NATION

PASSWORD

Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your denomination?

Roman Catholic
268
36%
Eastern Orthodox
66
9%
Non-Chalcedonian (Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, etc.)
4
1%
Anglican/Episcopalian
36
5%
Lutheran or Reformed (including Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc.)
93
12%
Methodist
33
4%
Baptist
67
9%
Other Evangelical Protestant (Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.)
55
7%
Restorationist (LDS Movement, Jehovah's Witness, etc.)
22
3%
Other Christian
101
14%
 
Total votes : 745

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Novsvacro
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Postby Novsvacro » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:23 pm

I'm considering taking a job teaching English in Bolivia next year, but I'm not sure whether there are any churches in the area I'll be working. Is it a sin to live away from a place of worship willingly?
Cuando el amor llega así, de esta manera,
uno no tiene la culpa
quererse no tiene horario
ni fecha en el calendario

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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:25 pm

Novsvacro wrote:I'm considering taking a job teaching English in Bolivia next year, but I'm not sure whether there are any churches in the area I'll be working. Is it a sin to live away from a place of worship willingly?

There's definitely churches in Bolivia though, if you gotta drive two hours to get to one that's what you'll have to do. I mean, you gotta go to church fam. Though I think teaching English in Bolivia is a wonderful idea and you should go for it! :)
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and the greatest is love."
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:32 pm

Constantinopolis wrote:
The United Neptumousian Empire wrote:hello fellows. remember me?

I've changed a fair bit since I last posted in this thread...

Hey, Flood! Great to see you again! We should get back in touch by TG... but probably not right now, as I am traveling and only have time to get on NS a couple of times per week.

Can you explain to me how you construe Basil's words to mean, "If anyone has more than you, murder them and take it"?
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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:40 pm

What's up with the bit in the gospel of Mark where Jesus smites the out of season fig tree?
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:41 pm

Philjia wrote:What's up with the bit in the gospel of Mark where Jesus smites the out of season fig tree?


I knew at one point, but I've forgotten. It does seem a bit random, but I believe there is a decent explanation for it.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:46 pm

Philjia wrote:What's up with the bit in the gospel of Mark where Jesus smites the out of season fig tree?

It's a metaphor for Jerusalem and hypocritical Jews who don't bear the fruit proper to piety. Jerusalem is going to be destroyed by the Romans as will all Israel in the wordly sense. But it's also a warning to Christians that if you fail to bear the fruit proper to Christianity, God will reject you. See also John the Baptist's words about fruit
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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:49 pm

Novsvacro wrote:I'm considering taking a job teaching English in Bolivia next year, but I'm not sure whether there are any churches in the area I'll be working. Is it a sin to live away from a place of worship willingly?

This is South America we're talking about here. If you're Catholic, there's definitely going to be a church nearby.

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Novsvacro wrote:I'm considering taking a job teaching English in Bolivia next year, but I'm not sure whether there are any churches in the area I'll be working. Is it a sin to live away from a place of worship willingly?


What area of Bolivia are you going? Is it near a metropolitan area or a city?

Usually, you will find churches even in minor villages though, so churches should not be an issue.
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:52 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Novsvacro wrote:I'm considering taking a job teaching English in Bolivia next year, but I'm not sure whether there are any churches in the area I'll be working. Is it a sin to live away from a place of worship willingly?

This is South America we're talking about here. If you're Catholic, there's definitely going to be a church nearby.


This is a common misconception from developed countries though.

I literally had someone, a protestant fellow, be worried about food and shelter in El Salvador.

People, just because most of you call it "third-world" doesn't mean "literally the middle of fucking nowhere".
Soldati senza confini: Better than an iPod in shuffle more with 20,000 songs.
Tekania wrote:Welcome to NSG, where informed opinions get to bump-heads with ignorant ideology under the pretense of an equal footing.

"When it’s a choice of putting food on the table, or thinking about your morals, it’s easier to say you’d think about your morals, but only if you’ve never faced that decision." - Anastasia Richardson

Current Goal: Flesh out nation factbook.

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Constantinopolis
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Postby Constantinopolis » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:07 pm

So, as most of you know, I always mark the Great Feasts of the Orthodox Church with special posts. However, for the one coming up on September 8th, I won't actually be here to post - I'll be traveling without internet access. Therefore I'm going to make this post a day early (or two days, depending on your time zone).

Now, without further ado, here is my post to mark the first Orthodox Great Feast of the year! ...what do I mean, "first of the year", you ask? Well, the Orthodox Christian year technically begins on September 1st. So the upcoming Great Feast, being on September 8th, is the first of the year. And that is very appropriate, since the event it celebrates was chronologically the first among all the events marked by Great Feasts.

The Nativity of the Most Holy Theotokos
(the birth of the Virgin Mary)

Image

It is interesting that the first Great Feast of the year is the birth of the Theotokos (September 8th), and the last Great Feast is her death (August 15th). It makes sense that these two events should serve as the bookends or the frame within which everything else is contained. The story of our salvation begins with Mary's birth, continues with the Annunciation and with the birth of the Incarnate God in the person of Jesus Christ, goes on with the Baptism of Christ and His Earthly ministry, then culminates with the Passion, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and the Ascension of Christ. After that, the story winds down with the founding of the Church (Pentecost), and ends with the death of the Theotokos.

We go through this story every year. It's what the annual liturgical cycle of the Church is all about. Of course, the Great Feasts marking those wonderous events don't actually fall throughout the year in a neat chronological order. The Annunciation falls after Christmas, for example, and then we have the Great Feast of the Transfiguration, which marks an event in the Earthly life of Christ but falls in early August, after we've already celebrated His Resurrection and Ascension. So no, things don't conveniently line up in the Church year in precisely the same order as they happened. But the earliest event does happen to come first, and the last event in the story of salvation does happen to come last.

So what is this earliest event that we celebrate today? Well, it's pretty straightforward: Mary's birthday. Other events marked by Great Feasts have many deeper layers of meaning and can sometimes even be difficult to understand (such as the Transfiguration), but this one is exactly what it says on the box. A child named Miriam (Mary), who would later become the Mother of God, was born in Palestine some time in the final decades of the 1st century BC.

We know about her parents and about the circumstances of her birth from the extra-canonical ancient Christian text known as the Protoevangelium of James (the "Infancy Gospel" of James). This text is traditionally believed to have been written by St. James the Just, the first bishop of Jerusalem, who was the stepbrother of Christ and thus also Mary's stepson (he was biologically the son of St. Joseph from a previous marriage). Whether St. James the Just actually wrote the Protoevangelium, or whether it was written by someone else named James, is a matter of dispute. In any case, the text was not included in any version of the New Testament canon and is not believed to be divinely inspired, but it was considered by many Church Fathers (and by the Orthodox Church as a whole) to be a generally good and useful account of the events it describes.

Mary's parents were Joachim and Anna, an elderly childless couple who were both extremely sad and distressed by the fact that they had never been able to conceive a child. They both prayed fervently to God to grant them a child. Joachim went to the Temple to make sacrifices, and after being told by the high priest that he wasn't welcome there, he was greatly troubled and went into the desert with his tent to spend 40 days in fasting and prayer. Anna, having stayed behind at their home, believed Joachim to be dead since he had not returned, and lamented that she was now a widow in addition to being barren (historical note: Anna's lament, as written down in the Protoevangelium of James, is notable as a major work of poetry from this period).

Eventually, an angel appeared to Anna and said, “Anna, Anna, the Lord has heard your prayer; you will conceive and bring forth, and your progeny shall be spoken of in all the world.” And Anna answered, “As the Lord my God lives, whatever I bring forth, whether it be male or female, I will devote it to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in holy things, during its whole life.”

An angel also appeared to Joachim and told him that his prayer was heard and that he should return home. Anna met him at the gate of their home and they hugged (literally, the text says: “Anna stood by the gate and saw Joachim coming with the shepherds. And she ran, and hanging about his neck, said, "Now I know that the Lord has greatly blessed me: For behold, I who was a widow am no longer a widow, and I who was barren shall conceive." ”). This encounter is frequently depicted in iconography.

“And when nine months were fulfilled to Anna, she brought forth, and said to the midwife, "What have I brought forth?" And she told her, "A girl." Then Anna said, "the Lord has this day magnified my soul"; and she laid her in bed.”

As is customary when I post to mark a Great Feast, here are some hymns for the occasion on YouTube:
Troparion for the Nativity of the Theotokos (in French)
Odes 1 and 9 from the Canon for the Nativity of the Theotokos (in Greek)
A clip from a Divine Liturgy for the Nativity of the Theotokos (in English; the video just seems to show the choir)

Troparion:

Your Nativity, O Virgin,
Has proclaimed joy to the whole universe!
The Sun of Righteousness, Christ our God,
Has shone from You, O Theotokos!
By annulling the curse,
He bestowed a blessing.
By destroying death, He has granted us eternal Life.


Kontakion:

By Your Nativity, O Most Pure Virgin,
Joachim and Anna are freed from barrenness;
Adam and Eve, from the corruption of death.
And we, your people, freed from the guilt of sin, celebrate and sing to you:
The barren woman gives birth to the Theotokos, the nourisher of our life!


And finally, although it's not related to the feast of her nativity in particular, here are two beautiful performances of the hymn Axion Estin ("It is truly meet" or "It is truly right"), one in English and one in Greek:

In English, by the choir of St. John of San Francisco Monastery
In Greek, by Divna Ljubojević

It is truly meet and right to bless you, O Theotokos,
Ever-blessed and most-pure and the mother of our God.
More honourable than the Cherubim,
And beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim,
Who without corruption gave birth to God the Word,
True Theotokos, we magnify you.
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My posts on the 12 Great Feasts of the Orthodox Church: -I- -II- -III- -IV- -V- -VI- -VII- -VIII- [PASCHA] -IX- -X- -XI- -XII-

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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:10 pm


"the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve."
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Novsvacro
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Postby Novsvacro » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:30 pm

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:This is South America we're talking about here. If you're Catholic, there's definitely going to be a church nearby.


This is a common misconception from developed countries though.

I literally had someone, a protestant fellow, be worried about food and shelter in El Salvador.

People, just because most of you call it "third-world" doesn't mean "literally the middle of fucking nowhere".

It's a village up in the highlands in a mostly Aymara-speaking area. I think my concern is justified. :blush:

Also, I was kind of asking just in general. Is it sinful to live in an area without access to a church?
Last edited by Novsvacro on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cuando el amor llega así, de esta manera,
uno no tiene la culpa
quererse no tiene horario
ni fecha en el calendario

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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:34 pm

Novsvacro wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:
This is a common misconception from developed countries though.

I literally had someone, a protestant fellow, be worried about food and shelter in El Salvador.

People, just because most of you call it "third-world" doesn't mean "literally the middle of fucking nowhere".

It's a village up in the highlands in a mostly Aymara-speaking area. I think my concern is justified. :blush:

Also, I was kind of asking just in general. Is it sinful to live in an area without access to a church?

93% of Bolivia is Christian. Might not be as justified as you think, though.

And definitely not.

If there is no church, then build one! :D
Last edited by Pasong Tirad on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:57 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Constantinopolis wrote:Hey, Flood! Great to see you again! We should get back in touch by TG... but probably not right now, as I am traveling and only have time to get on NS a couple of times per week.

Can you explain to me how you construe Basil's words to mean, "If anyone has more than you, murder them and take it"?


As one who spars with const constantly on this subject, you're egregiously misrepresenting his position.
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Bari
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Postby Bari » Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:59 pm

This is personal, but please pray for the safe and full recovery of my father. He is quite ill, and they don't even know what he's suffering from. I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

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Samkheidzo
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Postby Samkheidzo » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:08 pm

Constantinopolis wrote:გამარჯობა! (I hope I got that right) Georgia is a fascinating country and it's very high up on my list of places to visit soon. The Georgian chant tradition, in particular, is something I want to experience in real life. It sounds angelic.

And I love bringing up St. Nino every time someone foolishly claims that the prohibition on female clergy somehow hinders women from leadership roles. St. Nino brought an entire nation to Christ, without being part of the clergy.

But most impressively, Georgia has this guy, whoever he is. That guy is the very definition of cool. :lol:

გამარჯობა და ღვთის კურთხევები! (Hello, and blessings of God). You absolutely should visit it :P I do agree, our chant tradition is enchanting to hear. But, sadly, less heard of than say, Russia's traditions. It's actually one thing I miss on Sunday's, since I've moved to the US. My current Parish is mostly comprised of American converts, and a few Russian immigrants and it does not have a real, clear tradition when it comes to chants.

As for St. Nino - not a well known Saint, but a great example of the motsikultastsori - equal to the apostles. She is my mother's namesake, and one of the few things brought to America when we immigrated was an Icon of St. Nino my grandfather had made for my mother. If you ever get to make a pilgrimage to Bodbe Monastery, where her tomb is, I think it is highly worth it.

As for that guy? What can I say, us Georgians are cool 8)

Constantinopolis wrote:Okay, I have to ask, because this question has been bugging me for YEARS:

Why don't you guys just officially ask the world to refer to your country as "Sakartvelo" in every language, and be done with it??

Other countries have done similar things before. In the early 20th century, Persia officially asked the world to start calling it by its native name - Iran - and that's what everyone calls it now. More recently, Burma asked to be called Myanmar (an English spelling of its native name), and most people and governments have started doing so.

Just ask the world to call your country by its native name - Sakartvelo - and the confusion will end.

It's actually a good question; one that has bothered me as well. What's even more confusing is in 1995 our Constitution officially stated we were the Republic of Georgia. The 2004 Amendments? Nope, we're just the State of Georgia. Just like the US State of Georgia. Because we weren't confused enough. *Some* people use the ancient Roman/Greek name, Iberia. But that just confuses us with Spain/Portugal.

Soldati Senza Confini wrote:What would be their denonym though, Sakartvelos? Sakartvelians? Sarvians? Something else? :unsure:

In Georgian, our denonym is Kartvelebi which in English is Kartvelian.

Constantinopolis wrote:
Soldati Senza Confini wrote:What would be their denonym though, Sakartvelos? Sakartvelians? Sarvians? Something else? :unsure:

Kartvelians. Or possibly Kartvels.

As I understand it, in the Georgian language, a word construction in the pattern Sa____o means "Land of the ____ people". Thus, a person from Sakartvelo is a Kartvel.

This is correct. sa___o is land of the ___ people. Samkheidzo, would be, the land of the Mkheidze people. Because i'm creative.

Bari wrote:This is personal, but please pray for the safe and full recovery of my father. He is quite ill, and they don't even know what he's suffering from. I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

I'll keep him in my prayers.

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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:38 pm

Bari wrote:This is personal, but please pray for the safe and full recovery of my father. He is quite ill, and they don't even know what he's suffering from. I'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

Will do! :hug:
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

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"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:40 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:

"the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve."

Eyyyyyyyyy! :lol2:
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson

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Maineiacs
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Postby Maineiacs » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:32 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:

"the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve."



"... a heaping helping of whoop-ass!" :D
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:01 am

Novsvacro wrote:I'm considering taking a job teaching English in Bolivia next year, but I'm not sure whether there are any churches in the area I'll be working. Is it a sin to live away from a place of worship willingly?


Bolivia is stuffed with Mennonites and other Anabaptists, fine honest hard working people. They are busy in Paraguay too.

https://anabaptisthistorians.org/tag/bo ... ennonites/

http://repository.law.miami.edu/cgi/vie ... ext=umialr
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The United Neptumousian Empire
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Postby The United Neptumousian Empire » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:25 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
The United Neptumousian Empire wrote:I'm not a Christian anymore, so you could say so

it's all in my signature

I still respect those with religious beliefs, however.

What sort of Christian were you before?

I was Catholic.

now I'm agnostic, but I guess I'd say I still lean slightly toward theism... at least hope for that anyway.

I don't like the idea of complete nihilism, way too depressing.

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The United Neptumousian Empire
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Postby The United Neptumousian Empire » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:29 am

Constantinopolis wrote:
The United Neptumousian Empire wrote:hello fellows. remember me?

I've changed a fair bit since I last posted in this thread...

Hey, Flood! Great to see you again! We should get back in touch by TG... but probably not right now, as I am traveling and only have time to get on NS a couple of times per week.

oh yes. I think I asked you something a while ago... like a long time ago, I don't really remember what it was

you'll be happy to know I'm a communist now though

Agnostic
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The United Neptumousian Empire
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Postby The United Neptumousian Empire » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:33 am

Luminesa wrote:
The United Neptumousian Empire wrote:I'm not a Christian anymore, so you could say so

it's all in my signature

I still respect those with religious beliefs, however.

Wow, um...you did change a lot.

Do you maybe wanna talk? Wassup?

sure! ask me whatever you want. I'm really not that different though, I just know who I am more. I still love Dragon Ball and art and all that.

it's nice to see that people remember me here still. I hope I'll still be accepted, even as an agnostic tranny :p

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:46 am

Is there a difference between saying oh my god and oh my gosh?

Since they mean the same, except that the latter one is supposedly not blasphemous?
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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:44 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:Is there a difference between saying oh my god and oh my gosh?

Since they mean the same, except that the latter one is supposedly not blasphemous?

The first one is not necessarily blasphemous, but it's really just not recommended that His name is used that lightly. "Oh my gosh" is not really the same thing.
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