnson's gaff, Clinton's emails could of potentially killed people. Lots of people. Not knowing what is classified - can kill people. Not knowing where Aleppo is...not that problematic for an administration that is non-interventionist in the first place. We shouldn't be there. Or add to the fire.

And of course, Clinton has already lead to who knows how many deaths in Libya. At least we can count 4 Americans, offhandedly. But many more non-Americans.

Oh, not this Benghazi bullshit again.

Clinton has been clear by, what, close to a dozen investigations on it? Including partisan Republican investigation?

Let's call this what it is- a pathetic attempt by the far Right to manufacture a pretext to accuse their political opponents of treason.

I'm fairly sure the same thing applies to the emails, too.