Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

[Diopolis]

Amoris Laetitia.

...OH COME ON DIO IT'S NOT BECAUSE OF AN ENCYCLICAL!!! XD

It's not technically an encyclical, but it has set off a firestorm of controversy about what it actually means to the point of cardinals in open conflict with each other.

[Pasong Tirad]

Y'all do realize that the Catholic Church hasn't approved of this "miracle" but at the same time doesn't allow independent investigations into the "miracle". Besides in 1631 after the "miracle" had taken place Mt. Vesuvius erupted and killed 18,000.

So there is nothing to fear, once again the old Jewish saying on miracles is right again

Correct me if I'm wrong (because my only knowledge on this are Google searches and Wikipedia pages), but I think they're not allowing independent investigations because it might require opening the vial of blood, thus possibly opening it to contamination. Since the relic is old as balls, I understand this line of reasoning.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Aren't you Catholic?

Yeah, but the miracles that bend natural law don't really sit well with me.

You subscribe to a religion in which a Virgin Human woman gave birth to a Male Deity....

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Y'all do realize that the Catholic Church hasn't approved of this "miracle" but at the same time doesn't allow independent investigations into the "miracle". Besides in 1631 after the "miracle" had taken place Mt. Vesuvius erupted and killed 18,000.

So there is nothing to fear, once again the old Jewish saying on miracles is right again

On the contrary, Liquified blood doesn't mean everything is hunky dory, just the few times it has not, has correlated to some tragedy. Tragedy occurring even when it liquified is not the lynchpin you think it is. So I cannot deduce that whatever saying you're referring to, is correct.

[The Archregimancy]

Aren't you Catholic?

Yeah, but the miracles that bend natural law don't really sit well with me.

Tarsonis has made the point as well, but would you care to clarify for us which miracles recognised by the Catholic Church don't 'bend' 'natural law'.

Quite apart from the virgin birth, one might have thought that the Resurrection might have presented minor problems on that front.

[Drown]

Saint Januarius's blood didn't liquefy.

This is bad.

Real bad.

Or nothing is happening. A Hasidic saying has it that a Hasid who believes that all the miracles said to have been performed by the Hasidic masters actually happened is a fool, but anyone who believes that they could not have happened is an unbeliever.

WWII happened when a saint's blood didn't liquefy in 1939. Forgot their name though.

[Thermodolia]

Or nothing is happening. A Hasidic saying has it that a Hasid who believes that all the miracles said to have been performed by the Hasidic masters actually happened is a fool, but anyone who believes that they could not have happened is an unbeliever.

WWII happened when a saint's blood didn't liquefy in 1939. Forgot their name though.

Ya I'm not buying that, just like I'm not buying this "miracle". In other words I'm not buying what the RCC is selling, even though this hasn't been approved by the RCC

[Thermodolia]

Y'all do realize that the Catholic Church hasn't approved of this "miracle" but at the same time doesn't allow independent investigations into the "miracle". Besides in 1631 after the "miracle" had taken place Mt. Vesuvius erupted and killed 18,000.

So there is nothing to fear, once again the old Jewish saying on miracles is right again

Except it happens almost every year anyway?

Que?

[Hashemite Arabiyah]

WWII happened when a saint's blood didn't liquefy in 1939. Forgot their name though.

Ya I'm not buying that, just like I'm not buying this "miracle". In other words I'm not buying what the RCC is selling, even though this hasn't been approved by the RCC

Good thing that nobody asked you to, isn't it then?

[Tarsonis Survivors]

WWII happened when a saint's blood didn't liquefy in 1939. Forgot their name though.

Ya I'm not buying that, just like I'm not buying this "miracle". In other words I'm not buying what the RCC is selling, even though this hasn't been approved by the RCC

I'd imagine your inherent biases would preclude you from believing anything the Church is "selling"

[Thermodolia]

Ya I'm not buying that, just like I'm not buying this "miracle". In other words I'm not buying what the RCC is selling, even though this hasn't been approved by the RCC

I'd imagine your inherent biases would preclude you from believing anything the Church is "selling"

True. But the RCC hasn't officially declared that this is in fact a miracle.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

I'd imagine your inherent biases would preclude you from believing anything the Church is "selling"

True. But the RCC hasn't officially declared that this is in fact a miracle.

I'd imagine it has to do with the fact that in order to do so a potential Miracle must first be fully investigated via scientific method, or any other natural explanation. Given the nature of the materials present in the potential miracle, testing it would destroy said miracle, so they're perfectly content to let it go on as a popular piety thing, rather than an official miracle.

[Luminesa]

Yeah, but the miracles that bend natural law don't really sit well with me.

Tarsonis has made the point as well, but would you care to clarify for us which miracles recognised by the Catholic Church don't 'bend' 'natural law'.

Quite apart from the virgin birth, one might have thought that the Resurrection might have presented minor problems on that front.

Jesus pops up from somewhere like, "I meeeeean..."

[Novsvacro]

True. But the RCC hasn't officially declared that this is in fact a miracle.

I'd imagine it has to do with the fact that in order to do so a potential Miracle must first be fully investigated via scientific method, or any other natural explanation. Given the nature of the materials present in the potential miracle, testing it would destroy said miracle, so they're perfectly content to let it go on as a popular piety thing, rather than an official miracle.

Any kind of tampering with San Genarro would probably cause a peasant rebellion in Naples

[Nioya]

Someone recently asked me "how is your walk with God?" I didn't know exactly how to respond. Today has been good but I still feel like things aren't quite right. I told them I want to be a saint guy I still don't know how.

How do I know if I am right in my walk with God? How do I know if I am pious? What should be my goal?

[Pasong Tirad]

Tarsonis has made the point as well, but would you care to clarify for us which miracles recognised by the Catholic Church don't 'bend' 'natural law'.

Quite apart from the virgin birth, one might have thought that the Resurrection might have presented minor problems on that front.

Jesus pops up from somewhere like, "I meeeeean..."

Okay yeah I don't understand it either but it is what I believe. A lot of things about what I believe don't make sense and I try my best every day to understand it. No, I don't believe that Moses "parted" the Red Sea, no I don't believe Jesus literally gave sight to the blind or literally multiplied bread and fish to feed five thousand. I try and make sense of it as much as I can and more often than not, I come up short. But I have my God, my Christ and if it doesn't make sense I make peace with it with the idea that maybe I'll figure it out one day - or maybe not and that's okay too.

[Lost Memories]

Someone recently asked me "how is your walk with God?" I didn't know exactly how to respond. Today has been good but I still feel like things aren't quite right. I told them I want to be a saint guy I still don't know how.

How do I know if I am right in my walk with God? How do I know if I am pious? What should be my goal?

Reflect on yourself and be honest with what you see. After that, compare what you saw about yourself with people who are considered examples of being pious.
The study of the Saints can be very enlightening for that purpose. Or you could also try to compare to Jesus, as much as it's almost impossible for everyone to be the same, the comparison is useful since it can highlight some major parts to improve about the self.

"Walking with God" shouldn't mean to improve and live following the example God gave? Or it's more about the feeling of having God close to you? About feeling to be living in a worthy and complete way?

[Jamzmania]

Jesus pops up from somewhere like, "I meeeeean..."

Okay yeah I don't understand it either but it is what I believe. A lot of things about what I believe don't make sense and I try my best every day to understand it. No, I don't believe that Moses "parted" the Red Sea, no I don't believe Jesus literally gave sight to the blind or literally multiplied bread and fish to feed five thousand. I try and make sense of it as much as I can and more often than not, I come up short. But I have my God, my Christ and if it doesn't make sense I make peace with it with the idea that maybe I'll figure it out one day - or maybe not and that's okay too.

Why do you not believe in miracles? They are fundamental to Christianity. Without miracles, how would you know what to believe? How would you know that a man's message is truly from God? Anyone can claim to be God, but only God can confirm the message through miracles.

[Pasong Tirad]

Okay yeah I don't understand it either but it is what I believe. A lot of things about what I believe don't make sense and I try my best every day to understand it. No, I don't believe that Moses "parted" the Red Sea, no I don't believe Jesus literally gave sight to the blind or literally multiplied bread and fish to feed five thousand. I try and make sense of it as much as I can and more often than not, I come up short. But I have my God, my Christ and if it doesn't make sense I make peace with it with the idea that maybe I'll figure it out one day - or maybe not and that's okay too.

Why do you not believe in miracles? They are fundamental to Christianity. Without miracles, how would you know what to believe? How would you know that a man's message is truly from God? Anyone can claim to be God, but only God can confirm the message through miracles.

Okay I think we have a great misunderstanding. I said I don't believe in miracles that bend natural law, like the blind suddenly being able to see, etc. I don't know how to fully explain it, but I do believe in miracles - just not miracles that, as I said, go against the laws of nature.

You know what's fundamental to my Christianity? Belief in God and Christ and in Christ's teachings and the desire to create a Kingdom of Heaven on Earth - not miracles.

[Luminesa]

I'd imagine it has to do with the fact that in order to do so a potential Miracle must first be fully investigated via scientific method, or any other natural explanation. Given the nature of the materials present in the potential miracle, testing it would destroy said miracle, so they're perfectly content to let it go on as a popular piety thing, rather than an official miracle.

Any kind of tampering with San Genarro would probably cause a peasant rebellion in Naples

*Sigh.* And this is why I don't play as the Italian countries in EU. PEASANT REBELLIONS EVERYWHERE.

...Actually, that's more of Germany and Poland...heh...

[Luminesa]

Someone recently asked me "how is your walk with God?" I didn't know exactly how to respond. Today has been good but I still feel like things aren't quite right. I told them I want to be a saint guy I still don't know how.

How do I know if I am right in my walk with God? How do I know if I am pious? What should be my goal?

Pray and reflect. See where you're going and ask yourself, "Am I moving toward who God wants me to be? Am I listening to Him above all things? When people see me, do they see Christ? Am I being a light to others?" Remember that the best indicator of being a follower of Christ is charity. Do you show the Sacred Heart of Jesus to others, when you are with them?

[Diopolis]

Why do you not believe in miracles? They are fundamental to Christianity. Without miracles, how would you know what to believe? How would you know that a man's message is truly from God? Anyone can claim to be God, but only God can confirm the message through miracles.

Okay I think we have a great misunderstanding. I said I don't believe in miracles that bend natural law, like the blind suddenly being able to see, etc. I don't know how to fully explain it, but I do believe in miracles - just not miracles that, as I said, go against the laws of nature.

You know what's fundamental to my Christianity? Belief in God and Christ and in Christ's teachings and the desire to create a Kingdom of Heaven on Earth - not miracles.

So you believe that large parts of the scriptures are fairy tales.

[Luminesa]

Why do you not believe in miracles? They are fundamental to Christianity. Without miracles, how would you know what to believe? How would you know that a man's message is truly from God? Anyone can claim to be God, but only God can confirm the message through miracles.

Okay I think we have a great misunderstanding. I said I don't believe in miracles that bend natural law, like the blind suddenly being able to see, etc. I don't know how to fully explain it, but I do believe in miracles - just not miracles that, as I said, go against the laws of nature.

You know what's fundamental to my Christianity? Belief in God and Christ and in Christ's teachings and the desire to create a Kingdom of Heaven on Earth - not miracles.

But Christ specifically showed His power and divinity through working miracles CONSTANTLY.

[Pasong Tirad]

So you believe that large parts of the scriptures are fairy tales.

I believe there's a rational explanation for all of it. I just don't have all the answers.

But Christ specifically showed His power and divinity through working miracles CONSTANTLY.

Again, as I've said, I don't have all the answers. I believe Christ is both human and divine, so that would be an easy way for me to wrap my head around his miracle-work but I personally don't buy it. The way I see it is that focusing on His miracle-work is distracting us from His message and His teachings.

[Luminesa]

So you believe that large parts of the scriptures are fairy tales.

I believe there's a rational explanation for all of it. I just don't have all the answers.

But Christ specifically showed His power and divinity through working miracles CONSTANTLY.

Again, as I've said, I don't have all the answers. I believe Christ is both human and divine, so that would be an easy way for me to wrap my head around his miracle-work but I personally don't buy it. The way I see it is that focusing on His miracle-work is distracting us from His message and His teachings.

If you don't have all the answers, though, that doesn't necessarily make the miracles invalid. Just pray and ask God to increase your faith in Him. ^^