4th Grade Nation State

[Xerographica]

I don't think you understand how copyright law works.

He's the creator of the experiment, therefore he's the rightful owner of the experiment. The University is the rightful owner of the results as the facilitator of the means of the experiment, and the psychology professor conducting it has, by their role as a professor and a researcher, all the rights of the university to use it within the context of university publications (articles, journals, books, etc.).

In all of this, you're not the copyright owner. Therefore, your attempts to integrate his research into your posts are, at best, an unauthorized use for his research.

IP is not whatever he is the owner to, it is whatever he comes up with as an idea. The experiment setup and any results the university cares to share with him, therefore, is his copyright.

Besides that, even if it was, I had permission, nay, direction:

Really it boils down to fundamentally basic questions...

1. What happens when kids are taxed?
2. What happens when kids can choose where their taxes go?
3. What happens when voting is replaced with spending?
4. What happens when quotes are auctioned?

Most of the members of this forum oppose coasianism and pragmatarianism. So they should suspect that bad things will happen when kids can choose where their taxes go and voting is replaced with spending. Or, they should suspect that better things will happen when kids can't choose where their taxes go and voting is not replaced with spending.

Personally, and obviously, I think the questions that I'm asking are very interesting. And it's fine if you don't think that they are interesting. Can you think of more interesting questions?

YES?

Then ask them and find a classroom to help you answer them

NO?

Then you and/or your parents should try and get a refund on your education

Emphasis mine.

An imperative statement, even.

It's not unreasonable to argue that I gave you permission to test my idea. But it's still my idea... not yours. Your spreadsheet is your idea that's based on my idea...

What decision would the class make? Here in California it's pretty much the perfect time of year to have class outside. In any given class there are going to be at least some students who would love to have class outside. And there are also going to be some students who would hate to have class outside (too many distractions). So the class could use coasianism to decide whether to be inside or outside.

Your intellectual property is largely based on my intellectual property. So it's all kinds of super ridiculous for you to then argue that I can't use your IP.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Your intellectual property is largely based on my intellectual property. So it's all kinds of super ridiculous for you to then argue that I can't use your IP.

See, the problem here is, based on copyright law, it's not ridiculous for him to say that.

As an example: I am studying cisco networking. Sure, they own networking equipment and the books I study, but what I do with those ideas, and how I apply them on my research as a network security expert, is my copyright, not cisco's. If I publish a book on security, I don't owe cisco any copyright, and their copyright allows attribution on research work, so I can use their concepts as long as I attribute they are the ones who came up with the idea and the relevant document in which you can find reading of it.

I cannot publish a book on the system you designed, coasianism, as an instructional material because that is your copyright. I can, however, make a critique of your system and it still falls on the legal side of copyright law because I am applying your idea in a different way than you have as long as I do not source any of your work and I talk about coasianism in general as a critique. As such it is a derivative work with enough derivation that I can publish books criticizing your system.

Your argument is merely grasping at straws here.

[Galloism]

Besides that, even if it was, I had permission, nay, direction:



Emphasis mine.

An imperative statement, even.

It's not unreasonable to argue that I gave you permission to test my idea. But it's still my idea... not yours. Your spreadsheet is your idea that's based on my idea...

What decision would the class make? Here in California it's pretty much the perfect time of year to have class outside. In any given class there are going to be at least some students who would love to have class outside. And there are also going to be some students who would hate to have class outside (too many distractions). So the class could use coasianism to decide whether to be inside or outside.

Your intellectual property is largely based on my intellectual property. So it's all kinds of super ridiculous for you to then argue that I can't use your IP.

I suggest you read up on the transformative factor and its impact on use.

[Salandriagado]

Besides that, even if it was, I had permission, nay, direction:



Emphasis mine.

An imperative statement, even.

It's not unreasonable to argue that I gave you permission to test my idea. But it's still my idea... not yours. Your spreadsheet is your idea that's based on my idea...

What decision would the class make? Here in California it's pretty much the perfect time of year to have class outside. In any given class there are going to be at least some students who would love to have class outside. And there are also going to be some students who would hate to have class outside (too many distractions). So the class could use coasianism to decide whether to be inside or outside.

Your intellectual property is largely based on my intellectual property. So it's all kinds of super ridiculous for you to then argue that I can't use your IP.

This is bollocks. As an example of why: A good chunk of my current academic work is heavily based on the work of Rotman. That does not mean that Rotman has any claim to my work, at all. Nor do I have any claim over the work of anyone who later does work based on mine.

[Xerographica]

It's not unreasonable to argue that I gave you permission to test my idea. But it's still my idea... not yours. Your spreadsheet is your idea that's based on my idea...


Your intellectual property is largely based on my intellectual property. So it's all kinds of super ridiculous for you to then argue that I can't use your IP.

I suggest you read up on the transformative factor and its impact on use.

You reasonably argued that I gave you permission to use my IP. How would you respond if I withdrew my permission for you to use my IP?

[Lost heros]

What, what has happened.

[The Two Jerseys]

It's not unreasonable to argue that I gave you permission to test my idea. But it's still my idea... not yours. Your spreadsheet is your idea that's based on my idea...


Your intellectual property is largely based on my intellectual property. So it's all kinds of super ridiculous for you to then argue that I can't use your IP.

I suggest you read up on the transformative factor and its impact on use.

Might be worth reading up on the idea-expression divide as well.

[Galloism]

I suggest you read up on the transformative factor and its impact on use.

You reasonably argued that I gave you permission to use my IP. How would you respond if I withdrew my permission for you to use my IP?

It wouldn't matter overmuch. My work is sufficiently transformative in nature to be distinguished from the original idea, besides which being in a specific educational setting for the purposes of research.

I'm merely pointing out that your claim "HE STOLE MINE FIRST" fails the first hurdle of the test: namely, that which is taken with permission is not stolen.

[Salandriagado]

I suggest you read up on the transformative factor and its impact on use.

You reasonably argued that I gave you permission to use my IP. How would you respond if I withdrew my permission for you to use my IP?

You're too late. The work has already been made. Not that it matters, because his work - being actual research - actually is covered under fair use.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I suggest you read up on the transformative factor and its impact on use.

Might be worth reading up on the idea-expression divide as well.

I guess I can compress it into as little as possible for readers who might be reading this thread right now:

The idea-expression divide means that just because you have an idea of a carbonated drink doesn't mean you can make a copyright on the idea of carbonated drinks.

You can make a specific copyright on whatever documents you publish about the science behind your carbonated drink and you can make a patent based on the specific way you are making carbonated drinks if it is different and unique enough from other copyrights (say Coca-Cola's patents), and you can make a trademark for your specific carbonated drink, but you cannot claim a copyright on the idea of carbonated drinks themselves, only on the ways you intend to bring about your idea of a carbonated drink.

In the case of your ideas, Xero, we cannot distribute the specific text of your ideas printed in the forums and your blog without attribution or without your permission. We can, however, make derivative works from your ideas without having to quote the specific text (which is harder than it sounds when you are critiquing an idea, but it is legal).

What you are thinking of are copyrights where the owner of the copyright gives unlimited distribution permission. Which is something common for universities, and for many copyleft protections like GPL and CC-based copyleft protection. Gallo is not a university though, he is an individual, as such, he retains full control of his publication.

[Xerographica]

You reasonably argued that I gave you permission to use my IP. How would you respond if I withdrew my permission for you to use my IP?

It wouldn't matter overmuch. My work is sufficiently transformative in nature to be distinguished from the original idea, besides which being in a specific educational setting for the purposes of research.

I'm merely pointing out that your claim "HE STOLE MINE FIRST" fails the first hurdle of the test: namely, that which is taken with permission is not stolen.

Your work is transformative? To be fair, your spreadsheet layout isn't too shabby. How about this, telegram me the professor's e-mail address and I'll ask him to send me the spreadsheets. Then I'll transfer the data into a different spreadsheet layout... which I'll post to my blog.

[The Two Jerseys]

It wouldn't matter overmuch. My work is sufficiently transformative in nature to be distinguished from the original idea, besides which being in a specific educational setting for the purposes of research.

I'm merely pointing out that your claim "HE STOLE MINE FIRST" fails the first hurdle of the test: namely, that which is taken with permission is not stolen.

Your work is transformative? To be fair, your spreadsheet layout isn't too shabby. How about this, telegram me the professor's e-mail address and I'll ask him to send me the spreadsheets. Then I'll transfer the data into a different spreadsheet layout... which I'll post to my blog.

That's still plagiarism.

[Galloism]

It wouldn't matter overmuch. My work is sufficiently transformative in nature to be distinguished from the original idea, besides which being in a specific educational setting for the purposes of research.

I'm merely pointing out that your claim "HE STOLE MINE FIRST" fails the first hurdle of the test: namely, that which is taken with permission is not stolen.

Your work is transformative? To be fair, your spreadsheet layout isn't too shabby. How about this, telegram me the professor's e-mail address and I'll ask him to send me the spreadsheets. Then I'll transfer the data into a different spreadsheet layout... which I'll post to my blog.

Given you have told us you randomly email economists about random annoying bullshit, I don't think he'd appreciate the spam.

[Xerographica]

Your work is transformative? To be fair, your spreadsheet layout isn't too shabby. How about this, telegram me the professor's e-mail address and I'll ask him to send me the spreadsheets. Then I'll transfer the data into a different spreadsheet layout... which I'll post to my blog.

Given you have told us you randomly email economists about random annoying bullshit, I don't think he'd appreciate the spam.

He's welcome to just say no. Why not let him decide for himself whether he's interested in sharing the data with the person who is entirely responsible for creating the concept of coasianism?

[Ebliania]

Wow Xero thinks he can outsmart copyright as well.

I won't be surprised if he's notedscholar.

[Salandriagado]

Given you have told us you randomly email economists about random annoying bullshit, I don't think he'd appreciate the spam.

He's welcome to just say no. Why not let him decide for himself whether he's interested in sharing the data with the person who is entirely responsible for creating the concept of coasianism?

He has shared the data with you. He just hasn't given you permission to run off and steal said data.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

The most important question hasn't been answered here though:

But do you guys think we should use coasianism to see how much Xero is willing to pay for Gallo's research?

[The Two Jerseys]

The most important question hasn't been answered here though:

But do you guys think we should use coasianism to see how much Xero is willing to pay for Gallo's research?

Or would it be pragmatarianism? I can't keep their uses straight...

[Galloism]

The most important question hasn't been answered here though:

But do you guys think we should use coasianism to see how much Xero is willing to pay for Gallo's research?

Sure, why not?

My wife can handle all the numbers. On that condition, I would put my research in it.

[Lost heros]

The most important question hasn't been answered here though:

But do you guys think we should use coasianism to see how much Xero is willing to pay for Gallo's research?

I think we should use pragmatarianism to determine this. I'll be the polling party, anyone else can either bid towards letting Xero use the spreadsheet or not. *nods*

[The Two Jerseys]

The most important question hasn't been answered here though:

But do you guys think we should use coasianism to see how much Xero is willing to pay for Gallo's research?

I think we should use pragmatarianism to determine this. I'll be the polling party, anyone else can either bid towards letting Xero use the spreadsheet or not. *nods*

But we get to allocate where you can spend the money, right?

[Lost heros]

I think we should use pragmatarianism to determine this. I'll be the polling party, anyone else can either bid towards letting Xero use the spreadsheet or not. *nods*

But we get to allocate where you can spend the money, right?

You get to allocate your money towards anywhere in the polling party. Which are my savings account or my checking account.

[Aksun]

Can I ask what happened here? A fourth grade teacher went from discussing how NS may be used in a classroom to plagiarism about a spreadsheet? I'm lost.

[Galloism]

Can I ask what happened here? A fourth grade teacher went from discussing how NS may be used in a classroom to plagiarism about a spreadsheet? I'm lost.

Someone's taking my original work for their blog without permission. I didn't appreciate it.

[South East Europe]

Your friend should be fired.

Agreed. Also, I feel this is a ridiculous argument. No form of government can work in any classroom. You can't implement things such as healthcare, employment, agriculture, environment in an educational setting. I feel you don't understand the premise of NationStates by this argument. Further, promoting any form of government or political system over the others in an educational setting is tantamount to abuse of power.