Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

[Maineiacs]

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/astagnaro/34-common-errors-about-the-spanish-inquisition

Worth a read.

I'm inclined to agree with what several people said in the comments section of that article: it would have been nice if he had provided sources for his claims. What the article said may well be true, but it was written in a style that basically sounds like "NUH-UH! You're a liar!"

[Tarsonis Survivors]

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/astagnaro/34-common-errors-about-the-spanish-inquisition

Worth a read.

I'm inclined to agree with what several people said in the comments section of that article: it would have been nice if he had provided sources for his claims. What the article said may well be true, but it was written in a style that basically sounds like "NUH-UH! You're a liar!"

Well it is a blog, and yes it's very biased. I'm thinking of writing a book a number of l engrained misconceptions, might add this to the list.

[Hakons]

I was thinking more of a class that was about a single religion. It would actually go deep into the history and theology of the religion, so the general populous could actually know what their religion is. What would be difficult would be determining how many of these classes would be offered, considering there are a large number of religions. One solution could be making classes for the top five religions in the local area, or something along those lines.

So a question I want to ask then: Would you have an issue then if the Christian Class had the least amount of attendance?

I wouldn't have an issue with that. I'd love it if classes were just offered. It could also allow people to learn more about religions they are unfamiliar with.

Ignoring what literally everyone in the ancient world thought about the matter is not a protestant attitude.

It's certainly convenient for them though.

Infant baptism for the last two thousand years? What? Noo, that doesn't matter. Adult baptism is the real Christian way.

Christians believing in the Real Presence in the Eucharist for thousands of years? Which is wine and bread? Pffft, nah it's just a symbol! And crackers and grape juice is the right way to do it.

Really, once you start ignoring the history you veer off pretty far from what Christians actually believed.

Come on now, many Protestants still have many Church traditions. Baptism and communion are both sacraments in the Methodist Church. We are baptized as infants and our pastors say "here is Christ's body, broken for you" and "here is Christ's blood, shed for you," at communion. Anglicans and Lutherans have even more traditions.

[Nordengrund]

So a question I want to ask then: Would you have an issue then if the Christian Class had the least amount of attendance?

I wouldn't have an issue with that. I'd love it if classes were just offered. It could also allow people to learn more about religions they are unfamiliar with.

It's certainly convenient for them though.

Infant baptism for the last two thousand years? What? Noo, that doesn't matter. Adult baptism is the real Christian way.

Christians believing in the Real Presence in the Eucharist for thousands of years? Which is wine and bread? Pffft, nah it's just a symbol! And crackers and grape juice is the right way to do it.

Really, once you start ignoring the history you veer off pretty far from what Christians actually believed.

Come on now, many Protestants still have many Church traditions. Baptism and communion are both sacraments in the Methodist Church. We are baptized as infants and our pastors say "here is Christ's body, broken for you" and "here is Christ's blood, shed for you," at communion. Anglicans and Lutherans have even more traditions.

There are high church Baptists, but they are a pretty rare breed.

[Hakons]

I've pretty much left behind the original argument tbh. So I'll concede that to you.

SIDS is also a thing. Cancer is a thing. Freak accidents are a thing. Honestly, it's mind boggling to me that you're so blase about this.

And again, dying young has nothing to do with infant baptism.

Why? Because death is not an issue to me?

Like I said, I'd be more worried if this was 1000 years ago. Not today.

The only practical reason I see behind baptizing a child when they're an infant is to wash away their sins in case they die when they're young they at least die with a clean slate, and even you have implied this in your answer to me. I don't find that answer satisfactory to baptize a child in this day and age.

Tradition? Sure, that is a strong motivator in the church to do a lot of things. However, the reasoning to me seems... off. It's definitely not something I'd see in a child and think "they might die tomorrow and they are born with sin, so might as well wipe the slate clean". I just don't see it as needed because I think children are clean slates prior to the fact, so they are innocent by default, in my opinion, because they simply don't know right from wrong, so they cannot be sinners or judged in the same way as an adult who has cognition and a conscience is.

Baptism is very important and should be done fairly early. It is the entrance into the Church and is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[Luminesa]

I've pretty much left behind the original argument tbh. So I'll concede that to you.

SIDS is also a thing. Cancer is a thing. Freak accidents are a thing. Honestly, it's mind boggling to me that you're so blase about this.

And again, dying young has nothing to do with infant baptism.

Why? Because death is not an issue to me?

Like I said, I'd be more worried if this was 1000 years ago. Not today.

The only practical reason I see behind baptizing a child when they're an infant is to wash away their sins in case they die when they're young they at least die with a clean slate, and even you have implied this in your answer to me. I don't find that answer satisfactory to baptize a child in this day and age.

Tradition? Sure, that is a strong motivator in the church to do a lot of things. However, the reasoning to me seems... off. It's definitely not something I'd see in a child and think "they might die tomorrow and they are born with sin, so might as well wipe the slate clean". I just don't see it as needed because I think children are clean slates prior to the fact, so they are innocent by default, in my opinion, because they simply don't know right from wrong, so they cannot be sinners or judged in the same way as an adult who has cognition and a conscience is.

Well, the sacrament is administered so early not only because hey, if you were like me and my sisters and born a preemie, your odds might be against you, but also because of its relationship with "birth" in the Church. Baptism is a symbol of having your baby become one with the life of God and the life of the Church. It's a rebirth in Christ. Thus, doing so is good because it helps one (if they proceed with the Sacrament in the right mindset) to also better understand the life of the Church and the spiritual life of the little child they're baptizing.

[Salus Maior]

It's certainly convenient for them though.

Infant baptism for the last two thousand years? What? Noo, that doesn't matter. Adult baptism is the real Christian way.

Christians believing in the Real Presence in the Eucharist for thousands of years? Which is wine and bread? Pffft, nah it's just a symbol! And crackers and grape juice is the right way to do it.

Really, once you start ignoring the history you veer off pretty far from what Christians actually believed.

Come on now, many Protestants still have many Church traditions. Baptism and communion are both sacraments in the Methodist Church. We are baptized as infants and our pastors say "here is Christ's body, broken for you" and "here is Christ's blood, shed for you," at communion. Anglicans and Lutherans have even more traditions.

I wasn't really referring to Protestants like yourself that try to keep close to historic Christian practice and belief. I do really appreciate that when I see it, but it's getting rarer and rarer (which is why your faith as an individual I find comforting and inspiring).

The problem with Protestantism as a whole is that it's severely inconsistent when it comes to beliefs, traditions, and the basic foundations of Christian doctrine.

Of course I understand that Protestantism is not a monolith and never was, but even within single denominations like Anglicanism you can have severe differences in belief, like denial of the virgin birth, the resurrection, and the nature of God as a being himself with no consequence. You can basically not be a Christian at all yet still be a member of the church...Hell, you can even be a Bishop and yet deny everything held to be true in Christianity since the foundations of the Church by Christ Himself.

While I'm less familiar with Methodism, I've seen similar problems arising there as well.

I've honestly lost faith in Protestantism as a vessel that maintains and propagates Christian truth.

[Arcanstotska]

Praise the Lord! For He who loves mankind shalt welcome him into Heaven!
I watched a video. A video that suggests that Jesus will return to us THIS YEAR!
Our Saviour is returning! Rejoice!
(The video actually made me cry tears of joy)

[Luminesa]

Praise the Lord! For He who loves mankind shalt welcome him into Heaven!
I watched a video. A video that suggests that Jesus will return to us THIS YEAR!
Our Saviour is returning! Rejoice!
(The video actually made me cry tears of joy)

...Remember what the Bible says. We do not know the day nor the time. This is knowledge only known to God. We can only pray, however, and continue having a good relationship with God. That way, like the ten bridesmaids who greeted the groom readily, when he came for them, we'll be ready when Christ comes. :3

[Arcanstotska]

Praise the Lord! For He who loves mankind shalt welcome him into Heaven!
I watched a video. A video that suggests that Jesus will return to us THIS YEAR!
Our Saviour is returning! Rejoice!
(The video actually made me cry tears of joy)

...Remember what the Bible says. We do not know the day nor the time. This is knowledge only known to God. We can only pray, however, and continue having a good relationship with God. That way, like the ten bridesmaids who greeted the groom readily, when he came for them, we'll be ready when Christ comes. :3

I know. The video only made a suggestion.
For not even the Angels in Heaven know of the date and time.
Like the Bible says, only God knows.

[Salus Maior]

...Remember what the Bible says. We do not know the day nor the time. This is knowledge only known to God. We can only pray, however, and continue having a good relationship with God. That way, like the ten bridesmaids who greeted the groom readily, when he came for them, we'll be ready when Christ comes. :3

I know. The video only made a suggestion.

They can't know either, though. Only God the Father knows the time.

[Luminesa]

...Remember what the Bible says. We do not know the day nor the time. This is knowledge only known to God. We can only pray, however, and continue having a good relationship with God. That way, like the ten bridesmaids who greeted the groom readily, when he came for them, we'll be ready when Christ comes. :3

I know. The video only made a suggestion.

Ah. :3

Anyway, welcome to the CDT! Dunno if we've ever seen you before!

[Arcanstotska]

I know. The video only made a suggestion.

Ah. :3

Anyway, welcome to the CDT! Dunno if we've ever seen you before!

Nope. I've never seen your nations before. I'm so devoted to Christendom, my nation's national religion is Christianity. Man, it is so nice to be on a Christian thread. Hi! I'm the Empire of Arcanstotska!

[Arcanstotska]

I know. The video only made a suggestion.

Ah. :3

Anyway, welcome to the CDT! Dunno if we've ever seen you before!

I love your flag btw

[Luminesa]

Ah. :3

Anyway, welcome to the CDT! Dunno if we've ever seen you before!

I love your flag btw

Thank you! :3

[Pasong Tirad]

So Christian thread, when did you know that you were Christian? Why did you make that choice?

Both families were strict Roman Catholics. Parents were a bit more loose (and weren't around as much as I'd like) to enforce Catholic practices. Was pretty much lapsed during college and only recently starting to come back to the Church. Technically, I still haven't chosen Christianity because I'm yet to be confirmed.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So a question I want to ask then: Would you have an issue then if the Christian Class had the least amount of attendance?

I wouldn't have an issue with that. I'd love it if classes were just offered. It could also allow people to learn more about religions they are unfamiliar with.

It's certainly convenient for them though.

Infant baptism for the last two thousand years? What? Noo, that doesn't matter. Adult baptism is the real Christian way.

Christians believing in the Real Presence in the Eucharist for thousands of years? Which is wine and bread? Pffft, nah it's just a symbol! And crackers and grape juice is the right way to do it.

Really, once you start ignoring the history you veer off pretty far from what Christians actually believed.

Come on now, many Protestants still have many Church traditions. Baptism and communion are both sacraments in the Methodist Church. We are baptized as infants and our pastors say "here is Christ's body, broken for you" and "here is Christ's blood, shed for you," at communion. Anglicans and Lutherans have even more traditions.

To be fair, every denomination says some variance of that when they offer communion. There's a different between "sacrament" and "ritual."

The catechism describes sacraments as "1131 The sacraments are efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us. the visible rites by which the sacraments are celebrated signify and make present the graces proper to each sacrament. They bear fruit in those who receive them with the required dispositions."

Only a few high church protestant denominations deliver, and have faith in the Eucharist in any manner reflective of this definition. Most do not.

[Nordengrund]

So Christian thread, when did you know that you were Christian? Why did you make that choice?

I was raised Southern Baptist, but for me faith was (and still is) an on-off thing. I don't think I was truly saved until I was 18 when I had backslidden greatly, very apathetic towards people and their problems, and I was borderline deist. I picked up the Bible again after going so long without reading it, and I felt that God was convicting me and telling me I should change.

I also had some experiences with the 7th Day Adventist folks, and I found a lot of their beliefs to make sense and to be consistent.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

So Christian thread, when did you know that you were Christian? Why did you make that choice?

I was raised Southern Baptist, but for me faith was (and still is) an on-off thing. I don't think I was truly saved until I was 18 when I had backslidden greatly, very apathetic towards people and their problems, and I was borderline deist. I picked up the Bible again after going so long without reading it, and I felt that God was convicting me and telling me I should change.

I also had some experiences with the[u] 7th Day Adventist folks, and I found a lot of their beliefs to make sense and to be consistent.[/u]

I must highly warn you against this. I don't know if you were here for a particular 7DA on this thread, but that denomination lends itself to utterly nonsensical practices, like over literalism, and even believing in modern day prophets. Consistency is not the earmark for truth that you might think it is.

[Pasong Tirad]

I was raised Southern Baptist, but for me faith was (and still is) an on-off thing. I don't think I was truly saved until I was 18 when I had backslidden greatly, very apathetic towards people and their problems, and I was borderline deist. I picked up the Bible again after going so long without reading it, and I felt that God was convicting me and telling me I should change.

I also had some experiences with the[u] 7th Day Adventist folks, and I found a lot of their beliefs to make sense and to be consistent.[/u]

I must highly warn you against this. I don't know if you were here for a particular 7DA on this thread, but that denomination lends itself to utterly nonsensical practices, like over literalism, and even believing in modern day prophets. Consistency is not the earmark for truth that you might think it is.

Do you want the actual truth? It's here.

[Luminesa]

So Christian thread, when did you know that you were Christian? Why did you make that choice?

Both families were strict Roman Catholics. Parents were a bit more loose (and weren't around as much as I'd like) to enforce Catholic practices. Was pretty much lapsed during college and only recently starting to come back to the Church. Technically, I still haven't chosen Christianity because I'm yet to be confirmed.

Boi.

TIME TO GET YOU CONFIRMED.

*Gentle push toward your parish church.*

:3

[The Alma Mater]

Ignoring what literally everyone in the ancient world thought about the matter is not a protestant attitude.

It's certainly convenient for them though.

Infant baptism for the last two thousand years? What? Noo, that doesn't matter. Adult baptism is the real Christian way.

Was infant the baptism the norm for the last two thousands years ? Only a few centuries ago kids below the age of 5 did not even get a name because it was unlikely they survived...

[Lady Scylla]

So a question I want to ask then: Would you have an issue then if the Christian Class had the least amount of attendance?

I wouldn't have an issue with that. I'd love it if classes were just offered. It could also allow people to learn more about religions they are unfamiliar with.

Good answer. I wanted to see if you were being genuinely honest in wanting people to explore their options, or if you were solely trying to force people into taking Christian classes.

[Pasong Tirad]

It's certainly convenient for them though.

Infant baptism for the last two thousand years? What? Noo, that doesn't matter. Adult baptism is the real Christian way.

Was infant the baptism the norm for the last two thousands years ? Only a few centuries ago kids below the age of 5 did not even get a name because it was unlikely they survived...

Easy enough to Google.

[Menassa]

Ah. :3

Anyway, welcome to the CDT! Dunno if we've ever seen you before!

Nope. I've never seen your nations before. I'm so devoted to Christendom, my nation's national religion is Christianity. Man, it is so nice to be on a Christian thread. Hi! I'm the Empire of Arcanstotska!

Just a bit of a heads up, on this forum we don't necessarily represent how we want our nations to be run. This is more about who we are as people and less so the nationstates side of things.