NationStates

Grave_n_idle wrote:Besides - the Book of Mormon may have been translated in 1830, but the text was written between 2200BC and AD421.

By a civilization that didn't exist.

Salus Maior wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:Besides - the Book of Mormon may have been translated in 1830, but the text was written between 2200BC and AD421.

By a civilization that didn't exist.

allegedly, didn't exist

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
By a civilization that didn't exist.

allegedly, didn't exist

I love the musical!

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Why?

Surely they wouldn't write it if it wasn't true?

Mormons have died for their faith. If it wasn't true - they'd just recant. Surely.

By that logic, every religion out there is true. People have died for their faith in nearly every religion.

Grave_n_idle wrote:

Thunder Place wrote:Mormons think that, and it follows logically from their premise that it's, and I quote, "another testament of Jesus Christ." Its that premise I disagree with.

Why?

Surely they wouldn't write it if it wasn't true?

Mormons have died for their faith. If it wasn't true - they'd just recant. Surely.

By that logic leap over the Grand Canyon, you could justify Wahhabism. Dying for a Faith is not what makes a faith true.

Luminesa wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Why?

Surely they wouldn't write it if it wasn't true?

Mormons have died for their faith. If it wasn't true - they'd just recant. Surely.

By that logic leap over the Grand Canyon, you could justify Wahhabism. Dying for a Faith is not what makes a faith true.

You guys realize he's parroting typical Christian Justifications of the NT,...right?

Grave_n_idle wrote:

Thunder Place wrote:Mormons think that, and it follows logically from their premise that it's, and I quote, "another testament of Jesus Christ." Its that premise I disagree with.

Why?

Surely they wouldn't write it if it wasn't true?

Mormons have died for their faith. If it wasn't true - they'd just recant. Surely.

Belief in a thing is a beautiful and terrible motivation. People die for every kind of belief - belief in faith, lack of faith (I think?), nations, races, what have you.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Luminesa wrote:By that logic leap over the Grand Canyon, you could justify Wahhabism. Dying for a Faith is not what makes a faith true.

You guys realize he's parroting typical Christian Justifications of the NT,...right?

He's not even doing it right, though.

Jamzmania wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

You guys realize he's parroting typical Christian Justifications of the NT,...right?

He's not even doing it right, though.

That's because he's mocking them.

Salus Maior wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Why?

Surely they wouldn't write it if it wasn't true?

Mormons have died for their faith. If it wasn't true - they'd just recant. Surely.

By that logic, every religion out there is true. People have died for their faith in nearly every religion.

Well. I mean. For all we know, you lot have got it wrong. Obviously, many Christians feel their religion to be the 'right' path -- but this really cannot be proven true, at least, not until death. Christians, along with every other religious group, feels their beliefs are likely true and the 'right' path. None can verify such claims.

Pasong Tirad wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Why?

Surely they wouldn't write it if it wasn't true?

Mormons have died for their faith. If it wasn't true - they'd just recant. Surely.

Belief in a thing is a beautiful and terrible motivation. People die for every kind of belief - belief in faith, lack of faith (I think?), nations, races, what have you.

I don't see how that's possible.

Lady Scylla wrote:

Pasong Tirad wrote:Belief in a thing is a beautiful and terrible motivation. People die for every kind of belief - belief in faith, lack of faith (I think?), nations, races, what have you.

I don't see how that's possible.

I'm sure there have been Atheist "Martyrs"

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Lady Scylla wrote:
I don't see how that's possible.

I'm sure there have been Atheist "Martyrs"

Bit of an odd thing if there have. Antitheists ones, perhaps. But I never like including them into general Atheism. I just have a lack of faith, I feel it's a bad thing to have if led by blindly. I can't foresee myself sacrificing my life because I don't have faith. Just seems paradoxical.

Pasong Tirad wrote:

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Why?

Surely they wouldn't write it if it wasn't true?

Mormons have died for their faith. If it wasn't true - they'd just recant. Surely.

Belief in a thing is a beautiful and terrible motivation. People die for every kind of belief - belief in faith, lack of faith (I think?), nations, races, what have you.

It's a good thing to die for faith. It shows that oppressors cannot always bend the will of people.

See the Shia militias in Syria/Iraq for example.

Not Christian, but here is a video how martyrdom can inspire people

Lady Scylla wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
I'm sure there have been Atheist "Martyrs"

Bit of an odd thing if there have. Antitheists ones, perhaps. But I never like including them into general Atheism. I just have a lack of faith, I feel it's a bad thing to have if led by blindly. I can't foresee myself sacrificing my life because I don't have faith. Just seems paradoxical.

I can see that reasoning. What harm is it to say you believe in X deity, if you don't think any deity exists, especially under the threat of death.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

You guys realize he's parroting typical Christian Justifications of the NT,...right?

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
That's because he's mocking them.

I realize.

Lady Scylla wrote:Bit of an odd thing if there have. Antitheists ones, perhaps. But I never like including them into general Atheism. I just have a lack of faith, I feel it's a bad thing to have if led by blindly. I can't foresee myself sacrificing my life because I don't have faith. Just seems paradoxical.

I imagine some atheists would die for their lack of belief out of some sort of principle. Not bowing down to religion or some such.

Gondolaulus wrote:

Pasong Tirad wrote:Belief in a thing is a beautiful and terrible motivation. People die for every kind of belief - belief in faith, lack of faith (I think?), nations, races, what have you.

It's a good thing to die for faith. It shows that oppressors cannot always bend the will of people.

See the Shia militias in Syria/Iraq for example.

Not Christian, but here is a video how martyrdom can inspire people

I couldn't resist throwing in some martyrdom-related gospel music
Faith of Our Fathers, Tennessee Ernie Ford: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaPntncSK6s

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Menassa wrote:"Happy is the man who finds Wisdom"

Ecclesiastes begs to differ.

But it was written by the same man.

Menassa wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Ecclesiastes begs to differ.

But it was written by the same man.

People aren't monoliths

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Menassa wrote:But it was written by the same man.

People aren't monoliths

Maybe there's just ups and downs to wisdom

Salus Maior wrote:

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
People aren't monoliths

Maybe there's just ups and downs to wisdom

Well the Wisdom Proverb, is a grand notion: Wisdom is worth more than Gold, it's priceless etc etc. Which when you're known as Solomon the Wise and have God's favor, its a great thing to boast about.

But later in life when even with your Great Wisdom you've screwed up royally (that's a next level pun), it illuminates another perspective and it's understandable to curse everything under the sun as worthless.

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:

Jamzmania wrote:He's not even doing it right, though.

That's because he's mocking them.

There's nothing mocking there. I've done the research.

It's not parroting and it's not mockery. It is examining special exception.

If Jews were wrong about their own religion because post-Jewish religion makes that claim, then Christians must be capable of being wrong about their religion for exactly the same reason.

If they can't be wrong for exactly the same reason, then Jews were right about their own religion.

It's a serious and earnest investigation. It's odd that you think it mocking.

Gondolaulus wrote:It's a good thing to die for faith.

The New Testament says as much.

You know, I don't see any argument for Mormonism that wouldn't work equally well as an argument for Islam. Both religions claim to follow the supposed "original teachings" of Christ (and the other prophets), which are shockingly different from what Christianity has historically believed, and both religions claim to have been started by a new prophet who received a book from an angel that was intended to "correct" the "errors" of a corrupt Christian Church.

Both religions also deny the Holy Trinity and the divinity of Christ, and support these denials with the new books that were supposedly revealed by the respective angels.

As far as I'm concerned, Mormonism is Islam 2.0 - at least with regard to its claims to legitimacy.