Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

[Thyerata]

First, I'm an "inquisitive atheist" (so while I don't think god exists, I'm willing to learn about Christianity and maybe change my mind)

Questions for the orthodox members:

1. I've heard a chant or a hymn that begins "the stone that is sealed before your tomb by the judeans". What is it, and when is it chanted/sung during the Divine Liturgy?
2. What's the difference between a Hierarchical Divine Liturgy and an ordinary Liturgy?
3. There are 12 Great Feasts (thanks Constantinopolous for your posts). Does orthodox celebrate the day before Pascha (the Saturday before Easter Sunday) as "Lazarus Saturday"?

[Venerable Bede]

First, I'm an "inquisitive atheist" (so while I don't think god exists, I'm willing to learn about Christianity and maybe change my mind)

Questions for the orthodox members:

1. I've heard a chant or a hymn that begins "the stone that is sealed before your tomb by the judeans". What is it, and when is it chanted/sung during the Divine Liturgy?
2. What's the difference between a Hierarchical Divine Liturgy and an ordinary Liturgy?
3. There are 12 Great Feasts (thanks Constantinopolous for your posts). Does orthodox celebrate the day before Pascha (the Saturday before Easter Sunday) as "Lazarus Saturday"?

1. It's a Sunday Resurrection hymn. On days it is sung, it's sung with other hymns right before the Trisagion which is right before the epistle and Gospel readings

2. The former has the bishop, and is longer and more elaborate.
3. No, Lazarus Saturday is the day before Palm Sunday. The day before Pascha is Holy Saturday, and the focus is on Christ's rest in the Tomb (which is what we believe the Sabbath was about reverencing).

[The Archregimancy]

This new documentary about Mount Athos may be of interest to thread participants:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPjSuecz7Gg

Don't worry if you don't speak Greek (or another language of a traditionally Orthodox culture); it's subtitled in English.

[Luminesa]

I will pray for your recovery and for your health, bruh. And Mamma Mary is good. She takes good care of her babies.

I also pray your Confirmation will go well as well! Excitement! ^w^

I will pray for both of you. May you prosper under God and Jesus.

Thank you.

[Lady Scylla]

I doubt that's going to happen without bloodshed. This might as well be the Catholic/Orthodox thread. Provided they make a valid case for it, they can probably get a Protestant thread.

It can be done without flaming, but that's exactly the point. The CDT is not a safe space. Every summer we get fresh new atheists on the site who want to test their online mettle and stick it to the Christians. We've had, buddhists, muslims, satanists, hell even gnostic nazis come into this place and challenge the beliefs of everybody here. And yet, we remain because we keep scrapping and debating.

For all intents and purposes, this is Thunderdome.

Hrm. More than likely you lot maintain you're right just the same as they do. So no-one's changed their minds, in fact, it's more likely you've just reaffirmed each-other's beliefs. So I'd avoid giving that pat on your back.

[The Blaatschapen]

Given the Mods closed down a "Catholic Thread" they'd never allow. There's no safe spaces on the NS Forums, if the Protestants Want to be part of this thread they need to carve out their space

I doubt that's going to happen without bloodshed. This might as well be the Catholic/Orthodox thread. Provided they make a valid case for it, they can probably get a Protestant thread.

Which one?
Presbyterian? Lutheran? Dutch Reformed? Puritanism?

It will be hard to make a case, that does not mean further Balkanization/Brexitation of the thread.

[Jumalariik]

I went to RCIA class this morning, as usual and went to Mass after. When I came home my parents and the rest of my family were at their church, as usual. My parents essentially told me they don't want me to go to my church and that we should go to church as a family, and that there's "nothing wrong" with Catholicism per se, but I took it as going to church as a family trumps what I believe. (Keep in mind I normally go to the 7:30 Mass, RCIA classes from 9-10:30, and then drive over to my parents' Evangelical church halfway through the service)

I don't really remember the exact details of what was said, but I don't think I've ever cried so hard or so long for anything else in my life (after I went to my room, of course. I wasn't about to bawl in front of everbody). My brother must have told my mom I was crying, though it probably was evident anyways because my face and eyes were all red. She was saying that we could go to Mass in the afternoon or something like that. I don't know.

I talked with my mom for about an hour in the living room. I talked about the Eucharist, how the Mass is connected to the one Sacrifice of Christ, transubstantiation, the sacraments, the Didache, a couple quotes of the Church Fathers, etc.

EDIT: Oh, and they also were asking why can't I wait until I'm an adult before I join; I'm just a kid or whatever.

Well it seems pretty unreasonable to not want you to go to Mass, though if there is one in the afternoon that might be the simpler and more prudent thing.

[Nordengrund]

I feel like I've formed a family with the people here. We may bicker a lot over what is true and what is heretical, but real life families fight and disagree a lot, too.

I honestly don't know why we have a sore lack of Protestants here. I think it is true that there was some serious anti-Protestantism going on in this thread, but I think it's gotten a lot better. I guess Protestants like to keep to themselves, more, idk.

[Lady Scylla]

I doubt that's going to happen without bloodshed. This might as well be the Catholic/Orthodox thread. Provided they make a valid case for it, they can probably get a Protestant thread.

Which one?
Presbyterian? Lutheran? Dutch Reformed? Puritanism?

It will be hard to make a case, that does not mean further Balkanization/Brexitation of the thread.

Well, the Dutch were never reformed. Let's be honest.

[The Blaatschapen]

Which one?
Presbyterian? Lutheran? Dutch Reformed? Puritanism?

It will be hard to make a case, that does not mean further Balkanization/Brexitation of the thread.

Well, the Dutch were never reformed. Let's be honest.

No idea, my roots are catholic

[Pope Joan]

Which one?
Presbyterian? Lutheran? Dutch Reformed? Puritanism?

It will be hard to make a case, that does not mean further Balkanization/Brexitation of the thread.

Well, the Dutch were never reformed. Let's be honest.

It is difficult to find a stricter Calvinist than the Dutch Reformed variety. Their Synod of Dort declared that God predestined some people to eternal damnation. That is right, they were created simply to be destroyed. Ugh!

[Maineiacs]

Well, the Dutch were never reformed. Let's be honest.

It is difficult to find a stricter Calvinist than the Dutch Reformed variety. Their Synod of Dort declared that God predestined some people to eternal damnation. That is right, they were created simply to be destroyed. Ugh!

How do they justify a belief like that?

[Salus Maior]

Well, the Dutch were never reformed. Let's be honest.

It is difficult to find a stricter Calvinist than the Dutch Reformed variety. Their Synod of Dort declared that God predestined some people to eternal damnation. That is right, they were created simply to be destroyed. Ugh!

Is that a belief they still hold?

Cause I'd find that rather funny considering how liberal the Netherlands are.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

It can be done without flaming, but that's exactly the point. The CDT is not a safe space. Every summer we get fresh new atheists on the site who want to test their online mettle and stick it to the Christians. We've had, buddhists, muslims, satanists, hell even gnostic nazis come into this place and challenge the beliefs of everybody here. And yet, we remain because we keep scrapping and debating.

For all intents and purposes, this is Thunderdome.

Hrm. More than likely you lot maintain you're right just the same as they do. So no-one's changed their minds, in fact, it's more likely you've just reaffirmed each-other's beliefs. So I'd avoid giving that pat on your back.

Point is, you can't expect space to be given to you. You gotta carve out your own.

[The Blaatschapen]

It is difficult to find a stricter Calvinist than the Dutch Reformed variety. Their Synod of Dort declared that God predestined some people to eternal damnation. That is right, they were created simply to be destroyed. Ugh!

Is that a belief they still hold?

Cause I'd find that rather funny considering how liberal the Netherlands are.

Some just might. The general PKN (Protestant Churh Netherlands) maybe not. But the orthodox ones of the "bevindelijk gereformeerden" (https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bevindeli ... formeerden Dutch) just might.

My main point here is that the liberalness of the various protestants might differ. The "vrijzinnig gereformeerden" are for example, extremely liberal ( https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vrijzinnig_protestantisme also Dutch)

[Pasong Tirad]

So, today is a big day for me. today I have completed my consecration to Blessed Virgin, and have joined the Militia of the Immaculata and the Knights at the Foot of the Cross. A year ago, this hadn't even occurred to me; I had not yet made my return to the Church. I didn't even know there was a way the laity could formally dedicate themselves to Our Lady, but when I heard about Marian consecration, somehow I knew this is what I was supposed to do. I don't know what the Lord has planned for me going forward, but I know he has something planned. Actually looking forward to... well, anything really... is kind of a new experience for me. I just pray that I keep growing in this new relationship with Christ and his Blessed Mother.

Holy Mother Mary, Batman! Welcome!

[Gim]

I feel like I've formed a family with the people here. We may bicker a lot over what is true and what is heretical, but real life families fight and disagree a lot, too.

I honestly don't know why we have a sore lack of Protestants here. I think it is true that there was some serious anti-Protestantism going on in this thread, but I think it's gotten a lot better. I guess Protestants like to keep to themselves, more, idk.

Yeah, my aunt is Catholic, whereas, my family is Protestant. We still get along. We're very tight.

[Coulee Croche]

It can be done without flaming, but that's exactly the point. The CDT is not a safe space. Every summer we get fresh new atheists on the site who want to test their online mettle and stick it to the Christians. We've had, buddhists, muslims, satanists, hell even gnostic nazis come into this place and challenge the beliefs of everybody here. And yet, we remain because we keep scrapping and debating.

For all intents and purposes, this is Thunderdome.

Hrm. More than likely you lot maintain you're right just the same as they do. So no-one's changed their minds, in fact, it's more likely you've just reaffirmed each-other's beliefs. So I'd avoid giving that pat on your back.

Oh sweet irony.

[The Archregimancy]

It can be done without flaming, but that's exactly the point. The CDT is not a safe space. Every summer we get fresh new atheists on the site who want to test their online mettle and stick it to the Christians. We've had, buddhists, muslims, satanists, hell even gnostic nazis come into this place and challenge the beliefs of everybody here. And yet, we remain because we keep scrapping and debating.

For all intents and purposes, this is Thunderdome.

Hrm. More than likely you lot maintain you're right just the same as they do. So no-one's changed their minds, in fact, it's more likely you've just reaffirmed each-other's beliefs.

A pithy enough summary of NSG generally, no?

[Lady Scylla]

Hrm. More than likely you lot maintain you're right just the same as they do. So no-one's changed their minds, in fact, it's more likely you've just reaffirmed each-other's beliefs.

A pithy enough summary of NSG generally, no?

Pretty much. If anyone's mind is changed, that is a miracle.

[Pasong Tirad]

A pithy enough summary of NSG generally, no?

Pretty much. If anyone's mind is changed, that is a miracle.

I'll be ready to put St. Peter's on speed dial. Anyone know if the Pope's area code is Argentina or the Vatican?

[The Norgan Alliance]

Well, the Dutch were never reformed. Let's be honest.

No idea, my roots are catholic

That just means you're a crypto-Blegian

[Gim]

Pretty much. If anyone's mind is changed, that is a miracle.

I'll be ready to put St. Peter's on speed dial. Anyone know if the Pope's area code is Argentina or the Vatican?

The Vatican, I believe.

[The Sauganash Union]

Well it's not just that, I think - but I'll wait until I hear from a Protestant how they feel about their in/ability to jump into conversations here.

Protestant here. I think this issue is that a lot of Protestants, especially those of an evangelical or low-church persuasion, don't feel welcome here, so it seems pointless to them to present their views when it is just going to be dismissed as heretical, and that doesn't really encourage discussion.

If you say you're a Protestant (and Calvinist in particular), you'll get swarmed by a bunch of "TRAD-CATHOLIC LATIN RITE" and "ULTRA-TRADITIONAL ORTHOBROS" up your ass calling you a "liberal, masonic Anglo-American heretic" in certain parts of the internet.

[The Sauganash Union]

I guess Protestants like to keep to themselves, more, idk.

Public, open professions of faith are not in our bones.