NATION

PASSWORD

Christian Discussion Thread VIII: Augustine's Revenge.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What is your denomination?

Roman Catholic
268
36%
Eastern Orthodox
66
9%
Non-Chalcedonian (Oriental Orthodox, Church of the East, etc.)
4
1%
Anglican/Episcopalian
36
5%
Lutheran or Reformed (including Calvinist, Presbyterian, etc.)
93
12%
Methodist
33
4%
Baptist
67
9%
Other Evangelical Protestant (Pentecostal, Charismatic, etc.)
55
7%
Restorationist (LDS Movement, Jehovah's Witness, etc.)
22
3%
Other Christian
101
14%
 
Total votes : 745

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:07 pm

Hakons wrote:
Eli Islands wrote:so if I eat pork I've committed a sin?


Here's a video by LutheranSatire on the topic the Old Law and what is carried over into the New Law. I'm not Lutheran and I think the creator can be too harsh on other Christian denominations, but I feel like this offers a basic analysis. It also shows you are following the same argumentative path of atheists, which is a bad sign for a professed Christian such as yourself.


The man was born to be a Roman Catholic, he just doesn't know it yet.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Eli Islands wrote:
Hakons wrote:
A "lot of people" may agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you are at odds with almost all present day Churches and Church orthodoxy dating back to the 1st century. If you are theologically at odds with almost a complete majority of Christendom, it is likely your theology is wrong.

so if I was protestant and didn't pray to saints you would consider my theology wrong because the vast majority of christians pray to saints


You don't have to pray to the saints. It is however highly advised.
Last edited by Tarsonis Survivors on Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Eli Islands wrote:
Hakons wrote:
A "lot of people" may agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you are at odds with almost all present day Churches and Church orthodoxy dating back to the 1st century. If you are theologically at odds with almost a complete majority of Christendom, it is likely your theology is wrong.

so if I was protestant and didn't pray to saints you would consider my theology wrong because the vast majority of christians pray to saints


No, because you don't have to pray to the saints.

You have to pray to God, but people pray to Saints for intercession, not as a replacement.
Last edited by Soldati Senza Confini on Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:13 pm

Eli Islands wrote:
Hakons wrote:
A "lot of people" may agree with you, but that doesn't change the fact that you are at odds with almost all present day Churches and Church orthodoxy dating back to the 1st century. If you are theologically at odds with almost a complete majority of Christendom, it is likely your theology is wrong.

so if I was protestant and didn't pray to saints you would consider my theology wrong because the vast majority of christians pray to saints


No, I myself am protestant and I don't pray for the intercession saints. I do recognize that there are saints, however. Also, the theology that many things are carried over from the Old Law is in Churches of all kinds, including most Protestant Churches. I'm Methodist if you didn't know.
“That word, ‘conservative,’ is understood by people in different ways. Suppose you say that when we did arithmetic, we learned that two plus two equals four. It’s still the same, so am I then ‘conservative’ for saying so?” - Cardinal Arinze

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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:17 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Hakons wrote:
Here's a video by LutheranSatire on the topic the Old Law and what is carried over into the New Law. I'm not Lutheran and I think the creator can be too harsh on other Christian denominations, but I feel like this offers a basic analysis. It also shows you are following the same argumentative path of atheists, which is a bad sign for a professed Christian such as yourself.


The man was born to be a Roman Catholic, he just doesn't know it yet.


The creator of the video, or me? :p

I'm definitely on the very conservative end of Protestantism, but I have yet to see why Catholicism is better than mainline Protestantism.
“That word, ‘conservative,’ is understood by people in different ways. Suppose you say that when we did arithmetic, we learned that two plus two equals four. It’s still the same, so am I then ‘conservative’ for saying so?” - Cardinal Arinze

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:27 pm

Hakons wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
The man was born to be a Roman Catholic, he just doesn't know it yet.


The creator of the video, or me? :p

I'm definitely on the very conservative end of Protestantism, but I have yet to see why Catholicism is better than mainline Protestantism.


Apostolic succession, being the one True Church, possesssing the the fullness of doctrine, faith, Sacred Tradition and the sacraments.

Just to name a few.
Last edited by Tarsonis Survivors on Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Hakons
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Founded: Jul 14, 2015
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:43 pm

Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Hakons wrote:
The creator of the video, or me? :p

I'm definitely on the very conservative end of Protestantism, but I have yet to see why Catholicism is better than mainline Protestantism.


Apostolic succession, being the one True Church, possesssing the the fullness of doctrine, faith, Sacred Tradition and the sacraments.

Just to name a few.


I've already discussed Apostolic succession a while back. Methodist pastors started out as Anglican, and Anglican priests started out as Catholic priests. Each generation was taught by the prior generation all the way back to the Apostles. Yes, the succession is not through one Church, but Methodism and its theologians still follow teachings and doctrine stretching back to the Apostles. I fail to see how this is functionally different if a Methodist pastor and Catholic priest still adhere to the Christ and the Apostles.

From a protestant perspective, it is difficult to say there is one True Church. There was a single Church in early Christianity, but since the schism it would be difficult to determine which Church to "return to."
“That word, ‘conservative,’ is understood by people in different ways. Suppose you say that when we did arithmetic, we learned that two plus two equals four. It’s still the same, so am I then ‘conservative’ for saying so?” - Cardinal Arinze

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Tarsonis Survivors
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Postby Tarsonis Survivors » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:49 pm

Hakons wrote:
Tarsonis Survivors wrote:
Apostolic succession, being the one True Church, possesssing the the fullness of doctrine, faith, Sacred Tradition and the sacraments.

Just to name a few.


I've already discussed Apostolic succession a while back. Methodist pastors started out as Anglican, and Anglican priests started out as Catholic priests. Each generation was taught by the prior generation all the way back to the Apostles. Yes, the succession is not through one Church, but Methodism and its theologians still follow teachings and doctrine stretching back to the Apostles. I fail to see how this is functionally different if a Methodist pastor and Catholic priest still adhere to the Christ and the Apostles.

From a protestant perspective, it is difficult to say there is one True Church. There was a single Church in early Christianity, but since the schism it would be difficult to determine which Church to "return to."


Apostolic succession is more than just a tracing of lineage, it's an authoritative succession. Succession of apostolic authority. When the Church of England left the Catholic Church, their Apostolic Succession was forfeited.

Also appeals to similarity, may have been arguable before the English Reformation, now not so much.


I should also point out though, that the RCC's view on the validity of Protestantism is complicated.
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Galatians 6:7 " Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
1 Corinthians 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
A. Lincoln: "My concern is not whether God is on our side, My greatest concern is to be on God's side."
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:10 pm

The Princes of the Universe wrote:
New Visayan Islands wrote:While decades away (so I pray), I would love to visit Jerusalem before I go. Other than that, I would like to be buried in Bohol, amidst my maternal forebears, with a funeral service akin to that of my late grandfather. Et tu?

I'm still working on the processional and offertory hymns, but I think I've got the other two down.
Communion: I Am the Bread of Life
Recessional: I Know That My Redeemer Lives

Anyone have any ideas as to good processional and offertory hymns? I seriously got nothin'.
Last edited by The Princes of the Universe on Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pro dolorosa Eius passione, miserere nobis et totius mundi.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti.
Domine Iesu Christe, Fili Dei, miserere mei, peccatoris.


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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:46 pm

Eli Islands wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Women are forbidden from holding religious authority over men, yes. This is one of the reasons women cannot be admitted to holy orders. It is the opinion of most theologians that women holding authority over men in general ought to be avoided except in the context of a mother over her son, however this is not always possible and is not a sin.
The passage says "yet she shall be saved through childbearing". AKA that a woman's first duty is as a wife and mother, or homemaker, when she has minor children. This fits in with the general Christian theme of observance of the duties of your state in life being the first religious duty; it's the same reason why parents are dispensed from their Sunday obligation if they have a sick child.

romans 16:1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. why does she get to be a deacon but no one else?
luke 8:1-3 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod’s household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.

None of those are positions of religious authority. Notably, Phoebe was a word- diakonissa- that would be better translated as servant.
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Angleter
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Postby Angleter » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:08 pm

New Visayan Islands wrote:
The Princes of the Universe wrote:Has anyone else thought about their, erm, final plans?

While decades away (so I pray), I would love to visit Jerusalem before I go. Other than that, I would like to be buried in Bohol, amidst my maternal forebears, with a funeral service akin to that of my late grandfather. Et tu?


I'd like a full-on trad Requiem, preferably set to Morales' Missa pro Defunctis. Then to have one of those big sarcophagus-like graves which people have to walk around in the cemetery. I appreciate that's incredibly vain of me, but you only die once.
Last edited by Angleter on Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:23 pm

Angleter wrote:
New Visayan Islands wrote:While decades away (so I pray), I would love to visit Jerusalem before I go. Other than that, I would like to be buried in Bohol, amidst my maternal forebears, with a funeral service akin to that of my late grandfather. Et tu?

I'd like a full-on trad Requiem, preferably set to Morales' Missa pro Defunctis. Then to have one of those big sarcophagus-like graves which people have to walk around in the cemetery. I appreciate that's incredibly vain of me, but you only die once.

I'm going for something simple and that puts the emphasis not on my being gone but that I'll be back with Him on the Last Day. As for my grave, that should also be simple. Small stone, name, dates, no frills.
Pro dolorosa Eius passione, miserere nobis et totius mundi.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti.
Domine Iesu Christe, Fili Dei, miserere mei, peccatoris.


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Venerable Bede
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Postby Venerable Bede » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:16 pm

Christ is risen!

Our priest quoted from a wonderful Coptic homily this Pascha, about the Palm Sunday bombings, and in it the Coptic priest thanked the bombers for reminding the Orthodox of the importantance of worship, and there are enemies both seen and unseen who want desperately to stop us. He also said "I love you" to the bombers.

Joy for this feast of all feasts! Exit the sorrow for sins, enter the joy of victory and forgiveness!
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The Path to Salvation
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The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning, but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth. (Ecclesiastes 7:4)
A sacrifice to God is a brokenspirit; a broken and humbled heart God will not despise. (Psalm 50:19--Orthodox, Protestant 51:19)
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (2 Corinthians 7:10)
And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you? (Luke 12:13-14)

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Grave_n_idle
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Postby Grave_n_idle » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:29 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
Which raises an interesting point. Should we still allow churches to conduct marriages, when they aren't interested in following the law?

Whatever happened to the whole thing about how no one was forcing you to participate in gay marriage ceremonies or infringing on religious liberty because churches would be unaffected?


What does that have to do with the comment I was replying to? UMN was saying that any religious people WITHIN the movement should be punished by the church for their religious liberty.

I didn't suggest, for a second, forcing churches to marry gay people - I just object to people being punished for doing what the church SAID they wanted - practicing religious freedom on the issue.

And they could still do weddings - they just wouldn't be allowed to do the marriage contract itself - their ceremonies would be ceremonial and not legally binding - exactly as it should be.
WASSER IST LEBEN

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The Princes of the Universe
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Postby The Princes of the Universe » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:54 pm

Venerable Bede wrote:Christ is risen!

He is truly risen! :hug:

Venerable Bede wrote:Our priest quoted from a wonderful Coptic homily this Pascha, about the Palm Sunday bombings, and in it the Coptic priest thanked the bombers for reminding the Orthodox of the importantance of worship, and there are enemies both seen and unseen who want desperately to stop us. He also said "I love you" to the bombers.
Joy for this feast of all feasts! Exit the sorrow for sins, enter the joy of victory and forgiveness!

May the Palm Sunday martyrs watch after us...
Pro dolorosa Eius passione, miserere nobis et totius mundi.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti.
Domine Iesu Christe, Fili Dei, miserere mei, peccatoris.


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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:03 pm

The Princes of the Universe wrote:
Venerable Bede wrote:Christ is risen!

He is truly risen! :hug:

Venerable Bede wrote:Our priest quoted from a wonderful Coptic homily this Pascha, about the Palm Sunday bombings, and in it the Coptic priest thanked the bombers for reminding the Orthodox of the importantance of worship, and there are enemies both seen and unseen who want desperately to stop us. He also said "I love you" to the bombers.
Joy for this feast of all feasts! Exit the sorrow for sins, enter the joy of victory and forgiveness!

May the Palm Sunday martyrs watch after us...


In a world hungering for revenge, may we always turn the other cheek. :blush:
“That word, ‘conservative,’ is understood by people in different ways. Suppose you say that when we did arithmetic, we learned that two plus two equals four. It’s still the same, so am I then ‘conservative’ for saying so?” - Cardinal Arinze

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:11 pm

Grave_n_idle wrote:
And they could still do weddings - they just wouldn't be allowed to do the marriage contract itself - their ceremonies would be ceremonial and not legally binding - exactly as it should be.


Basically just making marriage double expensive and complicated for minorities.
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Constantinopolis
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Postby Constantinopolis » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:53 pm

So, I'm a little late to the party here on the CDT, because it has been a very busy day for me in real life. Still, the day isn't over yet (at least in the time zone where I am now), so I will add my voice to the great chorus of those saying:

Christ is risen!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
!المسيح قام
Христос Воскресе!
Hristos a înviat!
ქრისტე აღსდგა!
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
Krishti u ngjall!
Kristus vstal z mrtvých!

Le Christ est ressuscité!
¡Cristo ha resucitado!
基督復活了!


Image

This is the Feast of Feasts, the Day of Resurrection, the New Passover, the greatest celebration of the Christian faith, the most important holiday of the year, the central focus of Orthodox liturgical life. This is the Lord's Pascha (Easter), and all other feasts revolve around it. This is the day when we celebrate the victory of Life over Death. Just as the Old Passover marked the liberation of the Old Israel (the Jewish people) from physical slavery in Egypt, the New Passover marks the liberation of the New Israel (the Christian people) from the spiritual slavery of sin. In the Old Covenant, Moses led his people out of Egypt and into the Promised Land. In the New Covenant, Christ leads His people out of Sheol (Hades) and into Heaven. Moses defeated the earthly power of Pharaoh; Christ defeats the spiritual power of Satan.

Through the death and resurrection of Christ, death itself is put to death. The gates of Sheol (Hades) are smashed, and the gates of Paradise are opened for the first time since the Fall of Adam. Christ is both the High Priest, and the Sacrificial Lamb offered on the altar. On the Cross, He offered Himself as a perfect sacrifice for the salvation of all. After death, His soul descended to Sheol (Hades), the realm of the dead, where the souls of all dead human beings had been trapped since the Fall of Man. Christ went there just as they did, because He was a man like them, fully human.

But He was not only fully human, He was also fully God. So He went down to Sheol, but when He arrived, God Himself arrived in the land of the dead - the realm which had previously been a place of separation from God. Therefore, the separation was abolished, and the radiant presence of God filled the land of the dead, and Sheol ceased to exist. From that day, all the dead were brought into the presence of God. For those who embraced it or will embrace it, this presence of God is called Heaven, and for those who reject it, it is called Hell.

Having done this, having brought all the righteous departed souls of the Old Testament into Heaven, the soul of Christ then returned to His body, and He rose from the dead, to announce and prefigure the future Bodily Resurrection of all the dead, which will happen at His Second Coming. For the moment, the souls of the dead do not have their bodies, but this situation is abnormal and temporary. To be a complete human being is to have a body as well as a soul. Therefore Christ returned to His body, and later ascended into Heaven in the body. And all the dead will be resurrected like Him and will be given new bodies before the Last Judgment.

Thus, rejoicing in the victory of Christ over death and sin, let us all sing:

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!
(Paschal Troparion)

There are many YouTube videos of Paschal hymns (some of them sung by professional choirs, others by average parish choirs), but here is a selection of some of my favourite ones:

Do Not Lament Me, O Mother (from the Paschal Nocturns; i.e. the first part of the Resurrection service. The video does a good job of conveying the atmosphere, as the church is kept dark and lit only by a few candles at this stage)
The Paschal Stichera ("Let God Arise"), probably my favourite hymn of all, sung by a parish choir
The Paschal Stichera ("Let God Arise"), same hymn as above, but sung by a professional choir - in my opinion this is the best performance on this list
The Paschal Canon ("It is the Day of Resurrection") in Greek and Slavonic (I couldn't find a complete English version on YouTube)
The Angel Cried (professional choir)
Some highlights of the Paschal service at a church in the US
Paschal Troparion repeatedly sung at the end of the Liturgy, first in English with different melodies, then in other languages
Paschal Troparion in many different languages, part 1
Paschal Troparion in many different languages, part 2

And finally, I would like to post the full text of the Paschal sermon of St. John Chrysostom, which is read every year during the Paschal service in place of having the parish priest deliver a regular sermon of his own. It really is absolutely brilliant:

If any man be devout and love God, let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast. If any man be a wise servant, let him rejoicing enter into the joy of his Lord. If any have labored long in fasting, let him now receive his recompense. If any have wrought from the first hour, let him today receive his just reward. If any have come at the third hour, let him with thankfulness keep the feast. If any have arrived at the sixth hour, let him have no misgivings; because he shall in nowise be deprived thereof. If any have delayed until the ninth hour, let him draw near, fearing nothing. If any have tarried even until the eleventh hour, let him, also, be not alarmed at his tardiness; for the Lord, who is jealous of his honor, will accept the last even as the first; he gives rest unto him who comes at the eleventh hour, even as unto him who has wrought from the first hour.

And he shows mercy upon the last, and cares for the first; and to the one he gives, and upon the other he bestows gifts. And he both accepts the deeds, and welcomes the intention, and honors the acts and praises the offering. Therefore, enter you all into the joy of your Lord; and receive your reward, both the first, and likewise the second. You rich and poor together, hold high festival. You sober and you heedless, honor the day. Rejoice today, both you who have fasted and you who have disregarded the fast. The table is full-laden; feast sumptuously, all of you. The calf is fatted; let no one go hungry away.

Enjoy ye all the feast of faith: Receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness. Let no one bewail his poverty, for the universal kingdom has been revealed. Let no one weep for his iniquities, for pardon has shown forth from the grave. Let no one fear death, for the Savior’s death has set us free. He that was held prisoner of it has annihilated it. By descending into Hell, He made Hell captive. He embittered it when it tasted of His flesh. And Isaiah, foretelling this, did cry: Hell, said he, was embittered, when it encountered Thee in the lower regions. It was embittered, for it was abolished. It was embittered, for it was mocked. It was embittered, for it was slain. It was embittered, for it was overthrown. It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains. It took a body, and met God face to face. It took earth, and encountered Heaven. It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen.

O Death, where is your sting? O Hell, where is your victory?
Christ is risen, and you are overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave!
For Christ, being risen from the dead, is become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. To Him be glory and dominion unto ages of ages. Amen.
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Communism is the logical conclusion of Christian morality. "Whoever loves his neighbor as himself owns no more than his neighbor does", in the words of St. Basil the Great. The anti-theism of past Leninists was a tragic mistake, and the Church should be an ally of the working class.
My posts on the 12 Great Feasts of the Orthodox Church: -I- -II- -III- -IV- -V- -VI- -VII- -VIII- [PASCHA] -IX- -X- -XI- -XII-

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 52531
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:20 pm

Constantinopolis wrote:So, I'm a little late to the party here on the CDT, because it has been a very busy day for me in real life. Still, the day isn't over yet (at least in the time zone where I am now), so I will add my voice to the great chorus of those saying:

Christ is risen!
Χριστός Ανέστη!
!المسيح قام
Христос Воскресе!
Hristos a înviat!
ქრისტე აღსდგა!
Chrystus zmartwychwstał!
Krishti u ngjall!
Kristus vstal z mrtvých!

Le Christ est ressuscité!
¡Cristo ha resucitado!
基督復活了!


(Image)

This is the Feast of Feasts, the Day of Resurrection, the New Passover, the greatest celebration of the Christian faith, the most important holiday of the year, the central focus of Orthodox liturgical life. This is the Lord's Pascha (Easter), and all other feasts revolve around it. This is the day when we celebrate the victory of Life over Death. Just as the Old Passover marked the liberation of the Old Israel (the Jewish people) from physical slavery in Egypt, the New Passover marks the liberation of the New Israel (the Christian people) from the spiritual slavery of sin. In the Old Covenant, Moses led his people out of Egypt and into the Promised Land. In the New Covenant, Christ leads His people out of Sheol (Hades) and into Heaven. Moses defeated the earthly power of Pharaoh; Christ defeats the spiritual power of Satan.

Through the death and resurrection of Christ, death itself is put to death. The gates of Sheol (Hades) are smashed, and the gates of Paradise are opened for the first time since the Fall of Adam. Christ is both the High Priest, and the Sacrificial Lamb offered on the altar. On the Cross, He offered Himself as a perfect sacrifice for the salvation of all. After death, His soul descended to Sheol (Hades), the realm of the dead, where the souls of all dead human beings had been trapped since the Fall of Man. Christ went there just as they did, because He was a man like them, fully human.

But He was not only fully human, He was also fully God. So He went down to Sheol, but when He arrived, God Himself arrived in the land of the dead - the realm which had previously been a place of separation from God. Therefore, the separation was abolished, and the radiant presence of God filled the land of the dead, and Sheol ceased to exist. From that day, all the dead were brought into the presence of God. For those who embraced it or will embrace it, this presence of God is called Heaven, and for those who reject it, it is called Hell.

Having done this, having brought all the righteous departed souls of the Old Testament into Heaven, the soul of Christ then returned to His body, and He rose from the dead, to announce and prefigure the future Bodily Resurrection of all the dead, which will happen at His Second Coming. For the moment, the souls of the dead do not have their bodies, but this situation is abnormal and temporary. To be a complete human being is to have a body as well as a soul. Therefore Christ returned to His body, and later ascended into Heaven in the body. And all the dead will be resurrected like Him and will be given new bodies before the Last Judgment.

Thus, rejoicing in the victory of Christ over death and sin, let us all sing:

Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life!
(Paschal Troparion)

There are many YouTube videos of Paschal hymns (some of them sung by professional choirs, others by average parish choirs), but here is a selection of some of my favourite ones:

Do Not Lament Me, O Mother (from the Paschal Nocturns; i.e. the first part of the Resurrection service. The video does a good job of conveying the atmosphere, as the church is kept dark and lit only by a few candles at this stage)
The Paschal Stichera ("Let God Arise"), probably my favourite hymn of all, sung by a parish choir
The Paschal Stichera ("Let God Arise"), same hymn as above, but sung by a professional choir - in my opinion this is the best performance on this list
The Paschal Canon ("It is the Day of Resurrection") in Greek and Slavonic (I couldn't find a complete English version on YouTube)
The Angel Cried (professional choir)
Some highlights of the Paschal service at a church in the US
Paschal Troparion repeatedly sung at the end of the Liturgy, first in English with different melodies, then in other languages
Paschal Troparion in many different languages, part 1
Paschal Troparion in many different languages, part 2

And finally, I would like to post the full text of the Paschal sermon of St. John Chrysostom, which is read every year during the Paschal service in place of having the parish priest deliver a regular sermon of his own. It really is absolutely brilliant:

If any man be devout and love God, let him enjoy this fair and radiant triumphal feast. If any man be a wise servant, let him rejoicing enter into the joy of his Lord. If any have labored long in fasting, let him now receive his recompense. If any have wrought from the first hour, let him today receive his just reward. If any have come at the third hour, let him with thankfulness keep the feast. If any have arrived at the sixth hour, let him have no misgivings; because he shall in nowise be deprived thereof. If any have delayed until the ninth hour, let him draw near, fearing nothing. If any have tarried even until the eleventh hour, let him, also, be not alarmed at his tardiness; for the Lord, who is jealous of his honor, will accept the last even as the first; he gives rest unto him who comes at the eleventh hour, even as unto him who has wrought from the first hour.

And he shows mercy upon the last, and cares for the first; and to the one he gives, and upon the other he bestows gifts. And he both accepts the deeds, and welcomes the intention, and honors the acts and praises the offering. Therefore, enter you all into the joy of your Lord; and receive your reward, both the first, and likewise the second. You rich and poor together, hold high festival. You sober and you heedless, honor the day. Rejoice today, both you who have fasted and you who have disregarded the fast. The table is full-laden; feast sumptuously, all of you. The calf is fatted; let no one go hungry away.

Enjoy ye all the feast of faith: Receive ye all the riches of loving-kindness. Let no one bewail his poverty, for the universal kingdom has been revealed. Let no one weep for his iniquities, for pardon has shown forth from the grave. Let no one fear death, for the Savior’s death has set us free. He that was held prisoner of it has annihilated it. By descending into Hell, He made Hell captive. He embittered it when it tasted of His flesh. And Isaiah, foretelling this, did cry: Hell, said he, was embittered, when it encountered Thee in the lower regions. It was embittered, for it was abolished. It was embittered, for it was mocked. It was embittered, for it was slain. It was embittered, for it was overthrown. It was embittered, for it was fettered in chains. It took a body, and met God face to face. It took earth, and encountered Heaven. It took that which was seen, and fell upon the unseen.

O Death, where is your sting? O Hell, where is your victory?
Christ is risen, and you are overthrown!
Christ is risen, and the demons are fallen!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life reigns!
Christ is risen, and not one dead remains in the grave!
For Christ, being risen from the dead, is become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. To Him be glory and dominion unto ages of ages. Amen.

That sermon made me almost cry. God bless St. John. :clap:
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. Not that I need the coffee, but you know... :3

So apparently I am an ENFP!

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"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Drakonisch
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 105
Founded: Mar 26, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Drakonisch » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:14 pm

Ok, I am new to religion (Atheist-turned-agnostic-turned-Catholic), so its natural I would have some questions (some being a grave understatement). Do you fine gentlemen mind answering them for me?

1. If I in the past outright doubted god and said things like "I don't believe in some god sitting on a throne in the clouds", is that considered blasphemy against the holy spirit?
2. What are the differences between the major branches/derivatives of Christianity?(ie Roman Catholic, Orthodox, etc.)
3. Do some bible verses contradict each other?
4. Is one single sin enough to send you to hell?
5. Who were the Apostles?
6. Will the Rapture really happen?

Just need those questions answered. And as for that sermon above, it was glorious. It took me a bit to understand it, but it was glorious. :clap:
Last edited by Drakonisch on Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm a Catholic whore, currently enjoying congress out of wedlock with my black Jewish boyfriend who works at a military abortion clinic. So, hail Satan, and have a lovely afternoon, madam." - Harry Hart

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This is gonna be one hell of a ride.

call me a zealous lunatic all you want, its amusing

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Grave_n_idle
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43029
Founded: Feb 11, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Grave_n_idle » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:30 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Grave_n_idle wrote:
And they could still do weddings - they just wouldn't be allowed to do the marriage contract itself - their ceremonies would be ceremonial and not legally binding - exactly as it should be.


Basically just making marriage double expensive and complicated for minorities.


Err, no?

If anything, cheaper and easier.
WASSER IST LEBEN

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Constantinopolis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7501
Founded: Antiquity
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Constantinopolis » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:29 am

Drakonisch wrote:Ok, I am new to religion (Atheist-turned-agnostic-turned-Catholic), so its natural I would have some questions (some being a grave understatement). Do you fine gentlemen mind answering them for me?

1. If I in the past outright doubted god and said things like "I don't believe in some god sitting on a throne in the clouds", is that considered blasphemy against the holy spirit?
2. What are the differences between the major branches/derivatives of Christianity?(ie Roman Catholic, Orthodox, etc.)
3. Do some bible verses contradict each other?
4. Is one single sin enough to send you to hell?
5. Who were the Apostles?
6. Will the Rapture really happen?

Just need those questions answered. And as for that sermon above, it was glorious. It took me a bit to understand it, but it was glorious. :clap:

Welcome to the Christian faith! Perfect timing, too. :) Christ is risen! I'd love to answer any questions you have. I'll start with some quick answers:

1. No, absolutely not. If anyone who denied or insulted God in the past were guilty of an unforgivable sin, who then could be saved? Many of the greatest saints started out in life as enemies of Christ and His Church. Your past sins can all be forgiven, through baptism, confession and communion with the Body and Blood of Christ.

2. Hahaha, that is a very complicated question and a huge can of worms. I'll just link you to an old post of mine where I covered the differences between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Bear in mind that Protestantism is radically different from both of these.

3. Only if you insist on interpreting them in a different way from how Christians actually interpret them. The people who claim that the Bible has contradictions are also claiming that Christians interpret the Bible wrong, and that the "correct" interpretation leads to contradictions. It's as if I took your favourite book and told you that you've been reading it wrong and that if you read it right you'll find out it actually sucks.

4. Maybe. It depends on the sin, and the person. We don't really know what is or isn't enough to send you to hell. God wasn't very specific. And it is better this way, because if we did know the exact standards, everyone would probably just do the bare minimum necessary to avoid hell. But since we don't know, we continually strive to combat all our sins and repent of them.

5. The Apostles were the closest companions of Christ and the leaders of the disciples of Christ. When the Holy Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost, they also became the first clergy of the Christian Church. The Apostles appointed successors known as bishops, and there has been an unbroken line of bishops from the Apostles to the present day - in the Orthodox Church, the Catholic Church and some others. This is called "apostolic succession".

6. No. The so-called "Rapture" is a weird 20th century invention that was created by mixing and matching random verses from different parts of the New Testament. There will be a Second Coming of Christ, and a Last Judgment and so on, of course, but the idea of the "Rapture" is utter nonsense.
The Holy Socialist Republic of Constantinopolis
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile." -- Albert Einstein
Political Compass: Economic Left/Right: -10.00 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.64
________________Communist. Leninist. Orthodox Christian.________________
Communism is the logical conclusion of Christian morality. "Whoever loves his neighbor as himself owns no more than his neighbor does", in the words of St. Basil the Great. The anti-theism of past Leninists was a tragic mistake, and the Church should be an ally of the working class.
My posts on the 12 Great Feasts of the Orthodox Church: -I- -II- -III- -IV- -V- -VI- -VII- -VIII- [PASCHA] -IX- -X- -XI- -XII-

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Dylar
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5421
Founded: Jan 07, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dylar » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:51 am

Out of all the days I could've been sick, I got sick on Holy Saturday. The day where I was supposed to serve the Easter Vigil Mass with the rest of the Knights of the Holy Temple. Oh well...
Last edited by Dylar on Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
St. Albert the Great wrote:"Natural science does not consist in ratifying what others have said, but in seeking the causes of phenomena."
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Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13130
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:25 am

Drakonisch wrote:Ok, I am new to religion (Atheist-turned-agnostic-turned-Catholic), so its natural I would have some questions (some being a grave understatement). Do you fine gentlemen mind answering them for me?

1. If I in the past outright doubted god and said things like "I don't believe in some god sitting on a throne in the clouds", is that considered blasphemy against the holy spirit?
2. What are the differences between the major branches/derivatives of Christianity?(ie Roman Catholic, Orthodox, etc.)
3. Do some bible verses contradict each other?
4. Is one single sin enough to send you to hell?
5. Who were the Apostles?
6. Will the Rapture really happen?

Just need those questions answered. And as for that sermon above, it was glorious. It took me a bit to understand it, but it was glorious. :clap:

1. No. This was blasphemy and must be confessed, but is not against the Holy Spirit(as a matter of fact, no one actually knows what blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is, and the pious guess is that it's final impenitence).
2. That's a complex question. I like to think of it in terms of infallibility; Catholicism believes that official pronouncements of the church, within certain conditions, are infallible. Orthodoxy believes this to only be the case within the context of an ecumenical council. Protestantism believes the only infallible pronouncement of the church was the bible. Fringe groups have much, much weirder interpretations.
3. No.
4. Potentially, yes. A single unrepented mortal sin is enough to bring damnation. Key word: unrepented.
5. The apostles were men chosen by Christ to carry on His work. Their authority continues today, uninterrupted, in Catholic bishops all over the world.
6. No. The rapture is not found in the bible, or in church tradition. It is a common pious tradition that there will be three days of darkness to mark the end times, during which only blessed candles will light. This is, however, not the official teaching of the church.
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Ashmoria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 46718
Founded: Mar 19, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ashmoria » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:33 am

Drakonisch wrote:Ok, I am new to religion (Atheist-turned-agnostic-turned-Catholic), so its natural I would have some questions (some being a grave understatement). Do you fine gentlemen mind answering them for me?

1. If I in the past outright doubted god and said things like "I don't believe in some god sitting on a throne in the clouds", is that considered blasphemy against the holy spirit?
2. What are the differences between the major branches/derivatives of Christianity?(ie Roman Catholic, Orthodox, etc.)
3. Do some bible verses contradict each other?
4. Is one single sin enough to send you to hell?
5. Who were the Apostles?
6. Will the Rapture really happen?

Just need those questions answered. And as for that sermon above, it was glorious. It took me a bit to understand it, but it was glorious. :clap:

why don't you talk to your priest about this? he will have answers that fit with the doctrines of your new faith.
whatever

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