Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

[The United Neptumousian Empire]

hello fellows? remember me?

I've changed a fair bit since I last posted in this thread...

Theologically, or?

I'm not a Christian anymore, so you could say so

it's all in my signature

I still respect those with religious beliefs, however.

[The Parkus Empire]

Theologically, or?

I'm not a Christian anymore, so you could say so

it's all in my signature

I still respect those with religious beliefs, however.

What sort of Christian were you before?

[Dylar]

hello fellows? remember me?

I've changed a fair bit since I last posted in this thread...

hai

I'm not an Christian but i'm interested in the religion

Join the Catholics, we have wine and cookies.

Don't forget that we also have copious amounts of "Deus Vult" and "Ave Maria!"

[Diopolis]

That's vague.

It's a term Gogol used regarding defending the Church from attacks Jesuits were making at the time: "Only one kind of propaganda is possible for us—our own lives. We must defend our Church with our lives, for she is life; and we must proclaim her truth by the fragrance of our souls."

And there's also a difference between telling someone they're in sin out of concern or as an attempt to help them, and doing so to make yourself seem like a better person. Which is what the speck/log in-the-eye parable means. As in "look at that sinner, I don't sin as much as him!".

"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

The passage is referring to fraternal correction stemming from arrogance. Fraternal correction in general can be a duty, but not that stems from pride, most offensive to God of the capital sins.

[The Parkus Empire]

It's a term Gogol used regarding defending the Church from attacks Jesuits were making at the time: "Only one kind of propaganda is possible for us—our own lives. We must defend our Church with our lives, for she is life; and we must proclaim her truth by the fragrance of our souls."


"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

The passage is referring to fraternal correction stemming from arrogance. Fraternal correction in general can be a duty, but not that stems from pride, most offensive to God of the capital sins.

Correction of non-Christians is not a duty, it is a sin: "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?"

[Samkheidzo]

Wow, that's nice to hear. I watched Wizard of Landscape on MBC, and Georgia looked so vast and lush.

I don't mean to brag or anything, but Georgia definitely is one of the most beautiful places I've seen in my life-time. If you ever get the chance, I recommend visiting some of the ancient monasteries you find in the valleys between mountains.

I'm not Russian; I'm a convert in America, but with an interest in Russian history. Georgia has a very underrated history though, and continues to be one of the most devout countries in the world.

Ah, very neat! Russian history certainly is fascinating. The Russian states, unification, expansion *cough* into Georgia*cough*. But you are right. Georgia is a lot of times forgotten about, overlooked when I think historically, and culturally (and especially spiritually) we have a lot to offer. But, alas, we're forever cursed with the "you're from Georgia? But... You don't sound American?" curse.

Be careful, this place has arguments that are longer than some of the worst fanfics I have ever read.

Thanks! And thanks for the warning. Luckily, that probably means there's lots of points and details to read which interests me!

Calling a non-Christian a sinner isn't helping them redeem themselves at all, and you're deluding yourself if you think going around to pluck the motes out of the eyes of others is your "duty". "Sinner" is the worse possible condemnation you can make of someone--calling them a clumsy idiot, or ugly or even a racial slur pales in comparison to that, because God does not hold any of those things to be bad or wrong.

Literally everyone is a sinner so calling someone a sinner would just be a statement of a fact. All people are in sin, which is why we need Christ.

I do agree here; we are all sinners and that is why we are in need of Christ, I do think there is a fine line when we talk to non-Christians on the subject. I find that, and again this is just my experience, the best way to talk to someone about religion is to be non-confrontational. When we appear to be argumentative on the subject it indicates that we're not willing to listen to the other person's point of view - and if we're not willing to listen, why should they listen to us? So, if we aren't confrontational (eg "you need Christ because you're a sinner") but instead listening to them ("I believe that all men are sinners, myself included, and that is why Christ is central to my faith") you have a better chance at dialogue and explaining the Faith to others. I do believe it is our duty to, at the very least, attempt to dialogue with others on Christianity, you never know - it could lead them to have Faith. But it's how we approach this topic that can mean the world of difference.

Hello, hello!

Hello, hello, hello!

[Guelder]

hello fellows? remember me?

I've changed a fair bit since I last posted in this thread...

hai

I'm not an Christian but i'm interested in the religion

Join the Catholics, we have wine and cookies.

No

[Dylar]

hai




Join the Catholics, we have wine and cookies.

No

But why??

[Guelder]

No

But why??

I want to join the Protestants

[The Parkus Empire]

But why??

I want to join the Protestants

Tsk, tsk. Eastern Orthodox is best.

[Salus Maior]

That's vague.

It's a term Gogol used regarding defending the Church from attacks Jesuits were making at the time: "Only one kind of propaganda is possible for us—our own lives. We must defend our Church with our lives, for she is life; and we must proclaim her truth by the fragrance of our souls."

And there's also a difference between telling someone they're in sin out of concern or as an attempt to help them, and doing so to make yourself seem like a better person. Which is what the speck/log in-the-eye parable means. As in "look at that sinner, I don't sin as much as him!".

"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

Again, not very descriptive of what people ought to be doing.

Yes, that verse. It's more about pridefulness, it's about ignoring your own sins and pointing out everyone else's. That is sinful. But informing someone of their sin without a sense of pride-in-self and a sincere willingness to help is not sinful.

I mean, if someone is going to be saved they're going to have to know what from eventually. Of course how that's done can be tricky.

[The Parkus Empire]

It's a term Gogol used regarding defending the Church from attacks Jesuits were making at the time: "Only one kind of propaganda is possible for us—our own lives. We must defend our Church with our lives, for she is life; and we must proclaim her truth by the fragrance of our souls."


"Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?"

Again, not very descriptive of what people ought to be doing.

Yes, that verse. It's more about pridefulness, it's about ignoring your own sins and pointing out everyone else's. That is sinful. But informing someone of their sin without a sense of pride-in-self and a sincere willingness to help is not sinful.

I mean, if someone is going to be saved they're going to have to know what from eventually. Of course how that's done can be tricky.

Okay, well I'm done arguing this and I'm just going to chalk it up to a major difference in Catholic and Orthodox approaches. I'm not even sure our concept of salvation is the same here, it seems you understand it only as remission, whereas we see it as more than just that.

[Salus Maior]

Again, not very descriptive of what people ought to be doing.

Yes, that verse. It's more about pridefulness, it's about ignoring your own sins and pointing out everyone else's. That is sinful. But informing someone of their sin without a sense of pride-in-self and a sincere willingness to help is not sinful.

I mean, if someone is going to be saved they're going to have to know what from eventually. Of course how that's done can be tricky.

Okay, well I'm done arguing this and I'm just going to chalk it up to a major difference in Catholic and Orthodox approaches. I'm not even sure our concept of salvation is the same here, it seems you understand it only as remission, whereas we see it as more than just that.

I have a surprise for you.

I'm not Catholic I'm kinda in-between denominations right now.

[The Parkus Empire]

Okay, well I'm done arguing this and I'm just going to chalk it up to a major difference in Catholic and Orthodox approaches. I'm not even sure our concept of salvation is the same here, it seems you understand it only as remission, whereas we see it as more than just that.

I have a surprise for you.

I'm not Catholic I'm kinda in-between denominations right now.

Whatever you are, your understanding of Christianity here is different from mine and that is because of where I get my understanding.

[Samkheidzo]

Again, not very descriptive of what people ought to be doing.

Yes, that verse. It's more about pridefulness, it's about ignoring your own sins and pointing out everyone else's. That is sinful. But informing someone of their sin without a sense of pride-in-self and a sincere willingness to help is not sinful.

I mean, if someone is going to be saved they're going to have to know what from eventually. Of course how that's done can be tricky.

Okay, well I'm done arguing this and I'm just going to chalk it up to a major difference in Catholic and Orthodox approaches. I'm not even sure our concept of salvation is the same here, it seems you understand it only as remission, whereas we see it as more than just that.

My understanding of the Catholic (and generally, Western) view of Salvation is that it is being pardoned for a crime, meaning that once one has been pardoned they should strive to not commit a crime again. While the Orthodox approach is more... being healed from an injury, and the continuing strive to remain healthy and to get healthier so to speak. Thats how I was explained it once, whether or not it is accurate I cannot say.

[Salus Maior]

Okay, well I'm done arguing this and I'm just going to chalk it up to a major difference in Catholic and Orthodox approaches. I'm not even sure our concept of salvation is the same here, it seems you understand it only as remission, whereas we see it as more than just that.

My understanding of the Catholic (and generally, Western) view of Salvation is that it is being pardoned for a crime, meaning that once one has been pardoned they should strive to not commit a crime again. While the Orthodox approach is more... being healed from an injury, and the continuing strive to remain healthy and to get healthier so to speak. Thats how I was explained it once, whether or not it is accurate I cannot say.

That sounds about right from what I've heard.

[Tarsonis Survivors]

But why??

I want to join the Protestants

For what reason?

[Constantinopolis]

hello fellows. remember me?

I've changed a fair bit since I last posted in this thread...

Hey, Flood! Great to see you again! We should get back in touch by TG... but probably not right now, as I am traveling and only have time to get on NS a couple of times per week.

[Thermodolia]

But why??

I want to join the Protestants

Don't join the knock offs join the original heresy

[Constantinopolis]

Hey! I guess I should introduce myself, maybe? I don't know what the protocol is.

I'm an (Eastern) Orthodox Christian, and I am really interested in the topic of religion/theology. I used to use NationStates years ago but forgot all about it. Decided to come back and saw this thread, it caught my eye as one of my interests. I'm looking forward to discussing more with people here!

I should preface that I live in the United States currently and my parish is OCA but I was raised/baptised in the Georgian Orthodox Church.

გამარჯობა! (I hope I got that right) Georgia is a fascinating country and it's very high up on my list of places to visit soon. The Georgian chant tradition, in particular, is something I want to experience in real life. It sounds angelic.

And I love bringing up St. Nino every time someone foolishly claims that the prohibition on female clergy somehow hinders women from leadership roles. St. Nino brought an entire nation to Christ, without being part of the clergy.

But most impressively, Georgia has this guy, whoever he is. That guy is the very definition of cool.

But, alas, we're forever cursed with the "you're from Georgia? But... You don't sound American?" curse.

Okay, I have to ask, because this question has been bugging me for YEARS:

Why don't you guys just officially ask the world to refer to your country as "Sakartvelo" in every language, and be done with it??

Other countries have done similar things before. In the early 20th century, Persia officially asked the world to start calling it by its native name - Iran - and that's what everyone calls it now. More recently, Burma asked to be called Myanmar (an English spelling of its native name), and most people and governments have started doing so.

Just ask the world to call your country by its native name - Sakartvelo - and the confusion will end.

[Salus Maior]

Hey! I guess I should introduce myself, maybe? I don't know what the protocol is.

I'm an (Eastern) Orthodox Christian, and I am really interested in the topic of religion/theology. I used to use NationStates years ago but forgot all about it. Decided to come back and saw this thread, it caught my eye as one of my interests. I'm looking forward to discussing more with people here!

I should preface that I live in the United States currently and my parish is OCA but I was raised/baptised in the Georgian Orthodox Church.

გამარჯობა! (I hope I got that right) Georgia is a fascinating country and it's very high up on my list of places to visit soon. The Georgian chant tradition, in particular, is something I want to experience in real life. It sounds angelic.

And I love bringing up St. Nino every time someone foolishly claims that the prohibition on female clergy somehow hinders women from leadership roles. St. Nino brought an entire nation to Christ, without being part of the clergy.

But most impressively, Georgia has this guy, whoever he is. That guy is the very definition of cool.

But, alas, we're forever cursed with the "you're from Georgia? But... You don't sound American?" curse.

Okay, I have to ask, because this question has been bugging me for YEARS:

Why don't you guys just officially ask the world to refer to your country as "Sakartvelo" in every language, and be done with it??

Other countries have done similar things before. In the early 20th century, Persia officially asked the world to start calling it by its native name - Iran - and that's what everyone calls it now. More recently, Burma asked to be called Myanmar (an English spelling of its native name), and most people and governments have started doing so.

Just ask the world to call your country by its native name - Sakartvelo - and the confusion will end.

Why is it called Georgia anyway?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Hey! I guess I should introduce myself, maybe? I don't know what the protocol is.

I'm an (Eastern) Orthodox Christian, and I am really interested in the topic of religion/theology. I used to use NationStates years ago but forgot all about it. Decided to come back and saw this thread, it caught my eye as one of my interests. I'm looking forward to discussing more with people here!

I should preface that I live in the United States currently and my parish is OCA but I was raised/baptised in the Georgian Orthodox Church.

გამარჯობა! (I hope I got that right) Georgia is a fascinating country and it's very high up on my list of places to visit soon. The Georgian chant tradition, in particular, is something I want to experience in real life. It sounds angelic.

And I love bringing up St. Nino every time someone foolishly claims that the prohibition on female clergy somehow hinders women from leadership roles. St. Nino brought an entire nation to Christ, without being part of the clergy.

But most impressively, Georgia has this guy, whoever he is. That guy is the very definition of cool.

But, alas, we're forever cursed with the "you're from Georgia? But... You don't sound American?" curse.

Okay, I have to ask, because this question has been bugging me for YEARS:

Why don't you guys just officially ask the world to refer to your country as "Sakartvelo" in every language, and be done with it??

Other countries have done similar things before. In the early 20th century, Persia officially asked the world to start calling it by its native name - Iran - and that's what everyone calls it now. More recently, Burma asked to be called Myanmar (an English spelling of its native name), and most people and governments have started doing so.

Just ask the world to call your country by its native name - Sakartvelo - and the confusion will end.

What would be their denonym though, Sakartvelos? Sakartvelians? Sarvians? Something else?

[Constantinopolis]

Okay, I have to ask, because this question has been bugging me for YEARS:

Why don't you guys just officially ask the world to refer to your country as "Sakartvelo" in every language, and be done with it??

Other countries have done similar things before. In the early 20th century, Persia officially asked the world to start calling it by its native name - Iran - and that's what everyone calls it now. More recently, Burma asked to be called Myanmar (an English spelling of its native name), and most people and governments have started doing so.

Just ask the world to call your country by its native name - Sakartvelo - and the confusion will end.

What would be their denonym though, Sakartvelos? Sakartvelians? Sarvians? Something else?

Kartvelians. Or possibly Kartvels.

As I understand it, in the Georgian language, a word construction in the pattern Sa____o means "Land of the ____ people". Thus, a person from Sakartvelo is a Kartvel.

Why is it called Georgia anyway?

Europeans started calling it that in the Middle Ages, but no one really knows why. One hypothesis is that "Georgia" is a bad European pronunciation of the Persian name for the country. Another idea is that it comes from St. George, who was (and is) held in particularly high regard in the country.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

hello fellows. remember me?

I've changed a fair bit since I last posted in this thread...

That you have.

I'll TG you, I hope you don't mind me doing so.

[Luminesa]

Theologically, or?

I'm not a Christian anymore, so you could say so

it's all in my signature

I still respect those with religious beliefs, however.

Wow, um...you did change a lot.

Do you maybe wanna talk? Wassup?