Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

Why ? Even ignoring the gifts of the three kings which would make him similar to a "lottery winner" - why assume he was anything less than middle or upper class ?

Perhaps at one point or another in His early life, but in His ministry? Definitely not.

I'd like to ask you, too: why assume he was anything more than lower or middle class?

The humility of Christ is a long standing Tradition, he was born into a manger, poor and dejected. He lived and died the same way.

[Pasong Tirad]

Perhaps at one point or another in His early life, but in His ministry? Definitely not.

I'd like to ask you, too: why assume he was anything more than lower or middle class?

The humility of Christ is a long standing Tradition, he was born into a manger, poor and dejected. He lived and died the same way.

You don't even need tradition to back up Christ's status as a poor man. You can read about it in a book somewhere.

[Czechanada]

It's time to end public funding of Catholic schools

[Hakons]

It's time to end public funding of Catholic schools

Secular schools are not religiously neutral. Secularism favors one religious stance: irreligion. Secularism in a nation's institutions leads to secularism in the society, as we've seen in most Western nations.

[Diopolis]

Perhaps at one point or another in His early life, but in His ministry? Definitely not.

I'd like to ask you, too: why assume he was anything more than lower or middle class?

The humility of Christ is a long standing Tradition, he was born into a manger, poor and dejected. He lived and died the same way.

And the bible indicates He was poor. Notably, it mentions that His parents offered a temple sacrifice only acceptable for the poor. He's referred to in scripture as a laborer/builder reliant on charity to survive(some of the disciples were probably quite wealthy, but Jesus is portrayed as poor).

[Tarsonis Survivors]

The humility of Christ is a long standing Tradition, he was born into a manger, poor and dejected. He lived and died the same way.

And the bible indicates He was poor. Notably, it mentions that His parents offered a temple sacrifice only acceptable for the poor. He's referred to in scripture as a laborer/builder reliant on charity to survive(some of the disciples were probably quite wealthy, but Jesus is portrayed as poor).

Some academics think Mary Magdalene was a wealthy woman who gave Christ and his disciples Patronage.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

It's time to end public funding of Catholic schools

I'm inclined to agree. If All private religious schools received public funds, that'd be one thing. But public money supporting just catholic schools in non-catholic state is favoritism.

[Czechanada]

It's time to end public funding of Catholic schools

Secular schools are not religiously neutral. Secularism favors one religious stance: irreligion. Secularism in a nation's institutions leads to secularism in the society, as we've seen in most Western nations.

Yet secularism has lead to the development of modern religious freedom. The contemporary ability to freely choose and convert to any religion one desires wouldn't otherwise be possible.

[Constantinopolis]

And I'm pretty sure Christ was also relatively poor (I kind of doubt if He was dirt-poor, but definitely lower class).

Why ? Even ignoring the gifts of the three kings which would make him similar to a "lottery winner" -

Those were probably spent to support the family while they were hiding in Egypt.

why assume he was anything less than middle or upper class ?

Because Holy Tradition holds that He was poor, and there are many indications in the Gospels that He was lower class.

[Luminesa]

It's time to end public funding of Catholic schools

"Flash forward 150 years," Pascal said. "We're living in a multicultural society with lots of other religions that need to be respected. The notion that a single religious education schooling system receives public money is simply an anachronism."

> Canada has banned openly showing religious symbols.
> Is essentially only allowing Muslim immigrants in under the presumption that they're going to vote for him.
> "We want to respect other religions!"

And I have ocean-front property in Arizona.

[Luminesa]

Why ? Even ignoring the gifts of the three kings which would make him similar to a "lottery winner" -

Those were probably spent to support the family while they were hiding in Egypt.

why assume he was anything less than middle or upper class ?

Because Holy Tradition holds that He was poor, and there are many indications in the Gospels that He was lower class.

There's also the fact that he was born in a tiny village in which maybe a couple dozen people lived, and usually those sorts of tiny villages are not very...wealthy. Not to mention that Mary came from a family of desert-dwellers (if we want to go by the testimony of Blessed Catherine Emmerich), and well...while Joseph's carpenter-business would have been enough to support the family, they probably would not have had much money left over except for basic foods and amenities (whatever amenities existed in the 1st century AD). Then there's the fact that Jesus was born in a cave, and lived essentially in a house carved from a stone cave.

[Lady Scylla]

It's time to end public funding of Catholic schools

Secular schools are not religiously neutral. Secularism favors one religious stance: irreligion. Secularism in a nation's institutions leads to secularism in the society, as we've seen in most Western nations.

Odd. We learnt a lot about all kinds of religions in my secular education. Me thinks you're talking stupid bullshit.

[Luminesa]

Secular schools are not religiously neutral. Secularism favors one religious stance: irreligion. Secularism in a nation's institutions leads to secularism in the society, as we've seen in most Western nations.

Odd. We learnt a lot about all kinds of religions in my secular education. Me thinks you're talking stupid bullshit.

I mean, anyone can learn about religions, even if they don't support them. My thing is more about how Canada suddenly decided to care about supporting other religions, when they have banned wearing religious symbols in public. Something about this story just doesn't line-up.

[Pasong Tirad]

Those were probably spent to support the family while they were hiding in Egypt.


Because Holy Tradition holds that He was poor, and there are many indications in the Gospels that He was lower class.

There's also the fact that he was born in a tiny village in which maybe a couple dozen people lived, and usually those sorts of tiny villages are not very...wealthy. Not to mention that Mary came from a family of desert-dwellers (if we want to go by the testimony of Blessed Catherine Emmerich), and well...while Joseph's carpenter-business would have been enough to support the family, they probably would not have had much money left over except for basic foods and amenities (whatever amenities existed in the 1st century AD). Then there's the fact that Jesus was born in a cave, and lived essentially in a house carved from a stone cave.

And that Christ basically survived on donations from disciples, even borrowing somebody else's tomb at His death.

[The Blaatschapen]

So Christian thread, when did you know that you were Christian? Why did you make that choice?

[Hakons]

Secular schools are not religiously neutral. Secularism favors one religious stance: irreligion. Secularism in a nation's institutions leads to secularism in the society, as we've seen in most Western nations.

Yet secularism has lead to the development of modern religious freedom. The contemporary ability to freely choose and convert to any religion one desires wouldn't otherwise be possible.

Modern religious freedom was built by a largely Christian society. In America, it was brought about largely because of the memories of the Protestant-Catholic wars in Europe. Religious freedom simply means the government will not be forcing a religion on the populous. However, gradually people pushed secularism into all institutions. Schools, universities, hospitals, and charities have been gradually secularized, when originally they were founded by Christians to do good works. Naturally, when religion was taken out of most institutions, people began to take religion out of their lives entirely, as we see now in Europe, North America, and other Western nations. The original goal of secularism was to protect religion, but it has clearly eroded religion once it was applied to more institutions than just the government.

Secular schools are not religiously neutral. Secularism favors one religious stance: irreligion. Secularism in a nation's institutions leads to secularism in the society, as we've seen in most Western nations.

Odd. We learnt a lot about all kinds of religions in my secular education. Me thinks you're talking stupid bullshit.

My religious education in public school consisted of three 40 min. class periods in 7th grade social studies, where we did the briefest overview of generalized theology for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism.

I think it would be more fair to offer elective religious classes in secondary education.

So Christian thread, when did you know that you were Christian? Why did you make that choice?

For most people, we are Christian because our parents taught us to be Christian. I was given simple Christian theology at the start (when I was younger). As I got older, I was given more nuanced versions that also applied to daily life. I was confirmed into the Church in 7th grade. However, for the most part I was a "relaxed" Christian. I barely read the bible, didn't go to Sunday school or youth group, and didn't think much on Christian theology. I'm not exactly sure why, but I became more interested in my faith last summer. I actually started reading the bible and participated in my Church much more. I also learned a lot about theology from this thread, which is probably why I have a conservative theology compared to most mainline Protestants. The more I learned about Christianity, the more I liked being a Christian. Really, it made me love God and His Church more.

[Dylar]

Odd. We learnt a lot about all kinds of religions in my secular education. Me thinks you're talking stupid bullshit.

My religious education in public school consisted of three 40 min. class periods in 7th grade social studies, where we did the briefest overview of generalized theology for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism.

I think it would be more fair to offer elective religious classes in secondary education.

They do. In my high school at least. It's called "Comparative Religions." I haven't taken it, and I'm not really planning on doing it next year.

[Hakons]

My religious education in public school consisted of three 40 min. class periods in 7th grade social studies, where we did the briefest overview of generalized theology for Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism.

I think it would be more fair to offer elective religious classes in secondary education.

They do. In my high school at least. It's called "Comparative Religions." I haven't taken it, and I'm not really planning on doing it next year.

I was thinking more of a class that was about a single religion. It would actually go deep into the history and theology of the religion, so the general populous could actually know what their religion is. What would be difficult would be determining how many of these classes would be offered, considering there are a large number of religions. One solution could be making classes for the top five religions in the local area, or something along those lines.

[Dylar]

They do. In my high school at least. It's called "Comparative Religions." I haven't taken it, and I'm not really planning on doing it next year.

I was thinking more of a class that was about a single religion. It would actually go deep into the history and theology of the religion, so the general populous could actually know what their religion is. What would be difficult would be determining how many of these classes would be offered, considering there are a large number of religions. One solution could be making classes for the top five religions in the local area, or something along those lines.

That's what Sunday School classes are for at churches.

[Hakons]

I was thinking more of a class that was about a single religion. It would actually go deep into the history and theology of the religion, so the general populous could actually know what their religion is. What would be difficult would be determining how many of these classes would be offered, considering there are a large number of religions. One solution could be making classes for the top five religions in the local area, or something along those lines.

That's what Sunday School classes are for at churches.

Sunday school is once a week, if people choose to go to Church. I don't know about you, but Sunday school was usually on light topics that related to daily life. I didn't learn how to defend Christian theology and I didn't learn much Christian history.

[Dylar]

That's what Sunday School classes are for at churches.

Sunday school is once a week, if people choose to go to Church. I don't know about you, but Sunday school was usually on light topics that related to daily life. I didn't learn how to defend Christian theology and I didn't learn much Christian history.

Not for me. Sunday school for me was "Let's learn about Moses and the prophets, then next week, we learn how to pray the Rosary, and by the time you're in 3rd grade, we'll teach you about the Eucharist, and how it is truly the body blood soul and divinity of Christ! And when you're in high school, you'll be going into Confirmation class to learn about the core tenants of the Catholic faith, and why we do what we do. Still not satisfied after Confirmation class? Well, after you're Confirmed, you can go to our adult class where we'll be reading 'Catholicism For Dummies' which teaches the same Confirmation stuff, but it delves in even deeper." That's my Sunday School life.

[Pasong Tirad]

Sunday school is once a week, if people choose to go to Church. I don't know about you, but Sunday school was usually on light topics that related to daily life. I didn't learn how to defend Christian theology and I didn't learn much Christian history.

Not for me. Sunday school for me was "Let's learn about Moses and the prophets, then next week, we learn how to pray the Rosary, and by the time you're in 3rd grade, we'll teach you about the Eucharist, and how it is truly the body blood soul and divinity of Christ! And when you're in high school, you'll be going into Confirmation class to learn about the core tenants of the Catholic faith, and why we do what we do. Still not satisfied after Confirmation class? Well, after you're Confirmed, you can go to our adult class where we'll be reading 'Catholicism For Dummies' which teaches the same Confirmation stuff, but it delves in even deeper." That's my Sunday School life.

Sounds like Catholic school, tbh.

[Dylar]

Not for me. Sunday school for me was "Let's learn about Moses and the prophets, then next week, we learn how to pray the Rosary, and by the time you're in 3rd grade, we'll teach you about the Eucharist, and how it is truly the body blood soul and divinity of Christ! And when you're in high school, you'll be going into Confirmation class to learn about the core tenants of the Catholic faith, and why we do what we do. Still not satisfied after Confirmation class? Well, after you're Confirmed, you can go to our adult class where we'll be reading 'Catholicism For Dummies' which teaches the same Confirmation stuff, but it delves in even deeper." That's my Sunday School life.

Sounds like Catholic school, tbh.

Yep, only it's once a week and lasts about an hour.

[Hakons]

Sunday school is once a week, if people choose to go to Church. I don't know about you, but Sunday school was usually on light topics that related to daily life. I didn't learn how to defend Christian theology and I didn't learn much Christian history.

Not for me. Sunday school for me was "Let's learn about Moses and the prophets, then next week, we learn how to pray the Rosary, and by the time you're in 3rd grade, we'll teach you about the Eucharist, and how it is truly the body blood soul and divinity of Christ! And when you're in high school, you'll be going into Confirmation class to learn about the core tenants of the Catholic faith, and why we do what we do. Still not satisfied after Confirmation class? Well, after you're Confirmed, you can go to our adult class where we'll be reading 'Catholicism For Dummies' which teaches the same Confirmation stuff, but it delves in even deeper." That's my Sunday School life.

That's much better than what I got. In elementary years it was mainly arts and crafts that related to a story in the Bible. Middle school and onward was more about applying Christian concepts to daily life. We touched a little about theology and history in confirmation. Much of what I know about Christianity comes from personal effort.

[Pasong Tirad]

Sounds like Catholic school, tbh.

Yep, only it's once a week and lasts about an hour.

I've had religion classes every day until I graduated high school. It usually disillusions your faith at a certain point.